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WHO Would Fly Korean? - The Stats!  
User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 822 posts, RR: 0
Posted (14 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1244 times:

With Korean Airlines having one of the worst air safety records and along with Mandarin/China Airlines of Taiwan, I was wondering who would fly on carriers such as these? It seems to me to be a case of having a death wish or living on the edge or maybe you just don't have any other option?

Safety Statistics! (1999)

Approx. 1,000 aircraft related incidents reported yearly.
10% indicate a high risk!
*WorldWide - 1 in 1 million (hull losses)

Western world - 3 in 10 million (hull losses)
Africa - 12 in 1 million (hull losses)
Asia - 1 in 1 million (hull losses)

I think the stats speak for themselves! If & when I fly I choose a carrier like: Ansett Australia, Qantas (although they are having a rough trot at present!), United, Air NZ, Cathay, British, KLM etc. I would always stay away from eastern bloc carriers, African (ex. SAA), Chinese, Taiwanese & Korean airlines.

What do you think?


Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRWally From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 555 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (14 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 943 times:

I definetly wouldn't! I heard that Korean Air couldn't fly internationally for a year, is this true?

User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 913 times:

RE: RWally,

No it's not quite true, the Korean government banned KAL from adding any new destinations for a year & they also had to trim back their domestic flights as well. Delta also pulled the plug on their code-share deal (through embarassment I think!), because everyone thinks KAL is so unsafe!

Regards



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineThai747 From United Kingdom, joined Jun 1999, 814 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 908 times:

Yep , I heard about not being able to add new destinations , my Korean friends in my school fly Thai or Singapore Airlines ( direct ) to Korea .. while my Taiwanese friend fly EVA.. I heard the prime minister of Taiwan also flies EVA !!!  

User currently offlineN949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 912 times:

Looks like Korean and China Airlines have a lot to do with boosting the average loss figures for the Asian region. I recall at least 10 hull losses (maybe more?) between the two of them over the past decade alone. So it works out to an average of one crash per year from either of them!!

Oh, by the way, if you are superstitious, consider this: several of China Airlines' fatal crashes over the past 20 years or so occurred on Feb. 16.

Just a thought!!!!!!!!!!!


User currently offlinePerthWA From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 920 times:

......Kidding!

I heard that at one stage they had lost there licence to fly into America because the US government didnt want to put there people at risk. And after that freighter crash at stansted, there was speculation that they would lose it again.
Does this have any truth


User currently offlineJaemz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 899 times:

Its a pity to know many of those beautiful KAL FAs have perished in the crashes

User currently offlineCedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7934 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 881 times:

All my cutlery is airline stuff, someone gave me a few sets of KAL. An airline friend saw them in the drawer and expressed surprise: "I didn't think anyone had ever lived to collect the full set!"

There are quite a few families that have lost more than one immediate relative in seperate KAL crashes (one flight attendant who died in the 007 shootdown was survived by her bro who was killed at Guam...there are a couple of other examples of this).

BTW, I'm back.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineB777 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 886 times:

Korean Air and China Airlines have a lot of work to do if they ever want to gain public confidences again (especially KAL). I have to agree with you that I would not choose these two airlines if I had a choice. However, it is not right to lay blames on other airlines (such as UNI AIR and Air China), who have fairly good safety records and service. Futhermore, keep in mind that the hull losses could be due to other factors such as weather or hijacking. Just my two cents

Regards

James


User currently offlineMason From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 748 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 887 times:

I know many people on this forum enjoy degrading KAL, and despite the stats, I enjoy KAL! Everyone seems to favor SIA or CX, but I have had better flights on KAL than those two! Even though I usually fly CX to HKG, I would not hesitate to fly KAL!

User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 873 times:

I don't feel that I am degrading KAL or CAL, however just stating the cold hard facts. You can't ignore their implorable safety record.
I should also say that EVA airlines of Taiwan as far as I know has a fairly good safety record, although isn't UNI Air in the EVA stable? I thought UNI Air had one of their MD90's crash or destroyed last year in Taipei????
And yes in relation to Air China, they do have a good safety record, however other airlines in China do not.
I still say, stick with the 'devil you know' and stay away from the dodgey airlines like KAL, CAL & even Asiana (remember Anchorage)!



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlinePratt-Whitney From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 869 times:

The facts:
KAL lost their status as a carrier able to fly US government flights. IE transport officials and troops to US airbases, Embassies, etc. They were given their approval to carry US gov charter flights earlier this year. Go to airwise.com they have a story in the Korean Airlines section about them getting reinstated.


User currently offlinePeteH From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 858 times:

I have flown over 25,000 miles with China Airlines in the past 15 months, and in April I will use them again for a return journey Amsterdam - Bangkok. OK, so they might have had safety related incidents in the past, but when you consider the amount of journeys operated by the company the chances of disaster are still very small. Many people on these postings seem to take great delight in criticising CAL, but they should also note that CAL has received safety accreditations from the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration and the European Joint Aviation Authorities. They also have an ISO-9002 certification. In Taiwan they have the National Laboratory accreditation certificate. Another point to consider is that CAL are contracted by many international airlines to perform A-, B-, C-, and D- class repairs on their planes, and have the capabilities to maintain 85 different types of aircraft.
I have no qualms about using China Airlines, but their reputation will always be tarnished whilst certain people keep thinking it is "cool" to lampoon them.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 851 times:

The Canadian government has threatened to ban Korean Air from ever flying into Canada(it flies into YVR and YYZ) if Korean Air doesn't improve itself or doesn't cooperate with safety inspectors.

