Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Snba Accused Of Illegal Competition By BE!  
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1041 times:

From today's ATWOnline http://www.atwonline.com/indexfull.cfm?newsid=2090

British European said it was "forced to suspend [its twice-daily scheduled] services between Brussels and Newcastle" owing to unfair competitive pricing by SN Brussels Airlines. Privately held BE commenced service on the route last Nov. within 48 hr. of the closure of Sabena--"even extending the gesture to passengers of honoring worthless Sabena tickets for a period," according to the airline. "SN Brussels then re-entered the routes, having secured support from the Belgian government." BE's move follows British Airways' exit from the Bristol-Brussels route in May following a period of extensive losses. "Since its re-launch after the demise of Sabena, the overcapacity that SN Brussels Airlines added to British European's services on the route has produced traffic and revenue levels substantially below breakeven for both carriers--resulting in British European's withdrawal and raising the spectre of severe price hikes by SN Brussels as the monopoly provider," BE stated. "As with all cases where the market is distorted by state support, competitive operations are the first casualty with reduced choice and less frequencies. The next phase is normally higher monopoly fares. At the end of the day, the customers are worse off," said MD Jim French. The airline confirmed it has held detailed discussions with the European Commission and does not rule out any course of action, including lodging an official complaint.

Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose!  Big grin

9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineEstablished02 From Belgium, joined Jan 2002, 536 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1003 times:

SAS23, thanks for the article.

> BE's move follows British Airways' exit from the Bristol-Brussels route
> in May following a period of extensive losses.

Were BA's losses on BRS-BRU also the result of SNBA's (unlawful) interference?
If not, what's the connection between BE and BA's withdrawal from these 2 markets?

> Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose!

Plus que ça change, plus que c'est la même chose?

Was there ever a simliar incident caused by SN?


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 992 times:

Established02 - yes, SN was subsidised by the Belgian government throught its life, whereas the British government cut the apron strings with BA back in the early 1980s.

Given the very small domestic market, SN (and SNBA) needed an extensive European network to feed their long haul routes. As their European destinations were invariably common-rated with their BRU fares, there was no revenue coming in for those feeder flights other than point-to-point tickets.


User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 979 times:

Damn, that aint to brilliant for BE and NCL, but now maybe SN can get loads back up to the 85%+ that they were when Sabena operated the route.

What route will the CRJ do now, as it arrives early morning into NCL from CDG, presumably it wont sit about at NCL in the evening until departing back to CDG?!



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 932 times:

Thats rich of BE, who in their better off days have also forced carriers off routes.

BE are a carrier with a high cost base operating the wrong aircraft types on the wrong routes. They announced that the CRJ's were being returned to Canada, but alas nobody else wants them!

They cannot compete against any competition, and have moaned one time too man, even to the EU, who probably have heard it all before. BE complain about Go at Stansted, BE complain about EI at London City....., or the airports authorites too.

Where they can stop competition, they have, and have complained about any low cost operators flying into Jersey, which is still a restricted market.






The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 912 times:

BE are a carrier with a high cost base operating the wrong aircraft types on the wrong routes.

Whats wrong with the DH8-200s out of NCL?  Laugh out loud



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineBestWestern From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2000, 6953 posts, RR: 57
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 890 times:

Its not the Dash 8's that are the problem, its that the CRJ and 146 are not a suitable aircraft to make money on, considering the routes that BE have them operating on.

The Dash-8's-200's are the perfect aircraft for ex NCL and BHX services, which would offer profitable services on non-competition routes. However, BE seems to like taking on the competition, and of late loosing. They need to create their own niche, with routes such as NCL - BFS, NCL - BRS, NCL - JER, and not try to compete against the flag carriers on NCL - BRU, LON - BFS.

Whilst they give out about SN and EI being big boys, look what they are attempting at ORK against RE, or back five years ago against AB airlines at BFS.



The world is really getting smaller these days
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24815 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 873 times:

The 146's are perfect for the AF franchise routes though  Big grin and for a lot of the charter flights they operate, especially from NCL to such places as Salzburg, Verona and Venice.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineSlz396 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 794 times:

I am not going to go into a pointless discussion on the legally secured and approved funding of SN, but rather would like to give some more 'news' to those interested...

Apart from a further expansion in Africa, SN is currently also looking at re-entering 12 traditional European Sabena routes as from the end of October.

One of the destinations mentioned would be Edinburgh, which accidentally is the other route BE commenced within 48 hrs of the temporarily suspension of European flights by SN...

BE surely will have a hard time ahead if they want to survive in Brussels for much longer, as their 3rd route out of Brussels, Birmingham is suffering from very strong competition too from both SN and BA, 2 airlines which recently announced a commercial agreement on their Heathrow and Gatwick flights and might work closer together on other UK routes in the future too...



User currently offlineLuchtzak From Belgium, joined Dec 2001, 468 posts, RR: 8
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 739 times:

Dear all,

After Sabena had gone, they started BRU-NCL with an BAe146-series, after a few weeks they 'downgraded' (I only mean that they took an a/c that has less seats) to a Canadair RJ. In Belgium we have the expression to say:"If somebody dies, their are others to dance on its couffin!!"

And now they are starting to investigate how it is possible that they are losing money on their Brussels-flights? I could have known this! Everytime I arrived in Newcastle (NCL), British European showed up with their flight from Brussels with always fewer passengers then we had. (e.g. we had about 20, they had around 5 or 6)

Maybe they should consider changing their inflight service, hire 3language-flight attendants etc... iso blaming SN BA to be the major fault of this. I have met passengers who flew BE once or twice after the Sabena-collapse and one by one booking flights again on SN Brussels Airlines. How could that be possible? I don 't consider it as Belgian governmental support, it is just a mismanagement issue by BE. "If you dig a grave for another...."


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
2 A340 Of Gulf Air To BE Replaced BY 777 posted Thu Jun 21 2001 16:14:08 by GF-A330
Report Of AA Takover By BA Has Been Dismissed posted Fri Feb 16 2007 17:18:21 by EI321
New Pics Of DL's B767-400 W/ BE posted Fri Dec 29 2006 17:43:28 by N808DE
Iberia Accused Of Discrimination In Peru posted Tue Nov 28 2006 09:22:42 by KLM685
Qantas Accused Of Being A "Stalinist Regime" posted Mon Nov 6 2006 07:33:10 by Singapore_Air
HA: YV Accused Of Conspiring To Oust AQ posted Sat Sep 16 2006 17:38:57 by Kalakaua
How Much Of This Flight Would Be In Darkness? posted Fri Jul 7 2006 17:02:51 by Drinkstrolley
AA, BA, VS UA Accused Of Price Fixing! posted Tue Jun 27 2006 15:08:15 by NWDC10
Forgeard Accused Of Insider Trading posted Fri Jun 16 2006 13:28:40 by RichardPrice
Ryanair Accused Of Landing Below Minimums posted Mon May 1 2006 19:46:06 by Westindian425