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Malaysia Airlines Prepares For Huge Airbus Order  
User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2286 times:

Flight International reports Malaysia Airlines is in final stages of negotation with Airbus for a huge A340/A320 order. Sources say numbers have been agreed and only finance needs to be finalised.

MAS wants 10 A340-500s, 8 A340-600s and 45 A319/320/321 aircraft plus 17 options.

The deal is complicated by political aspects which could dealay the deal, there has been lobbying in Malaysia by European Governments and Malaysia wants technology transfer and assistance with it's aerospace industry

Malaysia Airlines has become frustrated by Boeing's repeated delays in launching the 777X and it's decision to use the GE90 as the exclusive powerplant for the type.

Malaysia Airlines is expected to chose the CFM-56 to power it's A320s

It looks like Airbus may be about to pull another master stroke!

Regards
James

22 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1934 times:

If this Flight International report is true (I believe so) we will probably see the announcement of this order next week at the Asian Aerospace. Indeed a huge blow for Boeing if it is true. In the meantime it is rumoured that they are also looking on regional planes to replace the current F50 fleet.

Regards
Flying-Tiger



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1911 times:
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So MAS doesn't like GE's on the 777 but has no problem putting them on A320s where it DOES have a choice?? Oh well...

Sammy


User currently offlineFlying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4166 posts, RR: 36
Reply 3, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1906 times:

Don´t forget that their current 737 fleet is CFM56 powered. I´m not a technie winnie but I suppose that it is easier for them to train the maintenance crews for a new CFM generation then for a complete new engine. And there might be the thing that some spare parts are indentical so they don´t have to buy them.

Regards
Flying-Tiger



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1879 times:
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So now their 777s are RR, their 744s are PW, their 737s are CFM, and they are complaining about only having GE as a choice? Must be the price they are complaining about...you would think GE would be able to give them a great package deal if they bought the 777X and 737NG all with GE engines...

Sammy


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12597 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1895 times:

What happens to the 777 then; is that rumour on a thread here a few days back (I think it was you, Flying Tiger?) that MAS was going to offload its unwanted 777s onto SIA and Malaysia would take over SIA's shiny new, lovely A340s?

User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1874 times:

1) The GE90 Sucks, its always got problems with something or another.
2) Boeing are going to be in deep dodo if they dont get their act together soon.

Daryl


User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1865 times:

The GE deal is off, it was reported on the forum earlier. If the airlines want PW or RR, then they can have it.

User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1864 times:

The GE90 is an ETOPS qualified engine with the lowest fuel burn of the 3 competitors and lowest emissions. The ETOPS qualification alone (if you know anything about ETOPS, and not what you think you know, but the facts) should have kept you from your sophmoric comment regarding GE90's. No, I don't work for GE, as a matter of fact, Pratt has a plant near me and I've always felt a kinship with them. This forum deserves a better comment than your comment which sucks. Kind of ironic isn't it, GE90's really don't suck, but your comment does!!! Life, ain't it grand.

User currently offlineDash8 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2005, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1852 times:

Actually GE90's suck. As do all jet engines. They suck air. Yes, beleive it or not, they suck in air at the front, compress it, burn and expand it and use some of that energy to turn the compressors up front.

N754PR, that was a stupid post, and I'm sure your next ones will be better.
Posts like thes have all but made me dissappear from the forum.
Navion is right. Now let's forget about it and move on.

Regards,

Dash8


User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1856 times:

It appears the launch order for the 777X is likely to come from asia. Yet, not a single 777-300 customer anywhere in the world has chosen the GE90, they all wanted the PW or RR engine. It is ironic that the only engine these airlines can have is the GE90, Sorry DeltaAir, airlines are not free to choose the PW or RR engine. If they were, I suspect the 777X orderbook would be much more healthy. As I said before though the GE90 exclusivity deal does not last for the life of the 777X - thank god 

Regards
James


User currently offlineA320 fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

MAS will order Boeings. The Airbus deal is a sham.

