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USA Puts Pressure On Taiwan To Prevent AI Order  
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

New action from our free-trade friends:

(Information from a udn news quote in the orders group and this FT article)

China Airlines wanted to order 16 A330s in order to replace the 12 A306 they still have. "Boeing has cut it's price twice for the 777, but the price is
USD$205million higher than A330. Plus the 5-year maintainance and
operating cost, the difference will be USD$350million.
CI claims that the commonality between A330 and A340 is 85%. As a
result, China Airlines was "almost" going to announce A330 order on
the 18th.."


The decision was to be made on 10th July and to be announced on the 18th July. However, "US Government has asked for emergency meeting from Taiwan's highest Government authroity, showing "Bush's concern",
and "Taiwan should have FRIENDLY REPLY towards US' help to Taiwan in
the military defence"."


For the full UDN news quote, check the order-group post by jiml1126.

- Same thing as with El Al, A330 is the superior plane and the airline is forced by the US government to buy the inferior plane...

136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 1, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4363 times:
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It bloody sucks when politics/politicians stick their butts into aviation matters.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 2, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

I would hope that Israel, Taiwan etc would give something back for all the bullshit the US gets for supporting their Governments.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineGKirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24964 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4338 times:

The A330 only has 1 competing a/c, the 767-400ER, which as we all know is a commercial failure so far...the 777 is a much bigger a/c, so why should CI order the 777 when it's too big for them, and the 764 hasnt proven to be as succesful as the 332.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineWingman From Seychelles, joined May 1999, 2335 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4337 times:

Too bad everyone does it ALL the time. As I said in an earlier post on this same subject, an implicit guarantee of protection in the face of an overwhelming amount of surrounding force, or in Israel's case, at least an overwhelming desire to remove from the face of the Earth, is worth something isn't it? Shit, the US risks the haterd and ire of the Chinese government every time Taiwan feels the pressure. Last time I checked, the general EU response was "not my problem mate". Add to that the enormous trade deficit we run with Taiwan and you start building case for some 777 sales. The EU engages in the same exact practices but EU-bashing doesn't sell papers, US-bashing does. Anyway, it certainly doesn't hurt to ask does it? I don't think anyone is "forcing" Taiwan to do anything. That's a ludicrous overstatement that merely exposes the writer's hatred for the very government that guarantees his freedom of speech, cause he ain't gonna have any when the mainlanders take his pen away and tell him to shut the hell up.

Wingman
Proud citizen of the evil Satan-worshipping United States of America


User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 5, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Wingman, you have earned my utmost respect with that post.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineQatarAirways From Qatar, joined Sep 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 4314 times:

Gkirk,

The A330-200 is the competitor of the B767-400ER. The A330-300 competes with Boeings B777-200. Both have similar passenger capacity but the A330-300 has more cargo volume.


User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4300 times:

So Airbus is very wrong to sell a cheaper product but its OK for the mighty USA to ORDER people to buy its planes. Is this the only way they can sell planes ?

Any of you go to Farnborough and see the great show from Boeing  Smile/happy/getting dizzy


User currently onlineHamlet69 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2750 posts, RR: 58
Reply 8, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4294 times:

Racko,

"Same thing as with El Al, A330 is the superior plane and the airline is forced by the US government to buy the inferior plane..."

I've already posted this in the previous discussion on CI's pending order, but it appears people still don't like letting facts get in the way of their bias. El Al wanted both the 772ER and the A332. After they ordered their 777's, they "reviewed" their finances and determined they did not have enough money to introduce two new types into the fleet at the same time, especially when they have had no prior experience with Airbus products. Of course, no one is going to deny that this "review" was 95% prompted by U.S. suggestion. However, saying the U.S. forced El Al to buy 777's over A330's is flat out wrong. (I'll leave the "superior/inferior" bull***t to those who like starting ignorant flame wars)


Now, concering CI, it does indeed look like politics might again make China Airlines get an aircraft they don't want. First it was the A340s for long-range routes. Now it could well be 777s for regional routes. Hopefully the Taiwanese gov't will proceed with CI's full privatization so this nonesense will end.

