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New Alaskan Airline! This Idea Is Awesome!  
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1876 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1780 times:

Hey all, I had a very interesting idea for Alaska Airlines! I think it would be very cool personally! Anywhoo here goes! BTW: I know current contracts exist between Alaska AirGroup and ERA aviation.

The IDEA:

The airline would be a member of Alaska AirGroup (of course) it would fly the same equipment as horizon air (props mainly) and operate the same type of simular color scheme as Horizon and Alaska do, but in gold and brown. The airline would be called Alaska Back Country! It would give a name a brand unique to Alaska although AS already does. The airline would maybe operate the fuel efficant Bombardier turboprops capable of landing at those famous but akward air strips in alaska. The logo? I would say something that represents Alaska like Mt Mckinlly or a two tone totem pool ilistration on the tail? Another interesting idea for the aircraft color scheme is a US flag of course, complemented by the Alaska state flag. And of copurse each aircraft could have an interesting personalized name! Theres only a few problems the main one is that alaska would have to operate the cargo services with larger jet aircraft but maybe that would even make it easier! Well i would love your thoughts about this idea, i think its pretty cool myslef, having an alaska personalized airline!
Well thanks for reading the post i really appriciate it! Peace oUT!
Brian

23 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3253 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1751 times:

Great idea! Now, who's going to get the ball rolling?


.......
User currently offlineFlyf15 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1750 times:

I personally think you're spending too much time thinking about what the livery would be and not enough time thinking about what the point of the airline would be.

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1722 times:
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Nice idea...but if they really wanted to do something like that, wouldn't it be cheaper and less of a headache to simply buy Era and PenAir?


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineFlyboy80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1876 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1719 times:

of course but see alaska airlines has the resources and the idea to do this kind of thing, this was a shortened versiopn of the one i sent to administration of alaska air group so this one dosnt have all the technical specs and so on so you'll have to excuse me. And yes i know its very unlikely for this to happen for those of you waiting to say,"they wont execpt it." i did most of the livery talk here because graphics is a big thing maybe i should have had more of the techinical specs from the oringinal version. well ill be a cheackin this post so thast it for now!


User currently offlineAgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

Well, why not make it a total monopoly while we're at it...  Insane

User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1710 times:
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Gee, ANOTHER Alaska-basher whining about a "monopoly." How original. Did it ever occur to you that other airlines would fly there too if AS was taking home money in wheelbarrows?  Insane


"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1693 times:

Alaska is a monopoly on the ANC-SEA run.

That is a fact.

Hopefully some day we will see somebody that is financed well enough to break it. But they have to compete against Alaska, their FF program and all of their alliances.

That is exactly how airline alliances defeat competition.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRoadrunner165 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 874 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1685 times:

That Is all We need is AS Having A monopoly on all of Alaska!!! When MARKAIR Was Still around you could fly ANC-OME for about $200 now tickets are around $500 (No Inflation) It's Cheaper for me to fly form MSP-ANC than it is to go the 5 hundred miles or so to Nome... Alaska Back Country! Sounds kinda Dumb..No Offense.. And You have Penair,Bering Air,Era Aviation,Flight Alaska..ect. There would be no sense for anybody to switch to AS


Cheers

Adam


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1670 times:

Oh other points of interest.

There is a persitant rumor that has been around for about two years about Alaska dumping ERA and then bring some Dash-8's up that where displaced by RJ's in the lower 48.

ERA's Dash-8's don't have the needed climb performance to operate safely out of the Valdez airport. Their single engine performance is lacking. That is one of the big reasons they are holding on to their Convairs.

Alaska's motus operandi is to operate at a loss on the SEA run if a new competitor moves in, that way they force the competitor to cut their prices below their costs and eventually force them out. Alaska is able to do that because they have their lower 48 route system to subsidize them.

I guess that they did learn something from Neil Berght.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRoadrunner165 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 874 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1669 times:

EA CO AS---You may not notice that there is a monopoly. IIFFFFF you live on the west coast, But up in Alaska, AS Make a killing off of Alaskan's... And this is how they do it...Lets take Markair for example..

