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How Did UAL93 Crash?  
User currently offlineFrequentflier From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 422 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4502 times:

Recently, speculation has arisen that a "whooshing" sound could be heard coming from the front of the 757 during the hijacking and subsequent murder of the passengers of flight 93 on 9/11/01. The NY Times reported that flight 93 was flying at low altitude when the famous "heroes of flight 93" forced their way into the cockpit. In fact, one of the passengers told his wife that there was a gun on board.

Is it remotely possible that either someone opened a door or window or shot at the fuselage of the 757 causing a massive decompression that forced the plane down during the struggle?

What do you think about this theory, or any other theory of how UAL93 came to its tragic end?

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4467 times:

An Airliner doesn't crash because of a rapidy compresion!
You level off @ 10000ft when you have a compresion!
The guys enterd the cockpit there was a fight they lost controll and thats it!


User currently offlineFrequentflier From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4460 times:

It wouldn't crash if someone fired a bunch of shots into the fuselage or into the controls?

User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4437 times:

Shots into the fuselage: no.
Shots into the controls: maybe.
Hit the ground: yes <-- this is what happened.



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4425 times:

you would need a M16 to shot the controls of a B757 to damage them that the AC would crash!
And if it wouldn't crash in that way,that you couldn't find a piece longer than 20cm.


User currently offlineSilverangel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4383 times:



I heard tell that it just sort of dove into the ground & that was all she wrote. I do so wish however that the media would stop playing up how much those clowns were supposedly heroes. I'll just bet that if the same thing happened, but they ended up flying to a mall or hospital, instead of the woods, they would have just blamed it on the hijackers then.


User currently offlineHawkeye2 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4382 times:

The hijackers crashed it into the ground after the pax entered the cockpit; this was documented in a Newsweek article in December 2001, based on leaked CVR recordings.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4364 times:

Wow for a fellow NJ resident that was a shitty statement Silverangel.

Im proud of what the folks aboard that flight did, an older gentleman from up the street from me died on the flight. He probably didn't do much to fight the hijackers, although he was in fantastic shape for his age. He was going to Yosemite for a hicking/ camping trip like he did every year since he retired.

And I was in Princeton at the Forrestal village Marritott the day they let the families hear the audio, although I wasn't alowed inside the conference rooms.

The families indicate that the tapes support the overtaking of the cockpit scenario, and it also displayed the evil acts of Murder the hijackers performed on a Women who was heard sreaming for her life.

Im proud of what they did, Im not proud of what you just said.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 4347 times:

I do so wish however that the media would stop playing up how much those clowns were supposedly heroes. I'll just bet that if the same thing happened, but they ended up flying to a mall or hospital, instead of the woods, they would have just blamed it on the hijackers then.

But that's not what happened. UA 93 went down in about as harmless a place as you can find, from all rational guesses because the hijackers knew their time at the controls of the 757 was coming rapidly to a close, courtesy of aforementioned 'clowns'. It did not hit a mall or a hospital or, if memory serves here, the White House or the Capital.

If those people were 'clowns', Bozo's got something to be proud of.

(rolls eyes disgustedly)


User currently offlineWannabe From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 677 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4299 times:

First of all, ignore Silverangel. Never give any idiot any attention, they ain't worth it.

Based upon what little has been leaked, my guess (and this is just a guess) is that the hijackers realized that they were not going to be able to hold off the passengers until they got to Washington. As the passengers got into the cockpit, the hijackers started to place the plane into a dive. The "wooshing" sound was probably noise genereated by the nose of the plane as it went beyond a normal speed for the altitude it was at. It sounds as though the plane was either inverted or in a dive with passnegers yelling to roll it over and/or pull it up. I doubt the wooshing sound was a rapid decompression. But not having heard the tape, this is pure conjecture.


User currently offlineSilverangel From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4285 times:

So, what you are saying is that you wouldn't mind if that crashed into your house/appartment etc? Are you volunteering your residence for the next time something like that occurs? Ok then.
All I said was that I am sick of people being played up or down by a one-dimensional and often fickel media. What happened happened, either way get over it & while you are at it you can get over the fact that what happened was quite reckless.
Heavymetal, I had always heard that it was crashed by PAX, who of course, always know when a plane is over a deserted unpopulated area, and would never accidentally blunder into a neighborhood. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong & the terrorists really did it then. If not, then it was a stupid thing to do, & there was nothing brave about it.
Hawkeye, I heard a rumor that those recordings have been released to the public, any truth to that?


User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4248 times:

On a upcoming new release book, it has some description on how UA93 crashed.

The main conclusion on how UA93 crashed is The terrorists were forced to crashed the plane because the cockpit was almost opened.

There were 2 passengers on board who knows flying theory. 1 of them was a retired ATC, while the other 1 have pilot's license on board UA93. Both of them were trying to get control of the doomed 757.


The terrorists thought they successfully controlled the plane at the first place and announced the plane has been hijacked. After being notified by their relatives about the catastrophic event in NYC and Washington, the passengers decided to fight back.

