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How Can An Aircraft Like This Be Allowed To Fly?  
User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

Look at the holes in the rudder...

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Egon Johansen



18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKHI747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1616 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3597 times:

Look more like stains then holes to me...but i do agree that planes should be in tip top condition as many peoples lives depend on that...infact im flying myself today from Boston to Zurich on SWISS.

User currently offline'Longreach' From Australia, joined Jul 2001, 505 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3577 times:

Take a look at the rudder trim tab! They are no stains!

User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 3574 times:

Nope! That is definately not stains. Here´s the rest of the plane:

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Colin Abbott


Should not be allowed into the air in my opponion.


User currently offlineN766ua From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8307 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3525 times:

It looks like one of those rusted up old salty ocean freighters... with wings.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3527 times:

They are certainly holes.
I find it odd that stains can match the clouds in the background perfectly  Smile

I think I'd find another aircraft if possible.

Cheers,

Justin


User currently offlineShaun3000 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3516 times:

So long as it does not affect the planes ability to fly safely. Also, it appears that the holes are only on the trim tabs which do not add much to the aerodynamics of the rudder. And it's only two small holes, not a giant chunk.

User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3015 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3498 times:

Put a fresh coat of paint and a new trim tab on there, and you'd never know it was so old. Looks can be decieving.


Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlinePhilB From Ireland, joined May 1999, 2915 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

Can't see any holes in the rudder. The fabric at the bottom of the trim tab is missing. How do you know that this didn't happen on the flight immediately before this shot was taken - or that the aircraft hasn't been in ground storage and will be repaired before flight?

There is no reason to believe, on the evidence you present, that the aircraft would fly again before repair.

Even if it did, the results would hardly be catastrophic although if it were allowed to fly on a continuing basis there would be good reason to question the standards of the operator.

Many large proppellor aircraft were constructed with fabric covered moving surfaces and are certificated to fly safely with a percentage missing. Think back to WW 2 and the bombers that safely returned home with far bigger holes than this.


User currently offlineLY744 From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 5536 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3328 times:

Good thing your opinion doesn't matter to anyone! I'm surprised you're freaking out over this, I guess you haven't seen that many An-12's, have you?

LY744.



Pacifism only works if EVERYBODY practices it
User currently offlineTR From UK - England, joined May 2001, 953 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3299 times:

LY744: I am not sure weather to laugh or cry - perhaps you could be of some assistance?

User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

LY744 - I'd be freaking out over it - if these holes are acceptable then what else is?.. regardless of whether it's truly a safety hazard. Even if it happened on the previous flight the aircraft should have been fixed before continuing on, if only for the psychological security of the passengers.. This tells me the airline either has no money to maintain it's aircraft, or doesn't care enough to do so, or doesn't care what it's passengers think about flying on old and potentially unsafe aircraft... ie: hardly anything that builds confidence in the airline. Maybe in their market this is considered normal, I don't know.. but if it's Europe or North America I'd hate to think that major carriers could get away with something like this.

User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3242 times:

Even if it happened on the previous flight the aircraft should have been fixed before continuing on, if only for the psychological security of the passengers.

Huh? The An-12 is a tactical freighter aircraft. That means NO passengers.

The An-12, as PhilB mentioned is designed to allow for this.


User currently offlineCaribb From Canada, joined Nov 1999, 1639 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3226 times:

Aviatsiya.ru - I was referring to a passenger jet in the same condition. Don't get me wrong, I[m not knocking the quality of the aircraft type or manufacturer.. just any plane in this condition by any airline. Every plane, it properly maintained can be safe, secure and useful for it's owner be it a freight or passenger airline.

User currently offlineBroke From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 1322 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3192 times:

The only ones on a freighter are usually the crew. It isn't like there will be people on this airplane!! Gee whiz.  Yeah sure With the tab running the full trailing edge of the rudder, I'd be interested in knowing if it is a control tab. Meaning that it moves and then the rudder moves. MMMMMmmmm

User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8018 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

If you want to see lots of examples of barely flyable old Antonov freighters, go to Sharjah, where you see An-12's (and even sometimes An-8's!) that are registered in flags of convenience of some African countries.

However, given the marginal safety record of these second-hand planes, no wonder why many African countries have banned them. If I were the Russians I would enter into agreements with African countries and sell them Il-114's and the IRAN-140 to Africa right now just to get rid of these old rustbuckets.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3010 times:

What a collection of apologists on this thread!

This certified P*o*S belongs in a junkyard. If holes in the rudder are acceptable to those getting into this crate and flying it, what can't you see that's acceptable too?

And those pointing out it's cargo and doesn't carry passengers .....only the crew is taking their lives into their own hands. The crew.....and every poor soul who lives under the flight path.

"Fairness" in commerce to help the CIS countries to a more prosperous future should not include endangering lives.


User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 2939 times:

If you want to see lots of examples of barely flyable old Antonov freighters, go to Sharjah, where you see An-12's (and even sometimes An-8's!) that are registered in flags of convenience of some African countries.

The An-8s are actually not even allowed to fly in Russia. Their authorities have deemed it to be an unsafe aircraft. And guess who is flying them out of Sharjah? Although the airline name might change, you can be guaranteed it is Victor Butthead.  Wink/being sarcastic

What a collection of apologists on this thread!

Apologists?

Or should that be "what a collection of people who actually have some notion of what they are talking about"??  Laugh out loud

This certified P*o*S belongs in a junkyard. If holes in the rudder are acceptable to those getting into this crate and flying it, what can't you see that's acceptable too?

There are no holes in the rudder. Read PhilB's post again.

And those pointing out it's cargo and doesn't carry passengers .....only the crew is taking their lives into their own hands. The crew.....and every poor soul who lives under the flight path.

Go and read up on the history of the An-12, and you will see that a bit of fabric missing isn't going to endanger the aircraft. It isn't uncommon for you to have seen An-12s which have used masking tape to fix such problems....this was a necessity due to the aircraft being operated to hundreds of different airfields around the Soviet Union where there were no maintenance bases or crews.

Think outside the box of all-metal Boeing and Airbus flying computers, and realise that whilst it might not look good to some that the Soviets knew what they were doing when they designed these aircraft.

This reminds me of the old story of NASA, when realising that a normal ink pen would not work in space due to zero gravity, spending millions of dollars and thousands of man hours developing a "space-age" pen which would be able to write in free-flowing ink in space conditions. The Soviets also facing the same problem saved themselves millions of dollars by using a pencil.

Whilst the above "story" is an urban legend, the actual idea behind it rings true.


User currently offlineTrident From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 484 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 2859 times:

Whatever about the pencil story, NASA did develop a special electric razor for the Apollo crews. It sucked up the bristles to prevent them floating around the cabin in zero-G. Most astronauts preferred wet shaves!

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