Regards,

Hamlet69



Honor the warriors, not the war.
User currently offlineClickhappy From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 9664 posts, RR: 68
Reply 9, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4289 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
PHOTO SCREENER

No worries, cut Taiwan to the sharks (ROC). They buy Boeing anyways...

User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4288 times:

Ummm.. considering it will be the USA putting its ass on the line if (when) China decides to invade Taiwan, I think a request to reconsider the China Airlines decision is warranted.

Or are you saying the EU would be "right there" to protect Taiwan? (Considering most European airlines are too afraid of China to even use their REAL names when flying to Taiwan, -- witness KLM Asia, Air France Cargo Asia, British Asia Airways, etc. -- I kind of doubt it).


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13740 posts, RR: 61
Reply 11, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
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The A-330 is superior to the B-777? Um, ok...people, please allow at least 4 hours to pass between taking a hit off the crackpipe and posting on Airliners.net.

If we were talking about the A-330 vs the B-767-400ER, then you might have a point...but sales of the B-777 have nearly equalled orders for both the A-330 and A-340 COMBINED (737 total A-330/A-340 orders, all series compared to 603 B-777 orders, all series).

So now let's be fair and compare the B-767/777 orders to the A-330/A-340 orders. I'll even be generous to Airbus and only take current passenger configured production models (B-767-200ER, -300ER, and -400ER) into account. Let's see...whoa! There are 662 orders for those babies! And that doesn't count the early -200, -300, and -300F models into the equation.

That makes 737 total A-330/A-340 orders compared to 1265 B-767/777 orders.

Yep, those pesky Americans must really make a lousy product.  Big grin



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineQatarAirways From Qatar, joined Sep 2008, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4244 times:

Racko,

What Hamlet69 said is correct. From what I have read El Al wanted the A330-200 as a B767 replacement while they still wanted the B777-200ER. Other than the financial pressure El Al was under, the US also put pressure to the Israeli government including a visit by Madeline Albright I believe. But with all the aid they get I agree that the US should get something in return. On the other hand neither Israel nor Taiwan asked for US Taxpayer money at Gun Point. But hey thats politics and shouldn't be discussed here.

EA CO AS,

When comparing sales you have to compare the following:

B767-400ER - A330-200
B777-200 - A330-300
B777-200ER - A340-300
B777-300 - No Direct Competitor (A346 too small)
B777-300ER - " " "
B777-200LR - A340-500
A340-600 - No Direct Competitor 773 too large 772 too small.

But I believe comparing sales isn't the best way to find out which is the best aircraft. The best thing to do is to compare to competing aircraft on different mission profiles.

E.g. Short-Haul flight with little cargo - B767-400ER superior but on longer flights or flights with more payload then the A330-200 would fit better.


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 13, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4234 times:

I always thought that was funny, airlines and Governments being afraid to show their real colors.

Here are some airlines/ Countries with no balls


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Benjamin PO Yu
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Marlon



Airlines/ Countries with balls


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Arthur Yu
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Edward Lai





Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13740 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4214 times:
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QatarAirways-

Let me get this straight...you do NOT believe that the number of sales has a direct correlation to superiority of one product versus another? It occurs to me that if one product line clearly has many more orders than another, then that line would seem to have the superior product.

Right? Or are you saying that the people who ordered from Boeing are just poor misguided souls who weren't enlightened enough to order a European-made product?

I guess by your logic Madeleine Albright spent her entire tenure doing nothing more than flying around the world pimpin' for Boeing with 767/777 specs in her briefcase, right?



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineB777 From Canada, joined Sep 1999, 368 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 4213 times:

Clickhappy,

ROC (Republic of China)=Taiwan
PROC (People's Republic of China)=China

Ah well, many people get it confused.

Personally, I think CI should have the final say on what it wants. If it thinks the A330 best suits its needs, so be it. Remember, CI choose the 738 over the A320 because it found in its evaluation of those two aircraft (plus the MD90) that the 738 was better suited to the regional routes that CI operates.

By the way, if China does try to forcefully take over Taiwan, there is no guarantee that US will intervene with military action.