User currently offlineRavi From Singapore, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1826 times:

The GE90 exclusivity deal DOES last for the life of the 777X. Besides which the 777X will be launched in the next two weeks. It should also be in the interest of a participating writer to look further into the past than 6 months. There is an incredible amount of reasons why the 777X looks today like it does, and it will squash the A340-500/600 because it is a better airplane, period.

User currently offlineJet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1807 times:

"Boeing confirms that it's exclusive deal with engine maker General Electric on the 777X is not life limited, but subject to a rolling memorandum of understanding, as has been suggested."

Quote:
Flight International
15-21 February 2000
Page 8, Colum 4

Ravi, If you read my other post on the 777X I said it would be launched very soon, with potential orders from Air France, JAL, Emirates, EVA Air, GECAS and ILFC!

Just for the record I don't really have a preference between the 777X and A340-500/600. It is unrealistic to say one aircraft is better than the other, neither has flown (or will for several years) so no fair comparisons may be made. Once flown some aircraft are better than expected (717) and some worse (MD-11) You can't make any judgement until then.

I don't think the deal is a sham, MAS already have a significant A330 fleet, and they will still operate many 747 and 777s. Many airlines have replaced 737s with A320s, why shouldn't MAS? Everyone said "BA won't buy A320s" We all know what happened there!

Regards
Jet Setter


User currently offlineN754PR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1805 times:

Thank you !!

Remember BA's massive problems when they started using the 777 ???, I wonder why their new 777's are RR powered ??. I saw G-YMMA and G-YMMB at Heathrow last month, they look great.

If the GE90 / 777X deal is off that will be great news for many airlines that faced the problem of having different engine types in their fleet. Maybe now CX will get some 777X aircraft.

Daryl



User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1780 times:
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Daryl, the GE90 is a brand new engine, not a derivative like the RR Trent and the PW4000. If you look back, the JT9 on the 747 when first introduced had plenty of problems, and so did the RB211 when it was introduced on the L-1011, i believe, at the time, they were both brand new engines, with new technologies being used. Do you remember Cathay Pacific grounding the Dragon Air A330s due to the problems with the Trents?? So big deal if the GE90 had some teething problems, anything new does. Fact of the matter is, that this engine is probably the only one of the three that has the highest growth potential, plus as posted above provides better fuel burn, and only gets better as it gets bigger. Maybe if GE engines were cheaper, more customers would buy them, but obviously GE likes to make money on their products.

Sammy


User currently offlineNavion From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1015 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1779 times:

Once again you misspeak. The Rolls deal is considered a "quid pro quo" for the deposits on the Rolls engines for cancelled 747-400's. It was a great way to get good engines without paying a penalty, and you'd better believe RR gave BA a sweet deal to convert. The GE90 has excellent reliability figures. Also don't forget, it was the first to go over 100,000 lbs of thrust and it did it easily.

User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1780 times:

Don't be surprised if the GE90 777x is not a success. Many P&W and RR customers will go for maybe the Airbus 340-500 & 600 for their long-range routes. Look at American & Delta, they put the RR Trent 800 on their 777s.

User currently offlineSammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1690 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 1765 times:
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Isnt it true that no matter what engine they choose for the 777X it would still be a new type and not exactly similar to their current Trent or PW4000? Besides, whats cheaper, introducing a brand new type into the fleet, where they may save because the engines similar, but they have to retrain the pilots, and stock spare parts for the new type, or just introducing a new engine into the fleet? I think the latter.

Sammy


User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2937 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 1771 times:

Rumour has it that Malaysia Airlines WILL go Airbus and have possible plans to go ALL Airbus over this decade. The situation at Malaysia Airlines is quite complex.

