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Are CVRs From 9/11 Planes Available To The Public?  
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5136 times:

Are CVRs from 9/11 planes available to the public?
Were CVRs recovered from all four planes or just the one
that crashed in PA?

Also, where is that website that have CVR audio files
or transcripts from past crashes?

Thanks for any info.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8192 posts, RR: 24
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5128 times:

No CVRs but the ATC tape from CLE center is available at http://www.airdisaster.com. For flight 93.


This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5120 times:

thanks! that was going to be my second question... why is the flight#93 ATC tape the only one available?

User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4537 posts, RR: 41
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5045 times:

Bobcat's original question still stands - have the CVRs and FDRs been recovered from the three aircraft that hit the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon? I would be amazed if they could have survived the collapse of the towers, but perhaps they were thrown clear when the aircraft hit - there was definitely plenty of faling debris visible in the video sequences.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineB757300 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 4114 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5038 times:

I don't think they were ever found @ the WTC or @ the Pentagon. I never heard a news report that they were found.

If I remember correctly, there is some stupid federal law that prevents the NTSB from releasing CVR tapes. I think it goes back to Delta 1141 @ DFW but I'm not sure.



"There is no victory at bargain basement prices."
User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4996 times:

The reason that these tapes are not released to the public is because they're private.
They are a record of conversations between the crew (and in this case, the hijackers) on the flightdeck.
Therefore, I don't see any value to be gained in their release in the same way that I wouldn't want the general public hearing what goes on in my office.


User currently offlineHisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4983 times:

Yeah, we've got to respect the hijackers privacy!
If these tapes exist they should be released as evidence of a crime unless the government has a pretty good reason not too.

Hisham.


User currently offlineNZ767 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 1620 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4977 times:

Hisham,

"Yeah, we've got to respect the hijackers privacy!"

I was expecting a stupid, unthinking comment like that.
Read the WHOLE post, not just the bit in brackets that suits you.
These tapes contain CREW conversations.
It's their privacy that has to be protected, not to mention the families of those crew members.
How do you think they would feel hearing the last words of their loved ones?
Might be entertaining for the ghoulish amongst us.
And you brought up another reason too.
They're evidence in a crime. Therefore, they're sub-judice or "before the courts.
How many cases have you heard of where evidence is released to the public before it's been tested in court?



User currently offlineSudden From Sweden, joined Jul 2001, 4130 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4966 times:

I don't say that NZ767 is wrong, but it makes me wonder why they made the ATC tape available for the public from UA93.
There was a lot of talk between the crew and the hijackers. And they even broadcasted it on TV!!!!????

Here is the ATC tape from UA93
http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/atcwav.shtml
I might add that this tape is a sensored version.



When in doubt, flat out!
User currently offlineDelboy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 725 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4968 times:


Well said NZ767.

As always, the ghouls out there get a huge kick listening to this kind of thing.

Bobcat et al.

What possible reasons do you have for the need to listen to the tapes?

You know what will happen next don't you. Some sicko will request the tapes from the mid air in Switzerland.


User currently offlineHisham From Lebanon, joined Aug 1999, 701 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4870 times:

I'm not interested in listening to the tapes.

They can release the transcripts instead of the tapes. All I'm saying is that evidence is public. People get hurt all the time by their loved ones' testimonies in court. That's how the system works.

Hisham.





User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2208 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

I disagree completely. When a flight crew fulfills its mission on a daily basis then their conversations should be private. But when the cockpit becomes a crime scene and the actions taking place in that cockpit cause 3000 deaths and $50B in damage, directly impacting me as a former New Yorker and taxpayer, that conversation should become part of the public record. The bottom line is that I want to know the truth.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 4867 times:

As for the CVRs themselves, I highly doubt they will ever be found. They are designed to take abuse, but not to the extreme in which they were fated to. I honestly think the CVRs for the Pentagon plane and the PA plane were recovered, but they were not announced to the public. As for the WTC aircraft, those thing are probably sitting in a pile of rubble @ Fresh Kills. But one could speculate that the CVRs for all flights were recovered, and they are being treated as a very hush hush matter.

User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 12
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4831 times:

Two of the four have been found. They recovered the ones from UAL93 and AAL77. AAL77 was the flight that crashed into the Pentagon (which coincidently destroyed my grandfather's office).

In other words the CVR/FDR were recovered from the Pentagon crash site.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineDelta737 From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 516 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4824 times:

CVR's are played for investigators and other authorities, but the public release of that information is cheesy.

