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No More PIT-MDW On AirTran  
User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3204 posts, RR: 6
Posted (12 years 3 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2032 times:

AirTran will stop flying from PIT to MDW on Sept. 3. US Airways will start the service on Sept. 8. After years of whining from locals about US dominating the PIT market, AirTran came in with low fares to ATL, MDW, LGA, and PHL. But the locals did not support low fares, and all that's left from AirTran is ATL. I hope the people around here will stop whining about US Airways and start to support them, because they're all we'll ever have. No AirTran, no Southwest, no jetBlue.


FLYi
16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2002 times:

What's wrong with people? PIT's saga sure sounds familiar (a la Toledo earlier this year).

joe


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 20 hours ago) and read 1979 times:

What's wrong with people is one thing: US Airways Frequent-flyer miles. Corporate travelers in Pittsburgh are as addicted to FF miles as any crack addict is to his drug. The corporate travel departments, who buy these guys' tickets, ought to know better. All they're doing is subsidizing US Airways' outrageous cost structure.

In other cities, low-fare carriers are making better inroads with business travelers. But PIT has such a strong historic tie to US Airways, and the fliers probably have so many US miles racked up, that no low-fare carrier will make a serious dent in that market while US exists. The funny thing is, that the corporate travel depts could probably save so much money using AirTran that they could buy their road warriors tickets to Hawaii or wherever else they want to go as a reward, and still save the company a lot of money.

Things will be shaken up in Pittsburgh next year when US goes under. Not only is the PIT hub almost certain not to be picked up by another Cartel carrier, but Southwest will probably touch down at PIT before the last US engine has cooled off.

The people I feel sorry for is US Airways employees--their management and unions foolishly maintained a high cost structure for two decades while WN was safely distant, and did not prepare for the future. Now low-fare reality has arrived in the Northeast, and they will all need to get jobs at other airlines, many of them in other cities.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 1946 times:

As a corporate traveler, I resent the implication that it's just all about the miles. It's also about the level of service and convienence that elite members who fly all the time get. I can't speak to the US program, but I can tell you that I am an AA Elite, and that means for me:

1) I can spend less time waiting in line to check in, and often (many airports) at security. That's often worth an hour, IMO, and that hour can add up, meaning I can stay with a client an hour longer, or get up an hour later.

2) If I need to get a lot done on the plane, or am just really beat, I can upgrade to first class at a reasonable cost.

While those things may not sound important to someone who flies every couple of months on leisure, to someone who may be on a couple of different flights in a single week, they add up!

Steve


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 1942 times:

Steve:

Actually, some of the things you describe may not be far off in the future at low-fare carriers, especially AirTran which has more of a business focus. One can already upgrade to business--equivalent to first--for $25 on AirTran. And AirTran will buy FF fliers tickets on any airline, to any destination, that AirTran does not serve.

As Don Carty said yesterday to AA employees, "the Wal Mart factor" is taking over--"consumers can't or won't pay more for the extra amenities we offer." He said that AA will continually shed employees over the coming years to resize itself for the new shape of air travel in the US.

Low-fare carriers, I think, will be able to offer certain amenities as they assume a greater proportion of domestic medium-to-high-density air travel. At larger airports, such as BWI, it would not be a major cost factor for WN to set aside a couple of its 8 or 10 Concourse B security checkpoints for walk-up and high-FF mile travelers.

Southwest has already started re-outfitting its planes with leather seats, in recognition that JetBlue has raised the service bar some for low-fare carriers. For now, it's unlikely that either WN or B6 will offer a first class like AirTran does, but I think as they assume more traffic, that possibility can't be ruled out.

Airport-run business clubs such as Manchester's Granite Club will probably become more common, should the number of Cartel-airline business clubs decline. Airlines and airports will ensure that business travelers will have amenities if the market demands them. The question is, how to provide them in an affordable manner that doesn't drive fares higher for all of us who aren't flying on expense accounts, and who do need to watch our spending.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineCcrlR From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 2236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 1935 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Too Bad. That's how it was when they went to MSP and then Northwest Airlines went there from MDW. Now what's going to happen now? I hope AirTran doesn't drop out completely and Delta rule the MDW-ATL route.