Passengers were throwing dishes, glass cups, heavy leather shoes at the terrorists. The cabin was full of breaking utensils.

Then the flight attendants begin to pour hot water towards the hijacker. When they're running out of hot water, they throw the bottle instead.

Terrorists suddenly went into the cockpit and locked the door. At least 4 people has been killed at this time. The passengers and crews begin to use the food carts with huge force, trying to break the cockpit door. The cockpit door was almost opened.

At the same time when the door was almost opened, one of the terrorist announced "END THIS FLIGHT". Moments after, the plane crashed.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4157 times:

There is another theory that states flight 93 was shot-down by fighter jets. For more information, visit http://www.flight93crash.com/. I personally don't know what to believe, although I do think there is a strong possibility the 757 was shot-down on September 11. Regardless if the passengers retook the cockpit, there was no way for anyone to know this. Remember, also, that flight 93 was on a course towards the general vicinity of Washington, D.C. and fighter jets WERE scrambled in the general direction of flight 93. In addition, parts from the airplane were found 8 miles from the impact site. If it were the case that flight 93 was shot-down, the government would keep it secret. We may never know.

Later,
Chris in Orlando


User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4165 times:

Silverangel: I don't know if you heard about the phone conversation certain passengers had with their loved ones before the plane crashed, but it was clear through those conversations that they were going to do everything they could to save as many lives as possible even if it meant that they would have to sacrifice their own. Just the fact that they tried, makes them heros in my eyes. Not only did they try, but they were also successful. Have a little respect for those who died in an effort to save lives. That statement you made makes me ashamed to call myself your fellow American citizen.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4142 times:

Those F-16s (3 or four of them) were scrambled from Langley AFB in Southern Virginia near Hapton Roads.

Flight 93 went down in Somerset County PA, still quite a Distance from Washington DC. And even further from Langley AFB, with lots of airtraffic still in the air and Washington just minutes from IAD, DCA, BWI and other smaller airports it would have been irresponsible of the F-16s (from the North Dakota ANG who were at Langley) to left Washington vulnerable to persue a "possible" hijacking.

Also there were eye witnesses who saw flight 93 roll over and crash nose first into the ground, the fact that no wreckage was found outside the hole where the aircraft impacted indicates that the aircraft was not hit by a missle.

Remember there were several "possible hijackings" that day, one was a DL 767-200 that made an emergency landing in CLE.




Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAZO/DTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4103 times:

767er you also put shame to being called an American. Silverangel has a right to voice her opinion here just as you do, without being belittled just because you do not agree with what she has to say.

Everyone has their theories about what happened and what the passengers did. Just because someone on this forum does not think they were heroes or anything special does not mean he or she is any less of a person.

In your mind she is just an asshole at a computer who you think doesn't deserve to be here, but you know nothing about her. Lighten up and open your mind, not everything is as perfect as you want to believe.


User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4094 times:

STT757:

There were more than three fighter jets scrambled! Jets were scrambled from Otis ANG Base (in OHIO) and Langley. Are you denying the possibility of such an event occuring (the shoot-down of flight 93)? There is no definite answer from the government as of yet. The majority of people are using this "hero" idea as a scapegoat. I recommend viewing this timeline of events: http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_timeline.html.

There was a sonic-boom recorded in PA on Sept. 11, 2001. The following is quoted from http://www.flight93crash.com/.

The relatively obscure field which considers the seismology of supersonic aircraft has produced something of a smoking gun in the mystery surrounding Flight 93's final moments. Evidence from the seismic record indicates there was at least one supersonic warplane within striking distance of Flight 93 on the fateful morning of September 11, 2001. A signal exhibiting the seismic signature characteristic of a passing sonic boom was recorded at 9:22 A.M. local time by an earthquake monitoring station in southern Pennsylvania. This station is just 60 miles from the abandoned stripmine in Somerset County where the Boeing 757-200 hit the earth at 10:06. (for more of this article, read http://www.flight93crash.com/flight93_seismic_event.htm)

Later,
Chris in Orlando


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 4085 times:

It's one thing to express your opinion, it's another to insult somebody you don't know by calling them "clowns".


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAZO/DTW From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4021 times:

Well...maybe they were actually clowns. You know, like birthday parties and stuff.







 Smile


User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1118 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3992 times:

I too am offended by what Silverangel said. What if the passengers on flight 93 just said "We might cause the plane to crash into a house, so we better not try to take down the hijackers" and then the UAL 757-200 was flown into the Capitol Building, or the White House, destroying some of the most recognizable and meaningful buildings in the entire world, and killing who knows how many more innocent civilians. Today, those great structures still stand. Do you know why? Because of the heroics of those brave pax. I can not think of an America without the White House or the Capitol Building. I salute those passengers.

