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Lufthansa, When Will They Introduce Economy Plus?  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 7922 times:

STAR Partners United, SAS and BMI introduced Economy Plus for their most important travelers. I' ve heard LH will introduce sleepers seats on the A340-600 and the existing fleet.

http://www.jetsite.com.br/fotos/DAIHA.jpg

IMO that creates a gab between economy and business class.

I'm 1.93 meters long and could use a few extra inches on LH, especially when my boss pays full fare..

Also to be consistent with their Atlantic alliance partners such a product seems likely. Or is consistency not so important within Star ?


19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineHamburger From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 23 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7873 times:


IMHO there probably won't be a swift introduction of such a class on LH. Considering they have yet to introduce PTVs in Economy class of any description, and are about half a decade or more "late" in providing beds in C, they might wake up to the demand for such a class in about...2008?

BTW, STAR airlines RG,TG and SQ also feature only three-cabin longhaul fleets, and OS and AC have merely two cabins, so consistency seems entirely unimportant within STAR.

You can "fool" LH into giving you more comfort, at least in F and C if JFK is your destination: the morning flight FRA-JFK is a codeshare, operated by SQ...



User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7851 times:

full beds in business half a decade ago, and which carrier would that be, if I may ask?
as for PTV: neverending story...but as the new cabin interior design for all 3 classes is currently in the making, we may just have to wait a few months or even years for that, but they will certainly NOT introduce PTV on a standalone basis.
Economy plus: I don't think that will happen, Keesje, about 6 months ago, there was an interview with the upcoming (01/2004) CEO of LH, and he clearly stated that there is not enough demand for such a product...
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7835 times:

Hamburger, Andreas, not many sleeper seats have been introduced in the last few years, but increased legroom and recline has. Delta, United, Northwest, BA and KLM introduced these some time ago. The difference with LH is not minor, 10 -15 inch ?

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Perhaps the need will become more clear if frequent flyers get more and more options and start noticing they get more value for less money with CX, SQ, UA, MH, Co etc ...

I did.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7823 times:

..completely refitting the interior of the whole fleet does cost a lot of money, and we already know there will be such a refitting in the mid-term future. I don't believe a quickshot would help, let alone increase earnings. LH is known to be on the prudent side as concerns financing the company ( and that certainly shows in the financial statement!!).

Currently they don't suffer more than other carriers from the consequences of september 11th, and please keep in mind: there's more to the product than just screens in front of you, especially when we talk about business travellers such as myself. I for one prefer good and flexible schedules, short connecting times, and there LH is pretty good compared to most of its competitors. This may not be true for event flyers, who pay € 500 once a year during their holidays and expect no less than sensational service from young and pretty f/a's, leather seating and a selection of the latest pc games and movies on a 35-inch personal screen (that may be exaggerated, but i get the impression here on this forum). Well let those fly SQ or whatever (I prefer SQ when on holiday), but LH certainly does have a strategy that aims at business travellers, and quite obviously it works somehow.
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7809 times:

I think it's not realistic to stereotype everybody in economy class as event flyers paying $500 and wanting only PTV.

I don't know how much business related travelers there in LH economy class that payed >$1500 for their "flexible" ticket and get the same product as 15 years ago, only less legroom & more kids around them.

The future will show how loyal these passengers are, especially if other airlines start tempting LH FF'ers with free upgrades to their M Plus products etc.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 7784 times:

maybe that will be the case, or maybe not...currently it works quite well and changes ARE coming up.
as for the upgrades...free lunch was and is never the solution, free giveaways will get you no money and even if German business travellers are tempted, it won't work most of the time anyway out of schedule reasons.
event flyers: please read carefully: I didn't strereotype all economy flyers, certainly not, just those few, who fit in that stereotype and are obviously all members of this forum.
Most of the economy flyers are business travellers, too, I know that quite well and therefore have other preferences, like i.e. schedule, flexibility in connections etc.
As for legroom: LH is average in that aspect, not more, not less, and all Mr. Mayrhuber said was, that they CURRENTLY see no preference in the market for that product (economy plus), that might change or it might not. Especially in aviation it rarely pays to pioneer in terms of earnings, so LH is currently not under pressure to accelerate their interior design program.
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7766 times:

Surely it is the quality of the seat itself that matters. The economy seat is not the same throughout all airlines, some are better than others. I've never flown Economy plus and don't know how much better the seat is. Is it better for an airline to offer long haul passengers a very good quality seat and 34" pitch in Economy, because at the end of the day there are more economy passengers to satisfy than Economy plus?

