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AA And St. Louis  
User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

I was just wondering on what AA plans on doing with St. Louis. That was the old hub of TWA, and do they plan on keeping STL as a hub? I would imagine with ORD and DFW they have enough hubs in the midwest and all STL probobly does is increase their cost structure. I was thinking STL could be used for a variety of short and regional flights. Anyone have any info if AA has discussed this at all and what their plans may be.

28 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIronchain15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

I am taking a flight from MCI to IND tomorrow through STL and one from SNA to MCI through STL in November. As far as I know, AA will probably keep STL for a while because they pretty much dominate STL. I heard they were going to cut some flights and have most connections go through DFW or ORD, but personally, I would rather connect through STL because it is not as busy as the other two hubs.


User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1880 times:

It could really be anything. I think AA has not given a lot of thought to it as there are so many aspects of the merger that they have to deal with and STL really comes down to the route system, so that will eventually be addressed. Supposedly, American started STL-YVR service about a month ago.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineMatt D From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 9502 posts, RR: 48
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1879 times:

AA will probably keep STL for a while because they pretty much dominate STL

Based on history, that is a very weak barometer reading on what's to come.

Not once, but twice, AA had a chance to take over the West Coast, with AirCal and Reno Air, and lots of very lucrative slots in and out of SJC, SNA, SFO, as well as ONT, LAX, and RNO.

And look what happened. They managed to flush it down the drain both times.

So don't hold your breath.



User currently offlineTWAalltheway From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 144 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 1845 times:

If AA plans on doing anything, they should seriously reconsider the STL expansion program and layout, and demolish the existing terminal layout. It just doesn't work. And pretty much everyone who's flown through STL once or twice knows how cramped it can get.

According to the STL expansion website, they say that there are no plans for terminals in Phase 1, but Phase 2 calls for terminal "renovation", not replacement. The current terminal design cannot be expanded further, and its already cramped. It won't work for future route expansion either.

I used to give credit to STL because of TWA being a major there, but now, as I took a flight recently through there, I decided that STL needs a new design.


If you want to see an efficient airport design, take a flight through PIT. One heck of a nice airport.

TWA all they way


User currently offline738_Driver From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 75 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 1817 times:

Blink....

You're wrong when say that you think that AA has not given a lot of thought to the future of STL. There has been plenty of thought put into it and how it fits into the route system with both ORD and DFW.

MattD....

What lucrative slots are you talking about? SJC, LAX, ONT, SFO and RNO do not follow slot allocations. Additionally, all the SNA slots allocated to QQ when AA purchased them are still in AA hands and are being used under the use 'em or lose 'em rule. Additionally, what exactly do you think AA flushed down the drain on the left coast this time around? A hub in RNO? AA didn't buy QQ for the RNO hub but rather the assets it provided. Yes, the aircraft are gone, but the purchase was intended on using those aircraft short term until they could be replaced.


User currently offlinePenguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 984 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1786 times:

Hey Ironclad, where did you hear that they were going to put more connections through DFW and ORD?

I read some of their 10K report and they have the hub profiles on AMR.com. STL is intended to be relief for east west domestic traffic, nothing more. It will be easier when AA can reschedule the routes here so that they can make STL into an efficient airport. They only got 350000 sq feet of space to work with, compared to DFW which has 3 million sq ft.

STL should fit nicely into AA's plan. TWA couldn't make it efficient because of how many aircraft they had to cram in there. Take out the AA Connection, lose some redundant flights and this airport will be much much better.


User currently offlineNwa757300 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 299 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks ago) and read 1782 times:

It was my understanding that STL serves a big purpose as an overflow hub for ORD. They wanted STL because expansion is so tough out of ORD. STL gives them an option to expand and offer people more options for connections. STL is a much bigger market than RNO or BNA ever were. I think it will take a while but AA will make it work. It's too big of a market to give up.

User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2271 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1757 times:

I read that this fall, American Airlines will reduce the number of banks operated in St. Louis from 12 to 10, resulting in the loss of a little over 20 mainline flights. Apparently it's due to the continued lack of business travel.

There has been a lot of speculation concerning the future of the STL hub. I personally don't see why it can't coexist with American's other hubs in ORD and DFW. Many of the posts about this topic all seem to predict that STL will become more of a transit hub, relying mostly on connecting passengers, opening up more seats for lucrative O&D routes into Chicago. Also, STL would serve as a reliever to ORD. I guess the people in the Dallas Metroplex will make the ultimate decision.


User currently offlineCba From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 4530 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 1756 times:

ORD doesn't have much room for growth. United has dealt with this by expanding at Denver, and is making that a very large East-West hub. If AA is smart, they will do the same thing with STL.

