ORD From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1371 posts, RR: 1 Posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4222 times:
As reported by Aviation Daily on 7/18 (below are my words summarizing the article):
Delta just completed a three-month study with consultant McKinsey & Co. to determine the best way to deal with low-cost competition. The strategy is expected to be presented to the airline's board soon.
The report has no "magic bullet." But it does focus on fleet adjustments, fare changes and brand changes. Delta will keep Express but it will be a revised version.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of this.
AirT85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4146 times:
When DL started Express, i believe it was to bypass the Atlanta hub from cities that could easily support nonstop service to Florida, as well as keep Southwest from stealing lots of market share on the NE to FLA routes. Now, we may see Delta refine Express into a "true" lowcost subsidiary, and turn it into what MetroJet was supposed to be and sortof what United Shuttle was. The difference is Delta and DLexpress arent saddled with USAirways HIGH operating costs like MetroJet was. Who knows i could be completely wrong but this is all i could think of when it comes to refining express.
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 4105 times:
I hope you're right. A new DL express with newly hired B scale pilots and FAs, as well as contracted ramp personnel. New 738s with IFE as well. Get your costs down to JB's or WN's and DL will own Florida again. Maybe the pilots will go for this if it means additional jobs and/or saving their own jobs. Pay scales could be set to parity with JB,WN, and Airtrans.
FutureSQPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4061 times:
Could this possibly mean a change in product to something like say...that of JB? After flying DLX rustbucket 732s a few times I will always choose another airline in the future...who would fly DLX when they have the choice of JB or even WN?
AirT85 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 4041 times:
Maybe Delta will exercise their 737NG options and get some 737-700s (or even -800s if we want to get really optimistic hehe) for Delta Express. The 732s are not that old but they will have to go sometime, and what better time than now when you reorganize the operation?
FlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6273 posts, RR: 24 Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3968 times:
There's a big change coming to DLX and it will be interesting to see if it works.
I've seen quite a few rumors. Many point to a replacement of the 732 which is inadequate to take on WN's new 737's and JB's A320's. Possibly DL might order some new planes, but DL really wants to keep capital expenditures down. Also, this plan is supposed to go into effect this winter which is not enough time for new planes.
One possible story is to shift some of the 733's and maybe 757's into Express and then send the 732's back to regular mainline. Chautauqua also plays a role in builing up regional feed and frequencies in many SE markets...not the Northeast though.
Padcrasher, I think you're dreaming if you think the DL pilots are going to allow another B-scale operation in. It's not going to happen and no matter what DL does they will never have operating costs as low as JBLU and WN.
Whatever DL's new strategy is, they better hope it works, otherwise DL could find itself in a lot of trouble down the road.
Padcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3920 times:
Trouble down the road is exactly what I hope will convince the DL pilots that a buffer (ie DLX) is exactly what is needed between DL mainline and the low cost carriers. TW, U, and UA are three examples of airlines that have succumb to these forces already. After the other Majors have cannibalized their own WN, JB, and AAI will still be knocking on the door. The only way to match these guys is to get your labor costs down and productivity up. This is the reality I hope DL ALPA will eventually come around to see.
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3777 posts, RR: 30 Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3892 times:
ORD: Please explain how "fleet adjustments, fare changes and brand changes" can be interpreted as an "attack on low-fare airlines." To me, it sounds much more like a case of a U.S. network airline waking up to the new realities of the domestic air travel market and announcing a plan to deal with it. It's far more a survival plan IMO than an attack -- if it is anything at all of the latter.
Bucky707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1028 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3883 times:
I am a Delta pilot, and speaking strictly for myself, I would accept an expanded DLX, with whatever kind of airplane they choose to put on it. Frankly, we need to get our costs more in line with the competition (JB,AirTran, SW) or we will die. I would agree to a DLX operation which gets paid the same as Southwest. Delta and all the majors need to change their whole way of operating. In the future, I don't think you can count on overcharging the business travelor to get most of you revenue. We need to get our fare and cost structure to a point where we can make money based on leisure flyers.
I will now stand by for other pilots to tell me how screwed up I am.
