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Tcas And The Collision Over Switzerland  
User currently offlineSoontobepilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 271 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 1744 times:

Hi everyone,

I just finished the book TRACON. A stunning and wonderful story. Anyway, it is true to a large extent. In TRACON, TCAS runs two planes together. Although the actual crash isnt real, I immediatly thought about the recent midair in Europe. Is it possible that TCAS gave the pilots "evasive" directions that ran them together? Thanks
-soontobepilot

6 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAA7771stClass From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 296 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1717 times:

As far as I can figure, it wasn't TCAS' fault. While I found "Tracon" to be a good and interesting book, it was still fiction. I think the problem arises when you realize that ATC and TCAS were giving different directions, both of which would have avoided the collision. But one pilot did what he should have and the other didn't...plain and simple.

User currently offlineDanialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

In the recent collision, TCAS worked properly, instruction DHL to descent and Bashkiri to climb. However, at the same time as the TCAS advisory, ATC instructed the Bashkiri plane to descent ... after some hesitation, the Bashkiri pilot decided to follow ATC instruction rather than TCAS, with the known result


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User currently offlineCfalk From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 1701 times:

What I have read in the Swiss press is what Danialanwar said. The TCAS system would have saved the day. Swisscontrol screwed up not once but twice - firstly, the two aircraft should have been pointed to different parts of the sky several minutes earlier, before it became an emergency, and second, when the situation had deteriorated to critical, gave the wrong emergency maneuver instructions.

Charles


User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1678 times:

But one pilot did what he should have and the other didn't...plain and simple.

Actually, BOTH pilots did what they were trained to do. The problem is that there is no worldwide standard for dealing with TCAS issues.

So it isn't "plain and simple".

the Bashkiri pilot decided to follow ATC instruction rather than TCAS, with the known result

The pilot didn't "decide" to follow ATC instruction. He did what he was trained to do. Read above: "no worldwide standard".


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1660 times:

Aviatsiya.ru has one important detail: "The problem is that there is no worldwide standard for dealing with TCAS issues. That's incredible in my opinion. Knowing, that TCAS is the last solution - there were many chances missed before by the Swiss ATCO - it's absolutely necessary, that this system, which combines actions taken by technique (TCAS) and human beeings (the pilot) works perfect, and everywhere within the same rules.

Gerardo



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User currently offlineJeff G From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 441 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (12 years 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

Then Bashkiri and similar airlines who don't have a procedure to follow TCAS have no business installing them in the first place. If it's true that their training has their pilots ignoring RA's in favor of an ATC directive, then the airline should be held criminally liable. The TCAS system is designed to separate aircraft as a last ditch effort, requiring cooperation from both aircraft. As happened in this case, when it's ignored, there's a high chance of collision. It's real simple: if you're going to disregard RA's, turn TA/RA mode to the OFF position. Otherwise, every other airplane in the sky with you is assuming that you'll comply with RA's. "No worldwide standard" is not a compelling excuse.


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