James


User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13740 posts, RR: 61
Reply 16, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4199 times:
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James-

The United States signed a mutual defense treaty with Taiwan that requires the U.S. to respond militarily (using up to and including thermonuclear weapons) in the event of a Chinese military offensive to re-take Taiwan.



"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16907 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4180 times:

I thought what QatarAirways had to say was fair and balanced, he would make an excellent reporter.

With regards to the Taiwan situation it's a guarantee that the US would not allow the PROC to invade or attack Taiwan. Even President Clinton kept the policy when in '96 the PROC was test firing missiles and sabre rattling in the Taiwan straights, President Clinton sent TWO Carrier battle groups into the Taiwan straights. The missle tests and PROC's military maneuvers were halted.

We don't keep all those troops in Japan because the Japanse like their company, that's for sure.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBoeingnut From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4171 times:

EA and B777:

Well, I dont think we'd ever go nuclear with China. But we would most definitely put a few carrier groups from the 7th Fleet on the eastern side of Taiwan, so that our a/c would be protected from incoming PRC a/c, but our would still have long enough legs to hit any aggressive forces. Not to mention any 688s we'd put in the Taiwan Strait. China is incredibly nationalistic, but the leaders, not even the generals of the PLA, are ignorant enough of the facts to know that any attack on Taiwan would incur the wrath of the USAF and USN, and then there would be all those fun economic sanctions put on the PRC, which would really put a crimp in those 7% annual growth rates the gov't is bragging about.

But, back to the topic. Even though I love Boeing, I do like the AB products very much, as well. This is a great reason why I disagree with gov't owned industries. Politics can have FAR too much influence over decisions, and force a company into equipment or deals that do not necessarily fit their needs, but fit the political whims of the gov't.

-Boeingnut


User currently offlineN949WP From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2000, 1437 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4143 times:

Racko,

While the 777-package may be more expensive to CI compared with the 330-package, it does not in any sense makes the 777 an "inferior" plane against the 330. They are different planes designed to meet different needs.

Otherwise, by your logic, wouldn't the A380 be the absolute sh*tpile of the airliners world, being so much more expensive than anyone else?

'949


User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11154 posts, RR: 59
Reply 20, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4136 times:

May I have your attention please,

The A330-200 does NOT compete with the 777-200ER. The A330-200 competes with the 767-400ER.

So stop getting so angry when Racko says the A330-200 is a much superior product. He is NOT saying it is superior to the 777-200ER. He is saying it is superior to the 767-400ER which makes sense.


I don't know WHY you all thought he was saying the A330-200 is superior to the 777-200. You guys need to CHILL OUT and stop this childish Airbus vs. Boeing war.

I've been coming to these forums for nearly 2 1/2 years and honestly I have seen enough Airbus vs. Boeing wars to last me a life time.

At one time, I was tempted to leave this forum because of all the childish behavior.

It just amazes me how no one ever learns......

Over the 2 1/2 years I've been coming to this forum, I am still seeing Airbus vs. Boeing wars..........

So please everyone, STOP IT.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4132 times:

Don't SHOUT around, we can hear you very clearly! Thanks.

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4097 times:

Ok I am not biased against Airbus or Boeing, being an Aircraft fan in general I don't give a sh** if it is Airbus, Boeing, Lockheed or Douglass. I just like to spot planes. Granted some a/c look better in certain color schemes like I couldnt picture an A320 in Southwest color scheme and I couldnt picture a 767-400 in Northwest color scheme. But where does one even get the idea that a A330 is superior to a 777? I'm not saying that a 777 is superior either, its all opinion. But saying that the U.S. government is pressuring Taiwan to buy Boeing aircraft is a little far fetched isnt it? Couldn't the same be said about the European Union pressuring Swissair, Sabena, Austrian etc to buy Airbus then?

I don't know why all this Boeing or Airbus bashing goes on. Can't we just enjoy both for planes to watch?


User currently offlineTransSwede From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1000 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4082 times:

Geeezzz, people...

Of COURSE the A330-200 is superior to the 777-200 - For SOME airlines needs. And...
The 777-200 is superior to the A330-200 for other airlines needs.


