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Is It Smarter To Replace Old 747's With New 777's?  
User currently offlineAsianaAirlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 198 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

I was thinking about Asiana. I'm sure everybody knows that Asiana's fleet of 747 combis are getting kinda raggety and old. But does anybody know what would be better?... Asiana replacing the whole 747 fleet with 772ER's and the upcoming 773ER's? or Asiana just replacing the 747 fleet with more combi's?

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5353 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Ah I don't get it!

All those Combi's are 744's the oldest is around 12-13 years old, last time I heard there are still 30 year old 741's and 742's flying!

A 777 though is cheaper and more economical in nowa days than a 747!
I haven't heard anything about Asiana replacing it's 744M's so they will be in the fleet for a few more years yet! Asiana are an airline that seems to like the extra cargo capacity in it's pax planes!! I spose in the future we may see Asiana replace it's 744M's with 772ER's and 773ER's due to the 777's great cargo capacity.


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 3091 times:

The B777s burns relatively less fuel than the B747s but it carries less passengers. I guess it depends on the airline? If the airline uses the B747s on high density longhaul routes I don't think the B777 would be much of a good replacement.

Cheers



Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

IMHO it's a good idea replacing 747-100/200 with 777-300. The operating costs are 40% cheaper on the 777 when compared to older 747. In those dense Asian markets you can cram a lot of seats onto a 777-300 so it's not like your losing any passengers.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9189 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2907 times:

How many B 747-400s do they have? And how many of them are combis?

Are they replacing the entire B 747-400 Fleet?

Personally, I haven't heard anything about Asianna Replacing its B 747-400 Combis in the NEAR future. To be frank, they still very new.


User currently offlineAsianaAirlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 198 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2850 times:

They have 8 747's. 6 of them combi's and 2 of them just PAX. They arent replacing the 747's in the near future, but I'm just supposing what they would do. I would really like to see they're old 747's out of the picture. I think that replacing the 747's with the 777 is a pretty decent idea.

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5353 posts, RR: 11
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

I count 13 744's including
5 400F's
6 400M's
2 400 full pax


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9189 posts, RR: 15
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2829 times:

So will they replace the ENTIRE B 747-400 Fleet with B 777s? Or with newer B 744s?

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10766 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

If an airline can fill a 744 its smarter to stay with the Jumbo Jet. Boeing claims it still offers the lowest seat-mile costs, even compared to the 777!

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2803 times:

These are the maximum number of passengers for the three respective planes:

747-400: 624
747-200: 550
777-300: 550

So, not regarding cargo space (how´s that in a 773 compared to 747s?), a 777-300 can only replace a 747-200 without a reduction in capacity.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineHkg82 From Hong Kong, joined Apr 2002, 1306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2787 times:

It's bound to happen eventually, 747s are great but they are old & newer planes can out-perform them in most ways.

Hkg82.


User currently offlineRickB From United Kingdom, joined May 2003, 243 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

In terms of daily economics, the 777 is clearly the winner, however, most of these 747's are paid for, or leased on very low payments, before replacing a fleet because they cost more to fly, you have to consider how long its going to take before they recoup the initial investment in new hardware.

The 30% saving on fuel is relatively small compared to a $130,000,000+ investment in a new aircraft - it will take a while for that 30% to pay back the initial investment - although maintenance costs have to be factored in too.

The other point as already made, is a lot of Asian routes are very high density, in which case, if you lose a substantial number of seats 70+ that's going to hurt, it might even mean the 30% loss is worthwhile at least in the short term.


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2709 times:

airsicknessbag,
who on this planet operates the 747-400 configured to 624 pax?
who has posted this info? boeing?

i dont beleive that 624



ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineUnited777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1657 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2678 times:

I just flew on a Asiana Airlines 777-200 and it was one of the best flight I've been on. I think Asiana should take more 777-200's. It is good for it's routes right now.

User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2647 times:

Ual777contrail,

no airline is operating a 624 seat all economy 747-400 - and no airline is operating a 550 seat 777-300 either. But keep in mind the 747-400 Domestic JL and NH use (568 seats) are two-class: there are 24 (!) F seats on board - the number of seats in theory in an all economy configuration could be 624.

Now, where did I get this number - hmm, good question. I guess I didn´t bother remembering the source when I first heard it, sorry.

The thing is, when comparing planes´ capacities, I like to calculate with the highest possible number. Because otherwise, you get "standard three class configurations", and then you don´t know what exactly is meant by that.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

airsicknessbag,
i wasnt trying to queston you i guess i was in awe at how many seats that it could hold.
i just wondered if there was in fact an airline that had that many seats on one givin plane.

i remember UNITED use to have 2 class 747's to hawaii didnt they?

i wonder how many seats on that one.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1803 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2590 times:

Just flew OZ from LA to Seoul on a 744Combi and came back on full pax 744, they keep those planes in top condition.............from a purely passenger point of view I saw no need to replace them in the short term.


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

Boeing must think that it is; they targeted the 777-300 to do just that. Similar in capacity to the 747-100 and 200, it burns about a third less fuel and has 40% lower maintenance costs according to sources I've seen. Then again, Airbus would want you to look at their A340-600 which probably can't produce quite the same cost savings but gives you that 4 engine feel of security on long flights (if, indeed, that matters to you).

User currently offlineKaitakfan From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1588 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

777Contrail to answer your question of the 747-100 United used to Hawaii the configuration was 42 in first class with 16 first class seats on the upper deck 26 seats in the nose. Economy was 408 seats. The grand total is 450 seats. Can you say Cattle Cart?!?

User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2505 times:

Asiana started in 1988, so how "old" can their 747-400's be? (since they only use the 400 model). There are still some 747's flying from 1970 (UPS operates a few 747-121SF's). The last Asiana 747 I saw looked beautiful and certainly well maintained.

Many airlines are replacing 747-100/200 with the 777 since they offer more or less the same amount of passengers and operate more economically (and newer planes are easier to maintain that old ones). Asiana uses combi's on some routes and that would be a mitigating factor in determining a replacement.


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