God bless,
Michael Hawkins


User currently offline762er From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 542 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

AZO/DTW: Yes, she does have the right to express her opinion and I have the right to express mine. How dare you tell me to be ashamed of being an American. You will find few people as prideful of and dutiful to their countries as I. You yourself are being a hypocrite by telling me that I am in the wrong. Sorry I'm trying to defend the reputations of people who died bravely and honorably. I'll just let them get insulted and disrespected from now on. I apologize for my bitter tone, but this subject is touchy to me because of the family and friends I lost to 9/11. I will not accept people who died for their country being disrespected. Being an American is about standing up for what is good and noble, not being politically correct and accepting getting spat on as is the trend these days. This is my opinion and I hope you can see where I'm coming from. I don't like to get personal and I'm sorry that this post has. I have to defend myself because this is an issue I feel very strongly about.

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16892 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3955 times:

The strongest evidence that flight 93 was not shot is the fact that Cheney was very adament on Meet the Press that he had given the order to do so if neccesary, and that the American public would have been understanding and supportive under the circumstances.

Sacraficing 50 or so passengers compared to the hundreds or thousands that would have been killed if the aircraft had crashed into a large office building or nearby three mile Island.

There is no reason to hide that kind of information, because it would not hurt anyone. On the Contrary the fact that Bush had quickly given Chenney the go ahead to give such orders shows great courage, something that was plentiful amongst many Americans that day.

Fly Navy as I understand it the only units on "5 minute strip alert" on the East Coast were Langely and the Massachusets ANG out of the Cape Code area.

The Vermont ANG and NJ ANG 177th were not on strip alert but managed to scramble aircraft within an hour, the Vermont ANG were first over NYC and the NJ ANG responded to DC.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3945 times:

Then how do you explain the seismic recording? Were there any earthquakes in PA on September 11? I didn't think so.

User currently offlineAlaskaMVP From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3881 times:

Is this the dumbest discussion ever? Supposedly "there was a gun on board', or the plane was "shot down". But we have a clear cockpit voice recording recovered with sounds of struggle until the flight crashed, but no sounds of gunshots or explosions, no witnesses on the ground to a huge fireball from an exploding missile, nada... In america I am proud we are free to believe in conspiracy theories, and shoot your mouth off like SilverAngel, but it doesn't make either any less stupid Smile

Hey FlyNavy, don't believe all the bullcrap you read on the web, those "facts" on the web site you linked to were likely written by a 14 year old...


User currently offlineBeefmoney From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1118 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (12 years 3 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3836 times:

I dont quite understand how the sonic boom gives evidence for flight 93 being shot down. There quite easily could have been a fighter going supersonic at that time, perhaps intercepting flight 93 or another aircraft that was under suspicion, or any number of other things.

25 AZFAN : STT757, I never heard about the possible hijacking of the DL 767-200 that made the emergency landing in CLE, what are the details about that flight?
26 Sudden : As I remember from the ATC tape, they talked about smoke coming from the fuselage before it crashed. Smoke don't come from a plane without a reason!!!
27 Globemaster : Sept, 06, time to calm down a little and remember all the victims, because that's what we DO know...they are all victims. Even if the passengers were
28 Rp tpa : UA93 was definately shot down by a missle. Pierre Salinger told me so the other day.
29 Sudden : Excuse my ignorance, but who is Pierre Salinger?
30 Clipper471 : AZFAN, the manager of tactical operations at the FAA ATC System Command Center in Herndon, Virginia is quoted in the Dec-17-2001 Aviation Week & Space
31 Clipper471 : Correction... N189DN is a Boeing 767-332/ER.
32 Silverangel : . I apologize for my bitter tone, but this subject is touchy to me because of the family and friends I lost to 9/11. I'm sorry, I had no idea that mak
33 ABQ757 : The Smurfs shot it down with thier Mushroom shaped tank.
34 Jaysit : Apparently crashed at 575 mph inverted at a 45 degree angle into soft ground. The first 30 feet of the aircraft including the cockpit shattered on imp
35 Pilot1113 : A new book has come out that has put forth the best scenario yet as to what happened aboard UAL93. Contrary to popular belief UAL93 was NOT shot down.
36 Cedarjet : So how come a passenger on the phone said there was white smoke in the cabin? I'm not saying I think UA93 was shot down, but this white smoke (or cond
37 762er : Silverangel: What are you talking about? I just wanted to clear up that I'm not using my ties to 9/11 to "makes (my) opinion more legitamate." It just
38 Joni : The plane was hijacked obviously with the intention of ramming it into a class-A terrorist target. There was a fighter plane behind it. Then the plan
39 Silverangel : Well I wasn't angry in the 1st place 762er, but sure, we can do that. All my frustration came from was that it seemed as though only one point of vie
40 Pilot1113 : There was no fighter jet within striking distence of Flight 93. There was one dispatched to intercept it, but it wasn't close. - Neil Harrison
41 Pilot1113 : >>So how come a passenger on the phone said there was white smoke in the cabin? I'm not saying I think UA93 was shot down, but this white smoke (or co
42 STT757 : There was no wreckage found outside the 30 foot crater, indicating the planned nose dived into the ground. The Missle theory could be applied more to
43 Pilot1113 : >>Is it remotely possible that either someone opened a door or window or shot at the fuselage of the 757 causing a massive decompression that forced t
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