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Why Do Airlines Have Orient Or Asia Subsidaries?  
User currently offlineCmchardyfl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2002, 175 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2194 times:

Hi Guys,

Why do airlines have Orient or Asia subsidaries in order to fly into Taiwan?? I may just be answering my own question as I figure its so the 'same' airline can fly into both mainland China and Taiwan. So if this is true, why is an airline not allowed to fly into Taiwan and mainland China?

Another question. What airlines have, or have had Orient or Asia subsideries? A few spring to mind:

Northwest
Air France
British Airways
Swissair?

I dont believe I have ever seen airlines such as United, Alitalia, Lufthansa, FedEx and others with Asia or Orient subsideries. Why not? Have they never flown into Taiwan?

Thank you in advance for any answers and I appologise in advance if this topic has been discussed in depth before. I had a good look around but could not see anything on this subject in months.

Cheers

Chris

17 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBoeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

You are right, it was so that they could fly into both Taiwan (Republic of China) and the Mainland (People's Republic of China)

The Mainland gov't didn't want any foreign carrier to recognize the gov't on Taiwan as legitimate by flying there, and for a while refused to give landing rights to any carrier that flew to both places, thus the ____ Asia airlines.

After a while, they relented, and now carriers fly to both without the Asia titles.

Northwest was Northwest Orient for all their flights up until the 80's, not just for their flights to Taiwan, at least I think.



User currently offlineTriplebird From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2179 times:

Why do airlines have Orient or Asia subsidaries in order to fly into Taiwan??

Politics. 'Officially' (according to Beijing), an airline can't fly to both China (PRC) and Taiwan (ROC).

...I figure its so the 'same' airline can fly into both mainland China and Taiwan

You got it. Though oftentimes the 'Asia' division is a legally seperate entity, owned by the parent airline (eg British Asia Airways is/was a wholly owned subsidiary of British Airways, PLC)

I dont believe I have ever seen [other] airlines...with Asia or Orient subsideries. Why not?

Some airlines that fly to both the PRC and the ROC use only one livery. They simply ignore China's rhetoric.


3-bird

BTW: Northwest Orient was not a subsidiary of Northwest. It's NWA's old name.


User currently offlinePaulc From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 1490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2125 times:

KLM Asia also existed for the same reason


English First, British Second, european Never!
User currently offlineDarius From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2072 times:

Why is the crown taken of KLM's logo on the KLM asia aircraft?
And has KLM asia ceased to exist? I thought more and more 744's of KLM got the Asia scheme?

Cheers


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2062 times:

Lufthansa used (I don't know if they still do) its charter subsidary Condor to fly int Taiwan.

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2047 times:

Another word on the LH/Condor thing: the plane was simply painted in Condor livery, it had nothing to do with Condor. The interior continued to be 100% LH, the planed continued to be owned by LH.
That plane also flew other routes, because the TPE flight was only twice or thrice weekly. Nowadays, LH codeshares on TG into the R.O.C., so the a/c in question was repainted into the standard LH livery.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineKLM747 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2001, 669 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2044 times:

There's also Japan Asia Airways, subsidiary of Japan Airlines.


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User currently offlineSuperdawg From Canada, joined Jan 2000, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 2043 times:

There was also Swissair Asia at one point.

User currently offlineBritair From United Kingdom, joined Aug 1999, 933 posts, RR: 16
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2005 times:

Here are some of the "-Asia" subsidaries. Including Mandarin Airlines which was originally China Airlines' own version of an "-Asia" subsidary, set up to fly to Australia and Canada.

British Asia is no more, with the end of Taipei services in March.

Australia Asia is no more either, in a clever bit of fine print, services from Australia to Taipei are actually operated by Qantas Ltd, not Qantas Airways Ltd, so "officially" the flights are leased from the mainline airline to the subsidary......a true paper airline. However when Australian Airlines takes over the route in October, Qantas Ltd will no longer exist.


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Cheers  Smile


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7991 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1978 times:

What's interesting is that Japan Asia Airways proved to be a surprisingly profitable operation for JL.

The reason is simple: there are many ex-pat Taiwanese living in Japan, many of whom arrived in Japan to escape the Nationalist Chinese in 1949. Today, there is considerable traffic between Japan and Taiwan; many Japanese visit Taiwan on cheap all-inclusive vacations.

(A little off-topic but interesting tidbit: you can get the very latest Japanese manga translated to Chinese often within one week of publication in Japan. This is because 1) Japanese and Chinese are read right to left, so it simplifies artwork translation issues, and 2) the Japanese publishing houses have Chinese-fluent translators doing the word balloons for Japanese manga in Chinese at the same time the Japanese version is being done.)

I believe that JAA flies from TPE to FUK, KIX and now NRT. Fukuoka has a pretty large Chinese ex-pat population due to its closeness to China.


User currently offlineDanialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1958 times:

Question ... how did other airlines get around this? Just ignoring PRC rhetorics??? (sounds questionable)
Airlines that come to mind here are Singapore Airlines, Thai Airways, United, Air Macau



Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
User currently offlineCXCPA From Hong Kong, joined May 2000, 387 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

ANA's subsidary, Air Nippon have flights to Taiwan.
There are airlines both flyin to the mainland and Taiwan such as Dragon Air, Air Macau, Singapore Airlines, Korean Air,.....


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4693 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1901 times:

Some additional information regarding LH's flights to Taiwan operated in Condor colors.

The aircraft used for this was B747-400 D-ABTD. The service was relatively short-lived somewhen in the 1994/95 time range.

Here are some pictures:


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Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineAirzim From Zimbabwe, joined Jun 2001, 1201 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1897 times:

Just one clarification, Korean Air does not fly to Taiwan nor do Asiana, EVA Air or China Airlines fly between Taiwan and Korea. Political disputes do not allow traffic rights.

Currently Cathay Pacific and Thai are the only airlines with direct service.


User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4749 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1893 times:

Singapore Airlines, so far, is the only the only airline that has applied for clearance to operate into Taiwan without a creation of any subsidiaries. The rest of the world don't really care, I guess!


Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 5980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1878 times:

Well, I doubt that the US carriers would actually think about following *gasp* Communist! rules.


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1864 times:

Ryanair:

Singapore Airlines is not the only one. Excluding partially Chinese owned Air Macau and Dragonair, what about Thai, Malaysia, Philippine, Vietnam, Garuda(?), Qantas, United, Northwest, Air Canada, UPS, FedEx, and perhaps some more? If memory serves, Thai was the first airline to fly both Taiwan and China under the same brand name.


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