It should be obvious by now... Are they still in competition, even though their seat numbers and cargo capacity don't overlap exactly, well of course they are. Airlines can consider more then two types, you know...? (Like A330-200/300 or 767-400 or 777-200) For example, SAS looked carefully at *ALL* those planes before settling on an A330-300/A340-300 combo.


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12593 posts, RR: 34
Reply 24, posted (12 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 4068 times:

Look, we can predict how this is going to end: CAL will be informed by the ROC government of its intention to buy a combination of eight A330s and as many 777s. Both sides should be happy with that (Airbus will have most reason not to be, since it effectively had its order cut by eight and the US will probably still try to persuade CAL not to buy any Airbuses at all), but that will probably be the diplomatic outcome. If the values need to be "evened" out a bit, perhaps RR engines might be ordered for both types.

I do see the American viewpoint on this, but I think the 330 is the most suitable product as an AB3 replacement, particularly as CAL already operates A340s.



25 Flyboy36y : I would hope that Israel, Taiwan etc would give something back for all the bullshit the US gets for supporting their Governments. As far as I know ElA
26 Heavymetal : I say sell em whatever. With their safety record they'll need 6 more in a few years anyway.
27 Flyboy36y : Oh, Israir too. Israir is all Boeing except for (I think) an ATR.
28 Post contains links and images 747-451 : KLM is not a "loyal Boeing Customer View Large View MediumPhoto © Johan Ljungdahl View Large View MediumPhoto © Erik Frikke View Large View
29 Yyz717 : Well said Wingman. Airbus Industrie engages in far more political arm-twisting for orders than Boeing has ever done. Witness Air-India, Indian Airline
30 Udo : Wingman, I'm sure you get the medal of honor from "Bubble-U" himself... It's always nice to see how convinced some people are of their leaders and the
31 Brons2 : By the way, if China does try to forcefully take over Taiwan, there is no guarantee that US will intervene with military action On a side note... You
32 Post contains images Varig md-11 : hi though I might find the general tone a bit agressive I jump in to ask : AYyz717 -Air Algerie chose Boeing for the new orders (737 and 767 though) a
33 VirginFlyer : The USA usually stands by Taiwan so that Taiwan will buy Boeing aircraft? Funny, I was under the impression it was because Taiwan is a major supplier
34 Lj : Airbus Industrie engages in far more political arm-twisting for orders than Boeing has ever done. Witness Air-India, Indian Airlines, Air Canada, Air
35 L-188 : STT757, I would debate the existance of an inbred Canadian will to buy US built aircraft. In fract there has long been an animosity acrross that borde
36 Bobcat : The Taiwanese president is eager to make another transit visit to the US. Previously, he had made brief "transit" visits, while on the way to a third
37 Racko : I didn't call the 777 inferior or the A330 superior in general, but if the A330 is cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate for an airline, it is the sup
38 Cmchardyfl : I think it makes absolutely no sense to buy the 777, if that is the aircraft that Boeing is offering to CI. Look, they are looking for a product to re
39 Racko : Flight International is reporting that the USA threatens to cut military aid to Taiwan if they go with Airbus.
40 Vfw614 : @yz717 Witness Air-India, Indian Airlines, Air Canada, Air France, Air Algerie, Hapag-Lloyd, Air Malta. The list goes on and on... Yeah, particularly
41 STT757 : L-188, What did I say againts Canada, I like Canada. Im going there next week. I think Bombadier is great, they make NYC Subway cars and the Acela Ex
42 STT757 : Racko you stated that... "Free Trade means that the trade are not controlled by the governments, but by the market. " To counter this point in regards
43 Carnoc : Just notice some of you that People's Republic of China (mainland China) is usually simplified as PRC, not PROC.
44 RayChuang : I wonder why is CI buying the A330-200. After all, CI is buying a replacement for their aging A300B fleet; they should be more interested in the A300-
45 Travelin man : STT757 -- Absolutely agree with you: Since when does a State-owned airline play by normal economic rules? If China Airlines wants to limit pressure fr
