Skippy777 From Netherlands, joined Dec 2001, 709 posts, RR: 1 Posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5673 times:
KLM AND AIRBUS SIGN LETTER OF INTENT
FOR THE PURCHASE OF AIRBUS A330-200 AIRCRAFT
AMSTELVEEN, July 22, 2002 – KLM Royal Dutch Airlines and Airbus today announced they have signed a letter of intent for the purchase of six Airbus A330-200 aircraft, for delivery from early 2005. The airline has additionally acquired purchasing rights for a further eighteen aircraft of the same type. The two companies released the joint announcement today at the UK’s bi-annual Farnborough Air Show. KLM has assured a high degree of flexibility by combining a firm order with purchasing rights, enabling the carrier to respond adequately to market developments in the coming years.
With this order, KLM has taken a further step towards detailing its intercontinental fleet renewal program. Earlier this year, the airline announced it would be replacing its currently operated Boeing 747-300 fleet, and two MD-11 aircraft, with ten Boeing 777-200 Extended Range full-passenger airliners and three Boeing 747-400 Extended Range Freighters (ERF).
In the second phase of KLM’s fleet program, planned for 2005 through 2010, the airline will replace its remaining eight MD-11s and twelve Boeing 767-200ERs with a combination of A330-200s and additional Boeing 777-200ER equipment. Today’s announcement was the first step towards implementing this second phase.
“In daily operations, the Airbus A330-200 has proven to be an aircraft providing excellent operational and commercial performance, with high levels of efficiency and flexibility, generating a high degree of passenger appreciation,” said KLM Chief Operating Officer Peter Hartman. “This aircraft type will also contribute to achieving our goal of minimizing the impact of our operations on the environment in the vicinity of airports. I should also point out that the fact that our alliance partner Northwest Airlines has also ordered the A330 opens new perspectives for our alliance in the areas of operations, handling, maintenance, and product specification.”
“Airbus Industrie is very happy to welcome KLM back as customer,” said Airbus president Noël Forgeard. “KLM sets high quality standards for aircraft manufacturers’ products and services. We regard the enthusiasm for the A330 displayed by KLM and its partner Northwest Airlines as major indicators of the quality of this aircraft’s design and technology, and for its added operational and commercial value.”
KLM will operate the A330-200 on routes in the 250-seat market.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10017 posts, RR: 29 Reply 2, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5531 times:
Let's just hope KLM does not follow those other European Airbus operators into severe trouble and possible bankruptcy:
SABENA
Swissair
Aer Lingus
Lufthansa
Alitalia
etc. etc. etc.
At least if they turn the options into firm orders it will be something of a viable number. A followup order for smaller Airbusses would make sense...
Sas a340 From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5480 times:
I think I get the point: KLM originaly ordered 8 777 and 3 747ERF to replace the 747 classics. then they changed 2 of 777options for orders to replace 2 MD-11, today they ordered 2 more 777(that's 4 MD-11 to be replaced) and 6 a330 that's a total of 10 MD-11 to be replaced.
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 802 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5475 times:
there must be something about the A332 am i wrong or is that a winner AC? i bet if AI would come up with a true A300 successor, they could not come up with deliveries.
@ jw: did not know that lh was drifting into bankruptcy. thought they were a money machine.
TP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 5396 times:
Jwenting, maybe KLM knows better than you, ever thought
of that?
The fact is that, even though you persist in denial,
the A332 is the better aircraft in its market segment
and KLM is making the "mistake" of wanting the better
aircraft.
Why don't you simply admit you were wrong on this one
instead of annoying everybody with your adolescent
whinings about a supposed "Airbus Curse".
Jeez...
Mt99 From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 4095 posts, RR: 9 Reply 8, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5354 times:
I find it interesting that they mention thier alliance with NW as a factor of their choice to "share" maintenace. It has always been said in the forum, when specualting on aircraft orders, the role of partner airlines orders. I believe that this is the first time that and airlines has publicly declared this. Am I correct?
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3053 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 5321 times:
Congratulations to both Boeing and Airbus for getting the orders and to KLM who doesn't look at which manufacturer is best but only looks whichb plane is best for KLM!
I'm very glad we finally can put a big . behind any discussion about the future KLM long haul fleet allthough......
Today’s announcement was the first step towards implementing this second phase.
ehhhhh, what's next?????
Jwenting, since when does Alitalia operate the A330????????. BTW you forgot to mention good old USAiways.
Arsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7753 posts, RR: 32 Reply 10, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5241 times:
Great news, and great news for Airbus, they have finally broken the KLM deadlock on airbus products. I wonder where KLM will use it's A330's, long and medium haul routes to the Middle east/Africa and North america?
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 3053 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5210 times:
Arsenal, Just look where all the B767s and MD-11 are going to and you'll see that you're question can be answered positively. Moreover you'll probably see them also at LHR.
National_757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 5175 times:
Layoff Jwenting TP and every1 else.
He is just pointing out the airlines that ordered the A330 and then got into severe trouble and possible bankruptcy. You can't argue the facts. Of course, Airbus isn't responsible for the financial problems of some of the airlines Jwenting mentioned.
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10017 posts, RR: 29 Reply 14, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5091 times:
You're the only one that got it National (though I included also airlines ordering other Airbusses and getting into trouble).
Remember that shareholders and customers are often superstitious...
The A330 is an excellent aircraft, and time will have to tell whether it is so too for KLM. Remember that KLM tried Airbusses before and was disappointed. That was in the same market segment they're now buying the A330, the B767 replaced A310s KLM was NOT happy with (why else replace them 10+ years before the planned replacement date).