"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
User currently offlinePgh234 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 795 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 17 hours ago) and read 1930 times:

I cant believe that AirTran is not going to even put up a fight on the PIT-MDW market. Since day one PIT-MDW has been almost...if not just as succussful as PIT-ATL. They just added a third flight not too long ago. They have been serving the PIT-MDW route long enough that they should have a fairly loyal following of travelers. Ohh well, I guess they need the planes somewhere else since they gave up on PIT as a focus city. But still, I dont see how Wichita-MDW could generate the same traffic as PIT-MDW.

pgh234


User currently offlineATCT From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2298 posts, RR: 38
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 1903 times:

Question for you,
Where do YOU HAVE the authority to say that the locals do not support low fares. Believe it or not, AirTran has actually come as a welcome in Pittsburgh. But you must also remember that UAL, US Airways, AND American Airlines operate on the PIT-Chicago route. People in Pittsburgh love low fares, its just we go for the lower ones. US Airways, because of its size, can afford to lose money on a route, in order to shut down the route to a smaller airline (they are dumb like a fox!). I am from Pittsburgh and have flown AirTran since they came to PIT many times, but I can tell you one thing, even if there are lower fares, Pittsburgh's are more likely to support the airline that is the largest private employer in Allegheny County (thats our county), than an airline that is new and employs maybe 100. This is not saying we dont like lower fares, its just support US Airways supports the local economy. Nothing against AirTran (Its my fav. airline), But people are gonna support the company's that will in turn help their local area!

ATCT



"The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing." - Walt Disney
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 14 hours ago) and read 1894 times:

Jim:

Actually, I believe that the configuration of the new AA 737-800's is a clue to the direction AA is going to be taking (the right one, in my mind).

Specifically, the new 738's have 20 F seats (operating F20Y114), as compared to the old standard 757's, which run F22Y144. Specifically, AA is moving towards making upgrades easier and more enticing to hold the businessman, who, like myself, often can use the hours in the air in a productive manner with a laptop or a sketch pad -- something that's harder to do in Y unless you are very slight of stature.

I learned the 'hard way' about liking benefits and keeping them current; it's a main reason for not diffusing my efforts.

I will say, though, in some ways, with WN's new "boarding cards all the way through" I'm pondering just buying two seats all the time and using them -- I think I'll let the service percolate a bit more, though.

Steve


User currently offlinePitrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3204 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 1859 times:

Answer for you,
PIT has had high fares for years; people drove to CLE because of it; finally a good low fare airline moves in (AirTran); but instead of giving them continued support, people would not give up their US FF miles; AirTran 717s left the gate with only 30 people and no profits; AirTran discontinues service. The locals did not support the airline that came in with low fares. No one needs any AUTHORITY to figure this one out.

All AirTran asked for was for the Pittsburgh community to fly them some of the time instead of always on US Airways. But the backwards thinking people in Pittsburgh (who hate change) would not go for it. I like Pittsburgh as much as anyone, it's a great city, but the people here are so set in their old crusty ways and thinking it's pathetic! The city is about 10 years behind the rest of the country.

I like US Airways a lot, and it's good that they are Allegheny County's largest employer. Like I said in the original post, I hope people here stop complaining about them, because if they continue to lose money the way they are, then they WONT be able to afford to lose money on a route to fend off the smaller carriers.



FLYi
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3413 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 1857 times:

how is airtran doing at phl? how are the loads? are any routes endangered of being discontinued? or are any new routes possible?
thanks


User currently offlineFokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 8 hours ago) and read 1848 times:

Most people don't understand that Pittsburgh just doesn't generate a lot of local traffic. It's difficult for an airline to operate if nobody wants to go anywhere. There are people who have never been beyond the tunnels, and I have relatives in West Mifflin who have never been to the airport because it is too far away.
Pit will never generate traffic until the Burghers realize that there is more to the world than the 3 rivers. When I drive to work at the airport from Ohio everyday, the worst part is traveling through the time zones. In Ohio it's 6:00 am, in Pa. it's summer 1960. Ed Sullivan is still on KDKA, and the Pirates & Stillers (Steelers) are still champions.

