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KLM Sees Airbus Announcement Later Monday  
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1330 times:

AMSTERDAM, July 22 (Reuters) - KLM Royal Dutch Airlines (NYSE:KLM - News) said on Monday it was still negotiating a contract to acquire Airbus planes and expected to announce a deal later.


"Our board is here in Farnborough and they're talking to Airbus now. If they agree, there will be an announcement at 3 p.m. (1400 GMT) KLM spokesman Bart Koster told Reuters by telephone from the Farnborough air show in England."

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020722/airlines_klm_airbus_2.html

Hmmmmm Exiting ...

Place your bets

- Yes or No Airbusses ?
- If Yes how many orders ?
- How many options ?


16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 1, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1288 times:

The conventional wisdom is that there'll be an order for 12 A330-200s; possibly as many options and AI might well try to persuade KL to give preference to the 330 for future developments - maybe a few High Gross Weight -300s for African and Middle Eastern flights.

User currently offlineLeej From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 300 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1288 times:

Well, seeing as Boeing can't be bothered to visit Farnborough (apparently they don't see airshows as cost effective marketing), I think the answer is a forgone conclusion!

User currently offlineAirbus_A340 From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2000, 1560 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1270 times:

I hope the announcement i positive and that KLM announces orders for the A330's!

Trevor



People. They make an airline. www.cathaypacific.com
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 4, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1254 times:

I wonder what cabin layout KLM will order (still a stupid move IMO, hope it's just a shortterm lease until the SC is available)... The standard cabin described on the AB website offers more legroom than KLM has in its aircraft while having 70 more seats. In standard KLM layout (31" seatpitch in economy) that difference would grow to 80-90 seats (or over a third more capacity).
Or is there an A330 combi somewhere (knowing KLMs love for combis) that offers say 230 seats plus a third of the cabin made into a cargobay?...



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineVoodoo From Niue, joined Mar 2001, 2101 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 1233 times:

Wasn't KLM expected to order some FD728s, pre-insolvency, at this F'borough?
I wonder how quick they'd be to turn to Embraer...?



` Yeaah! Baade 152! Trabi of the Sky! '
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 1210 times:

Yes, KLM was in the running for some 20 728s I believe. Don't know what they'll get instead, with the A330 order seemingly close maybe A318s?


I wish I were flying
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 7, posted (12 years 5 months 3 days ago) and read 1183 times:

Never KLM A318s, the 737 will remain the mainline narrowbody in KLMs fleet for some time to come. The A318 would only be interesting if they'd switch to the A-320 family. KLM is very happy with the Fokker jet family and will use them for maybe a decade more. The Do728 was meant for replacing the remaining F-50s. But the main competitors, the Emb and CRJ regional products, will now be head-to head. Expect an order for KLC and KLuk combined within a year.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1163 times:

Just speculation  Smile/happy/getting dizzy
KLM is very happy with Boeings overall, they're very happy with the 767 too. Personally I expect an A320 order soon if KLM indeed orders A330s. It's the only thing that makes sense, else the number of Airbusses in their fleet will be too small.
The 737-400 and -300 are slated to be replaced soonish too, up to now the 737-800 and -900 were the logical choices for fleet commonality reasons but the 777-200 is the logical choice in that respect as a 767-300ER replacement as well (reduce the fleet by another type).
An A320 order of about 25 aircraft would give KLM a fleet of about 40 Airbusses. Add another 20 A318s to replace the F100 and F70 and you have a sizeable fleet that can sustain itself (pilots can move from one Airbus to another OR one Boeing to another and need no crosstraining to an aircraft with a completely different control philosophy, same with groundcrew).

For an F50 replacement, I think the ATR-42 (is there a replacement for that one on the drawingboard yet?) is the most logical choice as KLM operates the type already. They got rid of their only 3 ERJs earlier this year, so I don't see those making a quick comeback.
ATR is also an EADS company, making a package deal even sweeter.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineLj From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1114 times:

Well, seeing as Boeing can't be bothered to visit Farnborough (apparently they don't see airshows as cost effective marketing), I think the answer is a forgone conclusion!

Well at least Boeings lunch was good enough for two KLM B777's. Now we've to wait whether Airbus's diner is also good enough for an order


User currently offlineLarspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1084 times:

to jwenting:

klm (exel) still uses her embraer's.
2 fly with klm crew in africa
and 1 is used for charters


and i personally don't see airbus 320 aircraft in the klm fleet..
you don't need big numbers of airbus aircraft in your fleet to make money on them. you have to make sure you don't have to many types in your fleet so why buy airbus 320 family a/c when you have 737ng's?

lars



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

Jwenting wrote:
I wonder what cabin layout KLM will order (still a stupid move IMO, hope it's just a shortterm lease until the SC is available)...

Haven't you read the writing on the wall yet? The SC is dead - postponed indefinately. Boeing just doesn't want to admit it yet. An SC-like aircraft won't happen for *many* years to come.

Personally I expect an A320 order soon if KLM indeed orders A330s. It's the only thing that makes sense, else the number of Airbusses in their fleet will be too small.

There are *many* airlines with a Airbus fleet far fewer than 12 widebodies, and yet they still seem to be able to have enough crews and do maintenance...  Smile Economics rule (hence no SC), fleet commonality is vastly overrated in this forum.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 1056 times:

SC is far from dead Swede, however much you'd like it to be. Just because Boeing isn't building a factory for it doesn't mean the project has been cancelled.

It takes years for an aircraft to reach production stage, especially one as revolutionary as SC.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineLarspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

to jwenting
check www.boeing.com/news/releases..
more news on the sc.



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1053 times:

If not, why this pressrelease about the SC made only today: ttp://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2002/q3/nr_020722g.html
http://boeingmedia.com/boeingmedia/images/one.cfm?image_id=4971&release=t



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4358 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 994 times:

Interesting theory, let's just wait and see if KLM ever flies Airbus narrowbodies  Smile/happy/getting dizzy. Maybe I am more chauvinist than you, but the ATR, even the -500s, doesn't offer any more comfort and technological advanceness than the F-50s. They want to get rid of the prop aircraft within a few years as their business passengers complain it's "slow", "old fashioned" "flying doctors" aicraft.
Don't forget it was Exel, who has more financial independency from KLM than Cityhopper, which ditched the ERJ as their financial situation is bad and their ERJ-suitable routes MST-MUC and -Milan didn't work, while the ATR is fine for AMS-MST, AMS-EIN and MST-London and such. For Cityhopper, a smaller regional jet, especially the ERJ, would be great for longer routes now served by the "slow" F-50, like Bristol, Cardiff and maybe new routes to northern Italy, Spain, southern France, for which the F-70, let alone a 737/A320 family member, sometimes is a little too big.



nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 974 times:

Sorry but hasn't nobody noticed the fact that KLM is buying all the F70 available on the market? This may not be an answer for the long run but the F70 will take over most of the F50 work in the foreseeable future.

MEA707, the majority of medium haul flights which used to be oeprated with the F50 (like Bristol and Cardiff) are now mostly operated with the F70. Only DUS, BRU and a few other very short haul flight get the F50


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