User currently offlineDeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1637 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

I think the future has arrived. Basically, all east/west low yield traffic is going throught STL and all high yield O&D is coming out of DFW and ORD. If you go to AA.com and look at a schedule for a city pair-say LAX/SFO/SEA to IND/CLE/DCA, you will find that ALL listings are through STL. It is impossible to get a fare quote through DFW or ORD.

User currently offlineSjc>sfo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

very true... you can actually see it while booking flights. I managed to get SJC-STL-RDU-STL-SJC for $275, while through Dallas or Chicago it was over $350.

User currently offlineAirworthy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1688 times:

Some of the reason for fares being lower through St. Louis are because of the lower unit costs of the currently isolated ex-TWA operation.

It's nice that AA can funnel low-yield transcon traffic thru STL, like a grandma flying from BNA to SMF, rather than having her ass take a seat that could potentially be used for a last-minute business man on a flight through Chicago, which has better facilities and connections.


User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

Right, I think STL can be successful as a low-yield hub but the question is for how long.

Remember how AA left its east-coast mini-hub in the lurch? THAT is what concerns me.



Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1668 times:

I guess STL will be used as a reliever hub, which is probably a good move. DFW, where AA probably has 60-70 gates is starting to get a little crowded right now. I won't even discuss Chicago as it is pretty much packed to the brim. Last I heard, one of the bigger reasons AA bought TWA was due to the St. Louis hub.

Does anybody know whether STL will see any longhauls other than the LGW flight? Maybe a flight to SCL to connect to LAN's hub? What about a ZRH flight to meet up with Swiss?

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineAA-STL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1647 times:

I would have to say that SCL and ZRH are VERY doubtful

User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 1594 times:

AA-STL:
I chose those two because Santiago is home of LAN Chile(AA partner and Oneworld member). Zurich is the home of SWISS(AA partner, future Oneworld member?) If anything, I think CDG gets added next.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32183 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1575 times:

blink182, there isn't even any ORD-SCL flights. CDG was already dropped and there are no signs that it is returning. It was downgraded to seasonal and then AA decided just to cancel it all together.


a.
User currently offlineAA-STL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 1519 times:

I know that, but I am just saying they are doubtful due to no CDG or FRA flight.............And STL is not going to be used as an international gateway

User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 1479 times:

AA-STL,
I never said it was  Smile

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 1466 times:

I am an air traffic controller and this topic is very important to me because I am seriously contemplating a move to STL. I am 99.9% sure this is where I am going next and feel pretty good about the amount of traffic that will be there for some time. Consider this-

In the huge transcontential (connecting) market United now has the same cramped hub (ORD)to deal with and American now has three, giving the business traveler who has experianced the O'hare situation even more options.

Just like has been said in a previous post, I also think the STL hub will continue as a reliever for both hubs. I flew DFW-ACT last week. A 23 minute flight (scheduled for 50 minutes), departing terminal A and using runway 18R for take off (not a long taxi). We didnt sit in a very long line but we still got to Waco about 5 minutes late. As big as DFW is, it hampers the aircraft utilization rate.

STL, even with its close, side by side runways can move some serious taffic on, even a marginal VFR day, using the LDA approach.

Comparing STL to the west coast is a little off (In my opioin) because of the low cost competetion from some very established carriers like SWA and Alaske, then of corse there is United. STL has the potential to pull from every region of the country. If the cost structure of USAir was right I think they could of made BWI and PHL work at the same time. The catchment areas for STL and ORD are much bigger (meaning the whole country) and with the right A/C, schedualing and an appropriate cost structure I dont see why this wont work.



User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Atcboy73- You have some good points there, and I think everybody agrees that American will continue to be #1 at STL.

When will AA give the STL crews the opportunity to move to another crew base? I know they will get this opportunity, but does anybody know when?

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1446 times:

FLYCMH

I am wondering where you read that AMR is going to drop 2 banks?

I know you said in your post that they would do this this fall. But it kinda surprises me because they just reinstated the 10:30pm bank.


User currently offlineFlyCMH From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 2271 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1432 times:

I read the information on the USAviation.com message boards.

User currently offlineAtcboy73 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1100 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 1431 times:

FLYCMH

Thanks, Ill check it out.


25 738_Driver : Banks 11 and 12 will be dropped with the remaining banks spread out to get a better bank timing effective August 1st.
26 Boiler Special : The latest bank east (9PM) and latest bank west (1030PM) aren't the hottest performers and were really only there for aircraft utilization purposes. W
27 Adam84 : I am quite thankful for the STL hub right now. I am moving back home on July 13th and I missed the 14 day advance purchase. While fares out of SJC/SFO
28 OzarkD9S : What I can forsee is a tweaking of schedules allowing virtual "shuttle connections" through hundreds of city pairs utilizing all 3 hubs. Imagine the A
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