They Charged about $200 bucks a ticket.. AS Decided they wanted to make more money...So What do They do???
They Lower there Price to $125-They don't even make any money them Themselfs.
After a month or two Markair can't afford to fly there anymore.. so they close up shop...No Choice. AS Drove them out

Then, All of A sudden AS price Jumps to $500 HUMMM... Seems a little fishy to ME


Cheers,

Adam


BTW, I Love Alaska Airlines, I just wish they had better Rates


User currently offlineRoadrunner165 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 874 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1654 times:

"Alaska's motus operandi is to operate at a loss on the SEA run if a new competitor moves in, that way they force the competitor to cut their prices below their costs and eventually force them out. Alaska is able to do that because they have their lower 48 route system to subsidize them."

I can't Agree More... You seem Like a smart person I think I even respect you...I'm putting you on my Respected Users: List


Cheer

Adam


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1649 times:

Of course that was Neil Berghts whole program too.

I understand he is playing the same tricks right now with Homer Air, which is is consulting for.

My brother worked for Smokey Bay Air this winter, (He and the owner are both on the VFD down in Homer) anyway, I heard some great stories.

We are still trying to figure out how Homer Air was able to get a mail contract.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1643 times:
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Adam,

While I respect your opinion, the fact of the matter is that Alaska Airlines' service into small cities and towns in AK costs quite a bit of money to provide. In many cases, they built their own terminals, air cargo facilities, and even helped pay for the airport infrastructure.

People routinely argue about how someone can fly coast to coast for $250.00, and that's a valid point. However, let's look at the number of people flying that route:

AA operates somewhere in the neighborhood of ten daily JFK-LAX nonstops, all using B-767 aircraft. Now let's assume an average of 200 people per plane. That's 2000 seats filled daily. So let's take the actual COST of supplying ten nonstops, factor in terminal rent, fuel, manpower, etc...and then divide by TWO THOUSAND.

AS might offer four daily nonstops from Seattle to Ketchikan, at an average of 100 people per aircraft. That works out to 400 seats filled daily...or 20% the size of the JFK-LAX market.

When you divide your costs by around 2000 people, you get a much lower average fare per person than if you're dividing it by just 400. THAT is why Alaska Airlines, in many cases, charges disproportionately higher fares to cities and towns within the state of Alaska than compared to the transcon flights offered between large metropolitan areas within the lower 48.

So once again I'll say that if AS were printing their own money by serving KTN, JNU, FAI, OME, OTZ, SCC, BRW, and so on, you'd have other airlines clamoring to offer service there.

And just FYI, ANC-SEA service is offered by a handful of other carriers as well. Granted, they may only offer one nonstop per day (whereas AS offers over 20 during the summer months), but it is definitely NOT a monopoly.




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineNikonF100 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1625 times:

Ok, now that we're on the subject of monopolies...

Tell me how I can get to Fargo from MSP without driving, or flying NW?

When Reno Air showed up in Minneapolis, guess what? NW Immediately dropped prices well below what QQ was advertising, and scheduled more flights. They even started (applied) Seattle-Reno. When Sun Country started sked service, NW slashed prices again, and threw bigger equip. On their Vegas runs. And suddenly, Alaska is "the big, bad airline that has a monopoly on the state of Alaska" Last I checked, NW has a monopoly on the states of Michigan, Minnesota, North Dakota, and Wisconsin.

As of 01JUL from the lower 48 to ANC...

Alaska (SEA/DEN,PDX,SFO,LAX,ORD)
United (SEA,SFO,LAX,ORD,DEN)
Delta (SEA)
Continental (PDX/EWR)
Northwest (MSP)

The only route Alaska dominates is the Seattle-ANC run. It's no different than SFO-NYC. If I don't want to fly United or American or Continental, I have one other choice of Delta, and their 2 daily departures...

Airlines that failed in Alaska.

MarkAir and Reno Air. Delta didn't do too good on the ANC-FAI runs either...





User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

You know a lot of those airlines you mention have only token service when winter comes around and the tourists go home. AA definatly is summer only, I am pretty sure that CO is the same way, and there is not way that UA is putting that many aircraft into and out of ANC. They only run a couple of flights to SEA for connects, Everything else they do is on codeshare with AS ditto for NW. A codeshare partner is not a real competitor, IMHO.

Reno Air did not fail, they where sold out. At the time of the sale they where still quite viable, and thus do not fit my definition of an airline that, "failed"

If fact ANC-SEA turned out to be their number one run within a couple of months of them initiating service on it.

But unlike most startups Reno Air had an extensive lower 48 network to support it's operations. They where still doing pretty well when they where sold to AA. They also don't fit the definition of one that operates, within Alaska. They only served Anchorage and later Fairbanks.