DCA-ROCguy
USAir is the 7th largest airline. We as mechanics are the 7th highest paid in the industry. So, what is so terrible about our union costs???? If I do have to take a pay cut. I will get a second job to support my family. I just hope that when I'm dead tired or have other things on my mind (like paying bills), that you are not on the flight where I make a critical mistake that kills everyone on board. Is your life worth a $25 super saver??????????????????????????


User currently offlineUPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 871 posts, RR: 3
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1814 times:

I seem to recall many years ago that United was increasing their presence @ PIT but the Allegheny County commissioners office caused so many problems for United that United pulled most of the flights out of PIT. This was back when U.S. Airways was Allegheny.

There was another lowcost airline that had set up a hub @ PIT around the early to mid nighties and U.S. Airways contacted local and Federal officials and made sure they had their certificate pulled alledging faulty maintenance documentation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that U.S. Airways supplies most of the revenue to PIT and a lot of tax dollars to the region. I wouldn't doubt they had something to do with this. I just wished the county would look at the big picture. If U.S. Airways continues their downward spiral, where will the money come from then?? The airport would be a ghosttown. PIT needs carriers such as Southwest, Airtran and one of my favorites Jet Blue


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1784 times:

DCA-ROCguy USAir is the 7th largest airline. We as mechanics are the 7th highest paid in the industry. So, what is so terrible about our union costs???? If I do have to take a pay cut. I will get a second job to support my family. I just hope that when I'm dead tired or have other things on my mind (like paying bills), that you are not on the flight where I make a critical mistake that kills everyone on board. Is your life worth a $25 super saver??????????????????????????

Ask Southwest mechanics, they'd probably know the answer. There's been one strike at WN in its whole history, which lasted all of two days, in 1980 I think it was. Employees at WN seem quite happy to work there, and WN has never had a fatality as we all know. I fly quite confidently on low-fare carriers, which meet all the same Federal standards and FAA regulations as the Cartel does. The lie that somehow low-fare carriers are unsafe, is a convenient Cartel lie that fortunately doesn't fool consumers.

Specifically, the new 738's have 20 F seats (operating F20Y114), as compared to the old standard 757's, which run F22Y144. Specifically, AA is moving towards making upgrades easier and more enticing to hold the businessman, who, like myself, often can use the hours in the air in a productive manner with a laptop or a sketch pad -- something that's harder to do in Y unless you are very slight of stature.

That makes sense. Carty is playing to one of AA's strengths, as he should. The Cartel-network carriers offer regional service, international service, and greater amenities--if they're going to lose cost-minded passengers, might as well play to higher-paying pax. People that are willing to pay more should get more. Those of us who don't need enough space to use a laptop comfortably should get lower fares with our coach seating.

In terms of overall volume, AA and the other network carriers will probably be smaller in coming years, but if they treat those who do pay for their benefits well, that will no doubt be welcomed by the pax. Although we'll probably see the low-fare carriers do more for business pax in coming years, the Cartel will probably still be able to offer greater amenities due to higher yield.

Jim




Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6616 posts, RR: 24
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

In regard to the AA738's, it has already been announced internally at AA that the 738's will be reconfigured with only 16 first class seats. This will allow AA to add back a few more coach seats.

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1711 times:

FlyPNS1: Dangit! I don't want to hear that!

Ah well, just makes me work harder to keep Executive Platinum with the 100 hour confirmation on upgrades.

Steve


User currently offlineFokker Lover From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1704 times:

I don't need to ask a Southwest mechanic. I know that they make MORE money than I do. Just because they are a low fare carrier, don't believe that they don't pay their employees very well. The big difference is when Herb called an executive meeting, he needed to pull six chairs around a table. When we call an executive meeting, we need to rent a motel ballroom that holds 600. Everbody wears name tags just to
identify all of the vice presidents. We waste money but it's not the unions. Don't think that I'm a big union supporter either. Though it's a necessary evil, a union is a big business that I pay to protect me from another big business. When the union stops doing its job, it's time to replace it.



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