The same people that thirst to listen to CVR's are usually the ones that are gawking at a traffic accident trying to catch a glimpse of the gory details.

What's "Joe Six Pack" going to do with a CVR recording? Nothing. This aint "The Osbournes".

Remember when they released the AA-Cali accident CVR on television? What value was that? Nothing. It didn't improve safety, fix the problem, make air travel safer, just created a small 'up tick' in the ratings performance for that evening news broadcast.

Doug Taylor
jetcareers.com


User currently offlineHawkeye2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 4809 times:

Someone leaked the contents of the CVR tape of UA 93 (but I don't think the tape itself) to Newsweek last December, and there's a article describing it in detail; it's probably on the Newsweek web site somewhere.

User currently offlineJetguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 4812 times:

I have to ask the question, why would you want to listen to the tapes? To me it smacks of voyeurism of the worst type. Chances are that the CVR tapes for the 9/11 crimes would have recorded over the initial cockpit invasion(s) anyway. When it comes to other aircraft accidents, the CVR information is there for legitimate investigators to review. For the rest of us, there is simply no need to know what was said during the crew's last few moments. Over the years, I have had occasion to hear the actual tapes and/or read the transcripts of a couple of fatal accidents . In many cases, what was said during those last moments, was deeply and intimately personal messages to family and loved ones. I have no desire to ever have to go repeat those experiences again.

Jetguy


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 4712 times:

When they played the tapes for the families, a lot of people criticized them for that. I think they should at least release a transcript of the CVRs, so that the public knows what exactly transpired onboard those aircraft. It would end the speculation that has been running rampant since 9/11.

User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 18, posted (12 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4668 times:

Aside from the fact that the CVRs from the WTC impacts were completely destroyed, it seems everyone's missed the real reason the CVRs haven't been released...

*ahem*

They are considered EVIDENCE.

They are evidence in a federal trial against Zarcarias Moussaoui, and any other potential people to-be-indicted for the 9/11 attacks. If this evidence is released to the public, it has the potential to taint the potential jury pool and prejudice the legal community.

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineBobcat From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4659 times:

releasing the CVR tapes from the 4 hijacked/crashed planes isn't such a bad idea... there are still plenty of people out there who do not believe Arab terrorists are responsible for 9/11.

If the CVR tapes are private, why are there so many other recordings from other accidents out there? Some websites even have them for downloads...


User currently offlineSeiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 4655 times:


If the CVR tapes are private, why are there so many other recordings from other accidents out there? Some websites even have them for downloads...


If you read the disclaimer at the end of TV documentaries/news shows that use said recordings, it says the policy of the NTSB is to not release CVR recordings. They are obtained from other sources (probably orgs like unions, part/aircraft manufacturers, attorneys involved in lawsuits after the crash, etc.) who may have had reason to have access to said tapes during their portion of the investigation.


User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3007 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (12 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4614 times:

One other point about the flight 93 CVR, it would tell us the truth about whether the plane did indeed crash in the struggle for control or if it was shot down by the military.

Remember, Cheney did give orders several times to shoot down United 93 when it appeared to be headed for DC.

Not that I believe that the military actually shot it down, but it would certainly remove that possibility beyond a shadow of a doubt.



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineSeiple From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4606 times:


One other point about the flight 93 CVR, it would tell us the truth about whether the plane did indeed crash in the struggle for control or if it was shot down by the military.


How so would it tell the truth?
Apparently much of the CVR recording was garbled voices, screaming, loud noises, etc. I don't really see how whether it was shot down or not would be apparent from a cockpit voice recording.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4595 times:

Redngold is right. The recordings are evidence, and are probably top-secret material. I wonder why people would want to hear them anyway, other than to satisfy some sick personal want or need. I wouldn't hold my breath. They will probably never be released.

Chris in Orlando


User currently offlineKaitakfan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (12 years 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

For some reason I highly doubt that CVR's will "taint the jury pool". If a massive terrorist attack such as 9/11 doesnt taint any freedom, happy living human being, nothing will! In certain aspects the CVR's are small beans to this case.

25 747-451 : If any ATC tapes were found after the brutal, murderous and cowardly act, they will not be released until the criminal investigations are completed si
26 Post contains images Hawkeye2 : According to the Newsweek article (you can search for it on the newsweek.com site, I'm too lazy right now ) the UA 93 crew was ALREADY DEAD at the beg
27 Jhooper : Had the passengers been able to subdue the hijackers, was there anyone on the flight qualified to operate the aircraft?
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