MarkAir could be a book on it's own. I am by no means a Neil Berght fan. It is a safe bet that I will never buy an advance purchase ticket on any airline he, owns, works for, or consults for. There where a lot of problems that he started, that are still being felt on the aviation industry up here.

Another question gets raised though. Why are we operating these larger aircraft up here on routes that can't support them. Personally on a lot of legs I wonder why anybody is trying to fly a 737 when you could fly a Saab or a Brasilia on more legs and have better service.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRoadrunner165 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 874 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

EA CO AS-It's not worth arguing over... I do see your point though.

L-188 Usually the 737 are full. With cargo or pax...But, yes there are a few flight that would be better served with a smaller aircraft.

Have a good day everybody
Cheers

Adam



User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1473 times:

Roadrunner, the point I was making was that it would be nice to trade the larger aircraft for smaller ones and pick up more round trips.


OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13518 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1357 times:
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Adam,

I definitely don't want to argue. You've made some valid points as well. It's true that it could seem like AS has a monopoly on many routes to, from, and within the state of Alaska, but it's not like they're holding the state hostage, either.  Big grin

It costs a lot to fly to Alaska, and not too many people want to fly there, comparitively speaking. The fewer people who go somewhere, the fewer people you can spread your costs over, resulting in higher ticket prices than in many other places. It's just a fact of economics.

AS is just trying to cover their costs, plus (dare I say it?) eke out a little profit, too. They just charge whatever the market will bear.

Besides, if they were truly holding the people in places like JNU and KTN hostage, why not just charge $1000.00 per ticket instead of $400.00 or so?  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

Have a good one!

RB



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29791 posts, RR: 58
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1290 times:

It can't be that obvious there. That would definatly be called for what it is, Illegal.

I apparently was under the mistaken impressions that all of those rural airports, where operated and maintained by the Alaska Department of Transportation. And most of the ones that you mention JNU, KTN are hardly what I consider Rural Airports.

They facilities that you mention typicaly only involving each airline building their only building, on airport leased property, which from what I have been told costs about 1/10th the price per square foot(based on what one truely rural airport manager told me) that a lease in the lobby of Anchorage International would run.

Alaska doesn't serve rural towns. What they do is enter in with codeshares with carriers such as ERA and Pen-Air. That way they do see the alleged higher costs of flying into those small towns. The smaller carrier does.

The codeshare agreement provides a big insentive for somebody who has to change planes in Bethel or Nome to keep on AS to Anchorage or the lower 48.

Since newcomers are not included in the codeshare, they have a much harder time competing, because if you where a traveler, lets face it, airline milage means money or free trips.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1188 times:

Flyboy80, how about this as a tail livery:

The tail would be the Alaskan flag. Do something similar to the way Ansett Australia stylized the Aussie flag on their tails.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32624 posts, RR: 72
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1178 times:

American Airlines, Continental, Northwest, and Delta all fly year-round to Anchorage. AA year-round from St. Louis (new this year), Continental from Portland, Northwest from Minneapolis, and Delta from Salt Lake City and Seattle. In addition to seasonal (AA-DFW, ORD; CO-EWR, IAH; NW-DTW; DL-ATL) services. I don't know about United.




a.
User currently offlineTango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3803 posts, RR: 29
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 1157 times:

In a defacto sense, Alaska's service within their namesake state is a public utlility, upon which many cities/villages are dependent not only for the sole means of inter-city transportation for people but also for basic and vital supplies. With the exception of the Anchorage-Fairbanks corridor, the only access between virtually all points is by air or by sea. Many of Alaska's flights within the state operate at low load factors much of the year; even so service is maintained at levels that reflect Alaska's commitment to providing essential air transport in good times and not-so-good times. Moreover, the state of Alaska is a very high cost place to operate (and to live or to visit!). For both of these reasons, fares are necessarily higher than we typically see for flights of comparable distance in "the lower 48."

To say that Alaska's routes to and within the State of Alaska are subsidized by their West Coast routes is a strawman argument. Except for the considerable feed that Alaska's West Coast routes (and Mexico/DEN/DCA/IAD/BOS-SEA) provide for their SEA-KTN/JNU/ANC/FAI and PDX-ANC routes, there's no way that the "cheap fares 'r us" West Coast market subsidizes anything.



User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 1096 times:

MAH4546,

United operates year-round ANC service from SEA.

They operate summer seasonal service from SFO, DEN and ORD.

United also operates Saturday only summer seasonal service from LAX.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
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