46 Wingman : Udo, re-read the post and learn. The writer is seemingly from Taiwan. Without US protection, Taiwan would've been swallowed by force by the PROC many
47 Brons2 : I think it makes absolutely no sense to buy the 777, if that is the aircraft that Boeing is offering to CI. Look, they are looking for a product to re
48 Udo : Wingman, Ok, point for you. I thought you had adressed Racko, my comment was based on a misunderstanding. So let's forget about it. Regards Udo
49 Post contains links Singapore_Air : Flight International article reworded and stripped: Washington threatens to cut military aid to Taiwan! blah blah... we already know... Some China Air
50 Sk945 : All governments have the right to and the most ones do, lobby for there own nations products and manufactures. It's natural. But from that to threaten
51 N79969 : Actually STT757 is correct about state-owned companies. They don't abide by free market principles. If they did, the US would not have a postal servic
52 Post contains links Singapore_Air : Comment from Jiml1126 who has since deleted himself. "American Institude in Taiwan (AIT) accusuing Europe subsidize Airbus, so Airbus can offer VERY c
53 N79969 : In 1996, the the PRC was "testing" missles in the Taiwan strait, who sent an aircraft carrier into the strait? France, no- they were testing nukes ou
54 Post contains images 747-451 : Interesting... All Boeing Airline=Airline oprressed by evil devil worshiping United States All Airbus Airline=Modern correct airline with vision and i
55 B757300 : 747-451, based on what some people on this forum say, you would think that is correct. Some people are to dumb to realize that the E.U. tries the same
56 Sk945 : 747-451 and B757300, Please, EU has nothing to do with Airbus. Airbus are owned by compaines in France, UK and Germany. There are 15 countries in EU.
57 Janne : As a guy from a very small country (Sweden). Is it wrong for the Swedish government-industrial conglomerate to try to persuade other countries to buy
58 Clipperhawaii : Is not America's global might wonderful? A little bit of arm twisting is good business in any part of the world! PREASURE PREASURE PREASURE! All other
59 Post contains images RayChuang : I'm disappointed that nobody on this thread has given a reason why CI would choose the A330-200 in addition to the A330-300. I mean, how many of CI's
60 N79969 : Doesn't CI fly to Abu Dhabi or some other place in the mid-east. That could be the application of the 332.
61 747-451 : The EU is nothing more than a dillution of the different identites of it's different members who all walk lock step together no matter what. Blah blah
62 RickB : RayChuang, if they reduce the range (i.e. less fuel on takeoff) of the A330-200, they can carry more cargo - so it could well be the cargo capacity th
63 Sk945 : 747-451, Sure, thats right!!!
64 M27 : You know, I've been told more than once on this forum that an agreement between the US and EU allows Airbus to receive up to 1/3 the development costs
65 Bobcat : UA, US, and HP all have Airbus planes in their fleet, and they are all getting billions of dollars in U.S. federal loan guarantee. Can you imagine th
66 Flyingbronco05 : For as much as i dis-like airbus, I DO believe the A330 is a better fit for them than the 777. Thats just my opinion though.
67 Post contains links RickB : M27 - if you would like to read the agreement made in 1992 http://199.88.185.106/tcc/data/commerce_html/TCC_Documents/ECConcerning.html its there. In
68 Dutchjet : It always surprises me that everyone gets so upset when we discover that politics and politicians get involved with aircraft purchases and try to push
69 Brons2 : I was always under the impression that Taiwan pays for the military hardware it imports from the US (i.e. the F16's). Taiwan could just as easily be m
70 Airzim : BTW, China Airlines is not happy with the A340's that they have purchased. They were assured from Airbus that they would be able to make TPE-NYC year-
71 Yyz717 : Regarding the AI influence on orders: 1. Canada's former PM Brian Mulroney has been sued for undue influence in the AC 320 order in the late 80's. 2.
72 RickB : Airzim, Doubt if its having an effect - CI is the one who wants to buy the A330's. RickB
73 Post contains images Hamlet69 : It's taken me a while to get back to this thread, but I will try an respond to as many posts as possible: EA CO AS, "So now let's be fair and compare