Does the US have any threats to do something like this for scheduled passenger flights? I wouldn't be surprised.


User currently offlineJrlander From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 1104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 844 times:

I have flown KAL. In 1991, I flew them to Korea to attend the World Scouting Jamboree. They had wonderful service, and the flights were quite comfortable. With Delta and Air France helping them, I would have no fear of flying them again.



User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 836 times:

Whilst the mainly mentioned airlines in my original post (KAL & CAL) will always have their supporters, the stats speak for themselves. Pointed to these stats & major reasons for the related incidents are not just maintenance problems (although according to Flight Intl - the latest mishap for Korean Cargo at Penang was a trailing edge flap that came off on appraoch and whacked a hole in the rear of the fuselage & the Stansted crash has been blamed on a faulty horizon?? gauge in the cockpit). These asian airlines employ alot of ex military (mainly retired air force) pilots, who whilst may have been great fighter pilots in their heyday, find the transition to major commercial jet flying very difficult. Also the training that these airlines have in place has also been attacked by the US FAA & airlines like Delta for being outdated. They lack modern day techniques such as CRM (crew resource management) which test have shown vastly improve cockpit communication & therefore reduce the risk of accidents.

I am just pointing out the facts - not airline bashing! Besides I quite like the KAL livery, not their saftey record!



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlinePandora From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 833 times:

Not all Taiwanses carreis are bad.

Goog carriers are:

FAT
EVA


but not China Airlines


User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 826 times:

Here is a link where you can read the famous (infamous?) Korean Air saftey audit that was conducted of 747 "Classic" operations in 1998.

http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/aviation/korean_audit.htm

I strongly advise you read it, even though it's a long document, it's chilling and some of what goes on is amazing. I can't believe countries like the UK and the USA still allow this airline to fly it's passengers or fly through it's airspace. Especially given that KAL 747s have crashed in each country killing all on board (Guam and London-Standsted) These are not minor incidents!

(The link was provided by Lufthansa747 in a previous post, so I can't take any credir for it)

Regards
James


User currently offlineVH-BZF From Australia, joined Oct 1999, 822 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 824 times:

All I can say is 'Safety First' (An Ansett Australia corporate goal), should be adopted by every airline, in every facet of their operation! From the ramp to the cabin & cockpit - peoples lives depend on it!

Thanks for your contributions!



Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
User currently offlineAirbus A3XX From Australia, joined May 1999, 507 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 816 times:

Also a good Taiwanese airline: TransAsia Airlines
Regarding the incident of UNI Air MD-90, it is most likely caused by the bringing of prohibited items onto the flight. So that's nothing deal with the airline


User currently offlineTca256 From Belgium, joined Dec 1999, 729 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 811 times:

VH-BZF, please write about things you know and leave
it alone about things you totally ignore !! Have you ever
flown or know about SAA ??? I think their safety rate
and aircraft maintenance can easily compete with
all Western standards !! ok I can agree that I wouldn't
fly with ex-USSR local companies but have you ever
flown with LOT (polish airlines) before writing such
post ?? I think that the Qualiflyer group wouldn't allow
"flying coffins" to join the alliance if your words were true about Eastern European airlines...!! That's the
same about Taiwanese airlines...ok some are pretty
bad but not all of them: you should remember that EVA
Air is a very reliable company !! Saying for example that
taiwanese companies are bad because one company
among others is bad...it's totally nonsense !!


User currently offlineBY285A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 798 times:

I couldnt agree more about not flying with Korean. Personally, I would rather walk on my knees through the Sahara rather than fly over it with them! I wonder how many lives they are responsible for ending?? It doesn't bear thinking about, does it?

User currently offlineTHG From Germany, joined Jul 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 804 times:

Referring to airsafe.com, KE has an accident rate of 5.38, while AeroPeru has 16.7 and Cubana even 24.0 (more than 5 times as dangerous as Korean).
In the US only AirTran/ValueJet (5.88) seems to be less trustworthy than KE.
So, would you fly one of Cubana's antique DC-10, F-27 or IL-62 ?


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12326 posts, RR: 35
Reply 23, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 790 times:

I've always been a little bit skeptical about accident rates, largely because a small, but good airline, which is unlucky enough to have a crash can be tagged as unsafe. Lauda Air and Ethiopian Airlines are two very good airlines - small carriers which suffered losses in situations where they were not at fault. On the other hand, an airline like Asiana, which might do quite well because it has very few accidents - certainly not fatal ones, is hardly to be considered safer than Lauda (by some accounts, it's an accident waiting to happen.)

China Airlines, I think, is worthy of being given a second chance because it has taken many steps, long before the HKG incident, to improve its record. Personally, I think Korean Air is going to have more accident before it finally recognises the depth of its problem.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12326 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (14 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 785 times:

By the way, did you know that there's no Korean equivalent of the phrase "the most dangerous part of a pilot's job is the drive to the airport".

25 VH-BZF : Dear TCA256, this is just a discussion topic, so please don't take it so personally! Yes there are many other airlines with disgraceful safety records
26 VH-BZF : Dear TCA256, this is just a discussion topic, so please don't take it so personally! Yes there are many other airlines with disgraceful safety records
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