Wilcharl From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1158 posts, RR: 3 Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3843 times:
I have a problem with anyone that complains about the DLX -200s they are beautiful birds the ones i flew on were on par with any DL aircraft. They are not old ... NOT OLD NOT OLD NOT OLD... dl was one of the last customers for the -200... the last one i was on was built in 1986 i believe. Yes the equipment itself is dated, i could see a two class product or a single class leather seat product kind of like the DL shuttle or JetBlue opperating almost as a wholy owned subsidiary with b line pilots and crews. offer the pax an incentive to fly them over FL (as if just the fact that they are not FL isnt enough) the key is going to be INOVATIVENESS thats what WN FL JetBlue all have in common... DL is going to ahve to be INNOVATIVE... hell
BRING BACK MEALS on flights.. BOS-MCO is a long flight.. bring back meals... i know the cost involved in catering an a/c is high... but work it in...
GD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 11 Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3770 times:
I agree with Wilcharl, the DLX 732's are far from "rustbuckets", they may look old, but they are still sturdy, reliable aircraft. I would fly DLX over WN any day, WN dosen't have reserved seating, with DLX, you can call um up and reserve the seats you want. Call me crazy, but I think an aircraft is not necssicarily better because it is newer. I love those 732's
Thumper From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 550 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3767 times:
I agree there is nothing wrong with Delta's 737-200's They are not that old! WN will find out shortly they are going to have to deal with there pilots contracts,and will start paying better money! JB and Airtran are new and have new fleets wait till they get older and need more maintenance and costs go up! They are not that much cheaper than Delta now!
FutureSQPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3725 times:
As far as an operational standpoint...no they are not rustbuckets, and I know that some are only 17 years old with a possible 13 years or so left in their life. I realize that many aviation fans appreciate the old planes...but I would imagine that the common customer would go for a newer A320 with leather seats, new interior, satellite PTV in every seat over an "aging" 732 with an old, uncomfortable interior and no IFE. I know that no IFE is not the end of the world...but if you were paying a lower price for the airline with the IFE and the overall better product, which would you choose? Also, the above picture of DL 732 honestly looks nothing like much of the DLX fleet...the DLX 732 that I flew on last honestly looked even worse than this...
GD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 11 Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3718 times:
FutureSQPilot: Up here in New England, we don't have Jetblue and, as far as I know, they don't have any plans to start service, so it's between DLX and WN, the only place Jetblue serves Florida from is JFK, while DLX serves:
BOS, PVD, BDL, ISP, JFK, EWR, IAD, CMH, and IND from
MCO, TPA, RSW, PBI, and FLL in Florida.
Also, I find the interiors perfectly fine, they aren't the most comfortable things in the world, but they aren't "uncomfortable".
2cn From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 648 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3731 times:
FutureSQPilot- the average common customer won't know or care that they are flying on a 732 vs a newer A320... it seems too many people on this site, when talking about what the common passenger would prefer.. they use too much of their "airline knowhow" in their opinions and forget the average customer does not know that they are flying on a 737 vs a 777 (yes... if you doubt this, believe me.. I heard a lady refer to the MD11 I was flying on from ATL to DFW as a 737 one minute, a 757 the next, then even said on her cell phone that they dont make 747s anymore and maybe it was a 777?! This, while she had a seat in row 50 something- she was talking loud on her cell and I was sitting near her waiting to board and heard all of this.) Even when it comes down to price, Delta Express is still cheaper then jetBlue for the same departure day, coming back the same day, etc... at least on the day I just checked (though it was only 40 bucks less.. to a family of four, that is a big difference.. even to a college kid.. think of how much beer that would buy? )
FutureSQPilot From United States of America, joined Jul 2002, 147 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3693 times:
GD727- With JB not serving your area, you may need to take DLX, but which airline would you chose if you had the choice?
2cn- I live near RSW...and many of my friends and some other people that I have talked to have talked about how JB has satellite tv, leather seats, etc, and how they fly on JB whenever possible. These friends have no interest in Commercial Aviation. I don't want to turn this into a JB vs. DLX battle because I know that they are two very different operations, but couldn't DLX grab some more business if they improved their product and marketed it agressively?
Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3777 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 3512 times:
ORD: Thanks for explaining the reason for your choice of title for your new topic post. Sounds to me like the typlical torturing of our language commonly practiced by the tabloid journalists who pervade mainstream media in the U.S. today -- who pander to an audience with an attention span measured in fractions of one second.
GD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 11 Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3476 times:
GD727- With JB not serving your area, you may need to take DLX, but which airline would you chose if you had the choice? Actually, I would take whoever was cheaper and had the best times ect, and if all that was the same, I would probobly still take DLX bacause I personally do not like Airbus.
*Please Note: I am not trying to start an A vs B war, It is just my opinion.