VirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 48 Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 4122 times:
Bobcat's original question still stands - have the CVRs and FDRs been recovered from the three aircraft that hit the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon? I would be amazed if they could have survived the collapse of the towers, but perhaps they were thrown clear when the aircraft hit - there was definitely plenty of faling debris visible in the video sequences.
"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
NZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4073 times:
The reason that these tapes are not released to the public is because they're private.
They are a record of conversations between the crew (and in this case, the hijackers) on the flightdeck.
Therefore, I don't see any value to be gained in their release in the same way that I wouldn't want the general public hearing what goes on in my office.
NZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4054 times:
"Yeah, we've got to respect the hijackers privacy!"
I was expecting a stupid, unthinking comment like that.
Read the WHOLE post, not just the bit in brackets that suits you.
These tapes contain CREW conversations.
It's their privacy that has to be protected, not to mention the families of those crew members.
How do you think they would feel hearing the last words of their loved ones?
Might be entertaining for the ghoulish amongst us.
And you brought up another reason too.
They're evidence in a crime. Therefore, they're sub-judice or "before the courts.
How many cases have you heard of where evidence is released to the public before it's been tested in court?
Sudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4128 posts, RR: 6 Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 4043 times:
I don't say that NZ767 is wrong, but it makes me wonder why they made the ATC tape available for the public from UA93.
There was a lot of talk between the crew and the hijackers. And they even broadcasted it on TV!!!!????
Wingman From Spain, joined May 1999, 2035 posts, RR: 5 Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3944 times:
I disagree completely. When a flight crew fulfills its mission on a daily basis then their conversations should be private. But when the cockpit becomes a crime scene and the actions taking place in that cockpit cause 3000 deaths and $50B in damage, directly impacting me as a former New Yorker and taxpayer, that conversation should become part of the public record. The bottom line is that I want to know the truth.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17298 posts, RR: 51 Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 3944 times:
As for the CVRs themselves, I highly doubt they will ever be found. They are designed to take abuse, but not to the extreme in which they were fated to. I honestly think the CVRs for the Pentagon plane and the PA plane were recovered, but they were not announced to the public. As for the WTC aircraft, those thing are probably sitting in a pile of rubble @ Fresh Kills. But one could speculate that the CVRs for all flights were recovered, and they are being treated as a very hush hush matter.
Delta737 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 516 posts, RR: 11 Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3901 times:
CVR's are played for investigators and other authorities, but the public release of that information is cheesy.
The same people that thirst to listen to CVR's are usually the ones that are gawking at a traffic accident trying to catch a glimpse of the gory details.
What's "Joe Six Pack" going to do with a CVR recording? Nothing. This aint "The Osbournes".
Remember when they released the AA-Cali accident CVR on television? What value was that? Nothing. It didn't improve safety, fix the problem, make air travel safer, just created a small 'up tick' in the ratings performance for that evening news broadcast.
Hawkeye2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 234 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3886 times:
Someone leaked the contents of the CVR tape of UA 93 (but I don't think the tape itself) to Newsweek last December, and there's a article describing it in detail; it's probably on the Newsweek web site somewhere.
Jetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 3889 times:
I have to ask the question, why would you want to listen to the tapes? To me it smacks of voyeurism of the worst type. Chances are that the CVR tapes for the 9/11 crimes would have recorded over the initial cockpit invasion(s) anyway. When it comes to other aircraft accidents, the CVR information is there for legitimate investigators to review. For the rest of us, there is simply no need to know what was said during the crew's last few moments. Over the years, I have had occasion to hear the actual tapes and/or read the transcripts of a couple of fatal accidents . In many cases, what was said during those last moments, was deeply and intimately personal messages to family and loved ones. I have no desire to ever have to go repeat those experiences again.
Srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 17298 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 3789 times:
When they played the tapes for the families, a lot of people criticized them for that. I think they should at least release a transcript of the CVRs, so that the public knows what exactly transpired onboard those aircraft. It would end the speculation that has been running rampant since 9/11.
Redngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3745 times:
Aside from the fact that the CVRs from the WTC impacts were completely destroyed, it seems everyone's missed the real reason the CVRs haven't been released...
They are considered EVIDENCE.
They are evidence in a federal trial against Zarcarias Moussaoui, and any other potential people to-be-indicted for the 9/11 attacks. If this evidence is released to the public, it has the potential to taint the potential jury pool and prejudice the legal community.
Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3732 times:
If the CVR tapes are private, why are there so many other recordings from other accidents out there? Some websites even have them for downloads...
If you read the disclaimer at the end of TV documentaries/news shows that use said recordings, it says the policy of the NTSB is to not release CVR recordings. They are obtained from other sources (probably orgs like unions, part/aircraft manufacturers, attorneys involved in lawsuits after the crash, etc.) who may have had reason to have access to said tapes during their portion of the investigation.
Seiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3683 times:
One other point about the flight 93 CVR, it would tell us the truth about whether the plane did indeed crash in the struggle for control or if it was shot down by the military.
How so would it tell the truth?
Apparently much of the CVR recording was garbled voices, screaming, loud noises, etc. I don't really see how whether it was shot down or not would be apparent from a cockpit voice recording.
Flynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 3672 times:
Redngold is right. The recordings are evidence, and are probably top-secret material. I wonder why people would want to hear them anyway, other than to satisfy some sick personal want or need. I wouldn't hold my breath. They will probably never be released.
Kaitakfan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1587 posts, RR: 7 Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 3639 times:
For some reason I highly doubt that CVR's will "taint the jury pool". If a massive terrorist attack such as 9/11 doesnt taint any freedom, happy living human being, nothing will! In certain aspects the CVR's are small beans to this case.
25 747-451: If any ATC tapes were found after the brutal, murderous and cowardly act, they will not be released until the criminal investigations are completed si
26 Hawkeye2: According to the Newsweek article (you can search for it on the newsweek.com site, I'm too lazy right now ) the UA 93 crew was ALREADY DEAD at the beg
27 Jhooper: Had the passengers been able to subdue the hijackers, was there anyone on the flight qualified to operate the aircraft?