74 Hamlet69 : My last post was getting a little long, so I thought I'd reserve actually discussing the assigned topic in a serperate post: I've been going over news
75 Post contains images 747-451 : RickBsaid: "As for subsidizing Boeings commercial division, that's fine by me - its called a level playing field mate. I agree Airbus was helped to ge
76 Chiawei : One of my friend works at CI's planning department. There are a lot of dirt that is not being aired out to public. Here is the deal. The A340 will lea
77 RickB : 747-451 - read your history dude, CX-HLS was the name of the competition to build the US military strategic heavy lift aircraft. Boeing and Lockheed w
78 Wingman : Hamlet69, Thanks for your post, it's people like you that take the time to research and post meaningful comments that make this site worthwhile. All I
79 Bigo747 : Taiwan President Chen Shui-Bian's secretary today made following staements regarding CI order. 1. "US treats us(Taiwan) better than France." He claims
80 N79969 : EVA is getting A330's, right?
81 Touchdown99 : @yz717 Hapag-Lloyd faced incredible political opposition for its choice of the 738 over the 320 a few years ago, including a planned boycott of the ai
82 Spaceman : If AI is offering to buy the A340 with 80 million what do they give CI to replace those planes, the 777? What is your source for saying AI is buying t
83 Chiawei : As of now EVA A330 is still on schedule. However, EVA will be deciding on its long range fleet renewal soon. If the pressure presist, you will likely
84 747-451 : RickB said:747-451 - read your history dude, CX-HLS was the name of the competition to build the US military strategic heavy lift aircraft. Boeing and
85 Bigo747 : If AI is offering to buy the A340 with 80 million what do they give CI to replace those planes, the 777? What is your source for saying AI is buying t
86 Sk945 : Perhaps not totally within the subject, But I'm right now reading Tom Clancys book "The bear and the dragon" and President Ryan is talking about how t
87 Racko : Now we know how Bush makes his politics ... Powell and Rice are reading out loud books for him. PS: When was that Clancy book released ? I think I hav
88 Sk945 : Racko, I guess either late last year or the begning of this year.
89 Post contains images Varig md-11 : Yyz717 still a great sense of humor hey! for your information: - if France tries to influence Algeria (the 2 miserable old A310...) you got to know Al
90 Post contains images RickB : 747-451, Bloody hell - we agree on something I personally think in the case of Taiwan, then if I was in the US' shoes I would be pretty pi**ed off if
91 Post contains images 747-451 : thanks, RickB ! ... I agree with your last comment too.
92 RickB : Chris, You've earnt my respect mate !! RickB
93 RIX : Now we know how Bush makes his politics ... Powell and Rice are reading out loud books for him. - that's it, dear Racko! That is the whole point of yo
94 Racko : RIX: humour. Ever heard of that ?
95 STT757 : Your right it is all about selling papers, I read the European papers at the bookstore and every section from arts, to business to op eds has somethin
96 Thumper : Yes we have heard of humor,its called Wacko!!!
97 VirginFlyer : Where if you read US newspapers (even tabloid papers like the NY Post) there's little to none mention of anything European. Might I suggest that this
98 Staffan : I though this thread was about Taiwan and Airbus orders? Oh well...
99 Post contains images Aerosol : STT757: Which European Magazines exactly? French, German, Spanish, English, Swedish? Oh, and as a German, I am jealous when I see American cars! So we
100 STT757 : The British tabloids mostly, I read the NY Times. American's are quite intune with the rest of the world since unlike most of our European friends we
101 Sk945 : STT757, Reading some of your post, I wonder, Have you ever been to Europe? I don't see what late Daniel Pearl have got to do with anything in this thr
102 Cyril B : STT757, its well known: Europe is full of nationalistism, racist and antisemitic people... Oh God I forgot, Europe the homeland of the KKK! Do you rea
103 Udo : STT757, That was the greatest bullshit I have ever read in that forum (and that is not easy to achieve). You better grow up before you accuse thousand
104 N79969 : So how about Taiwan's airlines? I think RickB and Wingman sort of summed this thing up pretty well. Does anyone know why EVA seems to do much better s
105 Racko : STT757, please say you were drunk or better, you were on drugs. I don't want to believe someone serious can write so dumb bullshit.