User currently offlineDutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 56
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7754 times:

In my opinion, probably never. The jury is still out on the Economy Plus idea as a seperate 4th class of service; it is difficult to configure and reduces flexibility on some aircraft and is another product and fare type for the airlines to manage. Are 4 classes of service really needed - when airlines introduced Business Class back in the 1980s, it too began as moderate upgrade for business pax - and developed into a "near-First Class" product......business class became so close to First that many airlines responded by dropping First Class altogether.

In the future, I think we will see airlines going back to 2 classes of service; a premium cabin and a standard cabin, with the option of beds for premium customers. Also, one can hope that other airlines follow AA with restoring some leg room for all economy pax. Another thought is the new proposed longer range flights inexcess of 14 hours on the A345 and B777LR.....can pax sit for 16 hours with seats in a 31" pitch configuration?



User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7746 times:

I´ve heard 2003 as the "refreshment date" for the Economy Class and 2004/5 for the First and Business Class which would be in line with the common 10-year replacement schedule.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders New design launched today!



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7738 times:

That depends on the airline, some use economy seating but increase legroom, some use business seating (sometimes even old one like on garuda if I remember correctly) but less legroom, some use special seating designed for that special class.
I agree with you that there is currently no real proof that economy plus is the solution, but for me it will be interesting to watch, since I am 190cm long (that's 6'2", if I'm not mistaken), and need every inch there is to get my knees to the destination in one piece!!
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 7734 times:

...for all classes, that seems to be in line with your information. Obviously there are a few problems that need a solution, such as the long-term test of internet access on one B747-400, the Sachsen-Anhalt, that starts in these days.
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 599 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7720 times:

I think on SAS' A340 the rules are as follows: If you pay the full Y class ticket (with no restrictions) you will be seated in Economy+. If you pay a discounted economy ticket you will be seated in Economy. Sounds fair enough

User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7718 times:

How has Virgin's Y+ product been doing?-it's been around for a while.

I'd also like to know how the pricing on premium economy products works. I flew Virgin from CPT to LHR in December, on a 1-way ticket, and this cost me 1500 pounds, which I consider steep for Economy-especially given I was placed in standard economy; for that price, I was sure I would be seated in Virgin's Premium Economy!

Then I see BA offering 1-way upgrades to their W class (World Traveller Plus) to JFK from only 250 pounds, so I begin to wonder whether there is ANY pricing policy here!

Any thoughts?

Regards


User currently offlineCopenhagenboy From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 599 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Ups, forgot to tell. Economy+ seating is 2+3+2, Economy 2+4+2, seat pich 37" against 32". There must be a market for this, everyone in LH Economy has 31"

User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Capt Picard, there is often high demand on LHR-CPT, especially in Dec, so you paid £1500 according to availability, on this route in particular always check availability in other classes, restricted Y+ or BA's WT+ is sometimes cheaper, and of course the cheapest is Turkish Airlines via IST if you are quick enough.

User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7658 times:

Hi

I mislead you; when I typed 'it cost me'.....it didn't cost me a penny, personally; it cost my father's company that price....BA were 100% full, the company usually uses this airline for its longhaul employee travel....however, as you can imagine, the BA flight was 100% full. We grabbed the last seats on Virgin, which I consider lucky, as I now think their service is better than BA's.....

I would love to fly THY and stay a night in IST, altough the company probably wouldn't allow us to do that, even if it worked out cheaper (my parents get an F class allowance in any case-though that doesn't extend to sons/daughters  Sad ).


User currently offlineRichardw From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 3762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7651 times:

Now we know why you fly so much!

User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7639 times:

It's a combination of that, having family all over the place, and sticking to no-frills airlines when possible.  Big grin

User currently offlineTom_eddf From Germany, joined Apr 2000, 452 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 5 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 7614 times:

IMHO it wouldn't make much sense to introduce a 4th class of service, but to reduce from the current 3 class offering to just an uprated C-Class (like DL or CO did) and an improved Y with PTVs.

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