SAS, AFAIK the total KLM 777 order now stands at 10, but it could be the pressrelease for the A330 deal did not take the 777 order also signed today into account (it mentions 10 777s only).
Konstantin, LH had a severe loss last year and is not doing much better this year. KLM last year had (over the entire year) a lower loss than LH had over the 1st quarter of this year alone. KLM is now running a profit again, LH is (AFAIK) still in the red.
TP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5084 times:
Huh, National?
Don't you think that Jwenting can argue his points by himself?
If, as you say, "Airbus isn't responsible for the financial problems of some of the airlines Jwenting mentioned", than why did he mention it in the first
place, in a KLM orders thread that has nothing to do with such discussion?
(as you seem to agree)
By the way I happen to think that the A332 has a curse.
That curse has fallen upon the 767 in the last years...
Manni From South Korea, joined Nov 2001, 4221 posts, RR: 25 Reply 16, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5085 times:
Very nice indeed!
6 A330-200 and purchase rights of a further 18 A330-200s, that could make a total of 24 aircraft. Perhaps the MD11 and 767 fleet will be replaced by only A330 aircraft and not a mix of 777 and 330 aircraft.
AeroGlobeAir7 From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 586 posts, RR: 3 Reply 17, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5053 times:
Won't the ordering of these A330s and integration of them into KLM's all Boeing fleet increase crew training costs (pilots transitioning will have to get all new training to fly the Airbus, and that's expensive, or is it just me?). Just wondering, since that's why so many airlines chose Airbus or Boeing over another, to keep their fleets streamlined.
Andrew
AeroGlobeAir7
BABY BOEINGS ALL THE WAY!!!
FLY DELTA JETS!
TWA 4EVER
Keesje From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10190 posts, RR: 52 Reply 19, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 4984 times:
Is there any advantage to have 777 iso a330 when an airline already operates 737, 767 and 747 aircraft ?
As far as I can see the 777 is a totaaly new generation aircraft for KLM. Commonality with other Boeing Aircraft in term of maintenance, training etc are very limited just like the Airbus 330.
Well perhaps there isn´t an 8 houre time difference when you need product support from Toulouse and a truck can do the distance in a day, a plane in an hour..
Larspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 433 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4959 times:
#keesje
Well perhaps there isn´t an 8 houre time difference when you need product support from Toulouse and a truck can do the distance in a day, a plane in an hour..
this line doesn't end up..
afaik boeing and klm were starting a joint-venture parts-center in amsterdam for all the boeing parts there are..
so if they would need something.. they only got to get it out their own garage.
but i see your point.
b777's and the A330 is a beautiful combi. which fits klm just perfect for their needs.
lars from eham
Dutchjet From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 7864 posts, RR: 61 Reply 21, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4944 times:
I thought that we would see a bigger initial order for the type, only 6? According to KLM, they now have 3 744ERFs on order to replace the 743 Freighters, plus 10 777s on order to replace 8 743s and 2 MD11s, and 6 A332s to replace (I guess) 6 763s.
That still leaves 8 MD11s and 6 763s to go (another 14 aircraft) plus potential expansion. I thought that with Phase 2 would atleast cover replacement of all MD11s, if not the 763s. Maybe this is only part one of phase 2?
A388 From Netherlands Antilles, joined May 2001, 5860 posts, RR: 15 Reply 23, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4918 times:
I'm also very glad to see KLM ordering the A330-200 as this aircraft proved to be the best aircraft in its class. The A332 has sold very well in recent years, outselling Boeing's 764. More airlines put their trust in this aircraft by ordering/leasing (more of) this aircraft. Besides the aircraft's economical performances, I personally think the A332's combination of range and cargo capacity is an attractive feature. Hopefully we will see more Airbus aircraft types entering KLM's fleet although I do not see this happen.
KLM-MD11 From Greece, joined Mar 2002, 469 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (7 years 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 4873 times:
Talking about Air Orange, (SKIPPY777), haven't heard from Air Orange for a while now... He on vacation or so??
I'd love to see more of his (new) designs, they're great!!
KLM-MD11
GELUK IS GELUL MET EEN K
25 Luxair: Enfin, that are good news and I'm realy happy about KLM's decision to order both AC's and I think that both will do very fine in KLM's longhaul fleet.
26 Larspl: air orange his site is also down.. who knows more?
27 Lj: Today’s announcement was the first step towards implementing this second phase. Dutchjet, I think this part of the pres release explains a lot t
28 Udo: Jwenting, National, You take two ridiculous examples and make a conclusion out of this. Every statistics amateur can only laugh at you... ...and you d
29 Vunz: From airbus.com: KLM ROYAL DUTCH AIRLINES TO ACQUIRE UP TO 24 A330-200 JULY 22, 2002 KLM Royal Dutch airlines have signed an Memorandum of Understandi
30 Dalecary: I believe KLM have around 20 more options/purchase rights on the 777. So, it will be interesting to see the final mix of 777s/330s in the fleet. A goo
31 Keesje: Seems like it will be all cargo or all pax from now on. I think the twenty-something 747-400's are mostly combi's and will fly on for a long time. Vie
32 Jwenting: At least 5 of the 747-400s (data on the latest few isn't on KLMs site) are full pax, 16 or more are combis. The interior layout of the A330s is not an
33 Wietse: And operates them as no other airline as well...
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am i wrong or is that a winner AC? i bet if AI would come up with a true A300 successor, they could not come up with deliveries. 
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