106 Udo : N79969, is that a serious or a rhetorical question? Regards Udo
107 Bigo747 : EVA's safety is doing much better than CI is because their plane are relatively new. And they're trying not to operate a fleet with 10 years or older.
108 Aerosol : STT757: What excites me is your polite, fact based, well educated, well expressed and non-emotional way to discuss matters! You have demonstrated and
109 N79969 : The ironic (but not surprising) thing about CI and EVA is that the unsafe carrier is the government-owned one. I don't think there is much of correlat
110 STT757 : The US had slaves, they were captured in Africa by rival African tribes. Sold to Europeans (mostly English, Portugese) sent to the American "colonies"
111 STT757 : Thanks Aerosol, my mentor in College "Saliba" was a Palistinian, he gave me the even handed perspective I have. Even if you and your Euro buddies don'
112 Udo : STT757 has disqualified himself as a serious poster. Nothing more to add. Regards Udo
113 N79969 : Anyone know more about EVA's 744? None of the fleet proposals (A345/773ER etc) seem to be replacements for a 747. That is a bit weird.
114 Wn700driver : STT757... WHAT THE HELL ARE TALKING ABOUT? I know I just scrolled straight to the bottom, but I just read your post, and well.... Are you implying tha
115 Post contains images Udo : Applause for Wn700driver!!! Really good post, couldn't agree more. Regards Udo
116 N79969 : So does anyone want to talk about Taiwan's airlines? I still have some questions. I withhold my 'applause' for Wn700Driver...he believes (believed?) t
117 Bigo747 : EVA plans to replace the entire 15 B744 fleet with B777-200LR/-300ER.
118 N79969 : So EVA is cutting seat capacity and adding cargo capacity in the long term. Interesting. Does EVA lose money because of low load factors on the 747 or
119 Wn700driver : Thank you Udo. As I said before, I couldn't belive this was the same subject, I thought it was a joke, honestly, lol. N79969, Um, just out of curiosit
120 STT757 : Hey all I have to do is get in my car a drive 45 minutes to see a hole in the ground where thousands of innocent people (some from literally around my
121 N79969 : Actually I was referring to the CI and EVA's passenger loads, fares, yields, and so forth. They compete for the same market- Taiwan. Albeit with a dif
122 RIX : peaceful and economically strong country - France??? Well, this is to be a joke of the year at this forum...
123 STT757 : Hey : Wn700driver, I see your from Elizabeth. Why don't we meet at the Jersey Gardens mall, we can continue this conversation over coffee at the new K
124 Wn700driver : STT757, I am off to Baltimore at 445 this afternoon. However, I will be back on Sunday. Perchance then?
125 STT757 : Im going to Canada Monday, so it would have to be either Sunday or the following. Preferably when it's not so hot, came home early from Work today bec
126 Wn700driver : Sure the show sounds fine. Din't go last year, but then I wasn't in town much then either.
127 Cyril B : RIX: perhaps you think France is crap, but its still the world's fourth largest economy (go see the CIA world factbook), the fourth largest exporter,
128 STT757 : Cyril B. Guess what the fifth (soon to be fourth) largest economy in the world is, I think you might be suprised.
129 Cyril B : The fifth is the UK i guess... Anyway, fourth, fifth, sixth, its the same.
130 Post contains images 747-451 : CyrilB said: ".... and one of the largest exporter of military weapons and equipments." And the pot calling the kettle black ...puke,puke,puke! 747-45
131 STT757 : Actually no, the fifth is not listed. Because it's part of a country that's already listed, I'll give you a hint, number five is part of number one.
132 STT757 : Give up?. The great State of California is the fith largest economy in the world , and still growing.
133 Cyril B : héhé, you're talking about California. For a population of 35 million people, it's excellent indeed. But i was talking about France, and anyway this
134 N79969 : Since we have gotten this far off topic, I might as well throw in that LAX (the airport not the city it serves) has (had in 1997 at least) a GDP great
135 Post contains images 747-451 : And you've got mine!
136 Bigo747 : EVA's 744 replacement can not be considered as capacity reduction. 2/3 of BR's 15 B744 are COMBI. It doesn't make any big difference in terms of capac
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