1. On the subject of the A319/A320/A321 order :

MAS has a large domestic responsibility. Even though the Boeing 737 has ALWAYS formed its backbone since the day the airline was formed when MSA split into MAS and SIA in the late 1960s, MAS has been finding it increasingly difficult to schedule its domestic routes efficiently. Most of MAS' domestic routes now generally run at a loss, due in part to Govt. impositions on fares and frequencies and the new split-operations at Kuala Lumpur since the new KL International Airport opened. Such that many 737s currently based locally fly virtually empty. There were even propositions to split the airline into two - one domestic and one international but late last year, Airbus offered MAS a deal that really would be difficult to turn away - a mix of A321s, A320s and A319s to replace their Boeing 737s. Using this new mix of Airbuses at local feeder hubs would provide MAS with the much needed flexibility in aircraft size. Note that currently, MAS only has the Fokker 50s on routes deemed too expensive for 737s to ply.

MAS is also South-East Asia's largest carrier (in terms of passenger kilometres) - and needs to develop KUL into a 'super-hub' to compete with SIN and BKK regionally. With its current fleet of 737s and A330s operating regionally, MAS has been finding it increasingly difficult to schedule these routes appropriately according to demand. The Airbus mix (this time including its current A330 fleet) again would help solve many problems - the A321 playing a major role in providing an aircraft size in between its current options.

2. On the A330 :

This order secures MAS as an A330 operator - which would be a relief to BOTH Airbus and MAS. Initial disappointment and political wranglings left the fate of MAS' A330 fleet in question. This could lead to MAS making new proposals with Airbus in time for either extra A330-300s or perhaps new A330-200s to fit snuggly into the family.

3. On the A340-500/600 :

MAS has indeed been disappointed by the 777X. MAS signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Boeing to become its launch customer a few years ago - signalling MAS' intent but felt snubbed by Boeing who deemed MAS as a potential risk as launch airline - Boeing wanted other airlines to commit before firming up its design (NB. Boeing was indeed quite right to think so) - so the deal fell through. On the subject of engines, MAS is indeed not keen on the GE90. Indeed it currently operates a mix of engines, but MAS Engineering also provides maintainance for other major airlines in the region and there just isn't enough demand for the GE90 for MAS Engineering to consider it as a (financially) viable addition to the fleet. With the CFM option - MAS feels secure with its tried-and-tested reliability (saving the airline from potentially expensive modifications) and also increases MAS Engineering's potential as a maintainance facility for other airlines.

4. On the A3XX :

MAS has shown increasing interest in the A3XX and would be ideal on certain high-density routes (eg. between KL and London) currently flown with several Boeing 744s a day.

In conclusion, several factors are going into MAS' decision for its next major equipment change - not just the 777X/340 question. MAS is a large airline and although stunted by the last 2 years due to problems in Asia - still has a large potential for growth. Being equally public and nationalised as a company, the management has to please both sets of share-holders with its decision.

Airbus has timed this deal well and should succeed.


User currently offlineAir Taiwan From Australia, joined Dec 1999, 1518 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1754 times:

Dear Mas 777
Do you know what type of aircraft will it use to replace FK50s? ANd will MAS reschedule it's timetable when the new aircraft arrives? The current schedule (international) is quite a mess! Most flights in Asia goes through BKI, which is quite inconvenient.


User currently offlineDeltaAir From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1094 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 1755 times:

On this forum today alone it has been brought to the attention of the people that the new A340NG is still in fact underpowered and that there will have to be another change in the engines. It also is known that Airbus has had severe problems with the wings and fuselage length problems. Even though the A-340NG is racking in orders noone knows what will happen in the next few crucial years for the design and testing stages.

777X: Most on this forum know that Boeing has had its problems and is still having them. MAS is a good customer and is very impressed with its current 777s, as is Air France, Cathay, Emirates, and all American airlines. The new 777s will meet or beat expectations of the A340NG because of the recent lessons learned on the 767-400. The question is who will look to the passengers preference by ordering an aircraft that will get you where you want to go faster (the 777) then its competitor (the A340). And by the way, the A340 has severe cruise problems and climb out problems.


User currently offlineA320 fan From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (14 years 10 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

You guys believe anything Flight International says. MAS will not order A340s. The A320s are a different story.

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