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BA DEN, PHX, And SAN Service Move To LHR 10/26  
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5570 times:

It is officially in the schedules now.

The British Airways DEN, PHX, and SAN flights move to London Heathrow on October 26.

Regards


"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
54 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4343 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5517 times:

And still no offical word how they are getting around B2? Curiouser and Curiouser......


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 5497 times:

Expect an announcement on 8/15.


It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5435 times:
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I still don't understand how BA got round the Bermuda 2 restrictions?



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5424 times:

Posted by Arsenal@LHR:
I still don't understand how BA got round the Bermuda 2 restrictions?

That could be what the announcement on 8/15 is about. My guess is that it's going to involve a lot more entities than BA...at least if Pat is in on it Big grin.

Still, I don't think that the schedule change carries much assurance of the approval of these services. If worse comes to worse and nothing happens (ie BA is forced to keep the flights at Gatwick), then I won't be surprised that BA made the schedule changes at this point in time.

One can only hope for the best!

Aaron G.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5427 times:
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If these changes are genuine, then something could be in store for the US airlines.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5479 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5403 times:

This could be big, I am sure that BA will not be operating these routes without the US airlines getting something in return. BA's LHR-DEN service will probably mean that United starts an LHR-DEN service.
Just out of curiosity, why those three cities? I would have thought IAH would get LHR service before any of those three.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5404 times:
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That's what i'm asking aswell Blink182, there could be a mini Bermuda 2 deal agreed on a limited service basis. who knows? let's wait and see.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineOA412 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5231 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 5376 times:

Just out of curiosity, why those three cities? I would have thought IAH would get LHR service before any of those three.

This was speculated on another thread. Obviously, logic dictates that IAH especially as well as DFW and ATL should get LHR flights prior to PHX, DEN, and SAN. However, one should remember that the three former cities are also have service from a US carrier whereas the three latter cities do not. Certainly, BA realizes that announcing LHR service from IAH, DFW and ATL would cause CO, AA, and DL respectively to scream bloody murder and would make it much more difficult for BA to circumvent B2. By moving flights from cities without competition, BA faces less resistance from US carriers.

Anyway, I would wait for the 8/15 announcement that DeltaSFO mentioned to see exactly what US carriers will get in exchange for the route swap by BA. Certainly, the US will not allow BA to just move these three flights to LHR without reciprocal rights for US carriers.



Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
User currently offlineKwsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

Virgin has been very quite about all this. Me thinks they must have gotten a little something which is keeping them happy.

User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Maybe Virgin is getting MCO, LAS, and rights to LHR from another American city?

Aaron G.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3372 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 5325 times:

i know virgin wanted to start service to phl after the new international terminal opens in december and an aggrement was reached dealing with B2, but i dont know how likely it is for virgin to start service to phl.

User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2573 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 5283 times:

Still not able to use BA's website to book flights onward from LHR when traveling from PHX. Although, to be fair, when calling reservations, the agent will quote a route and fare.

Guess they're not THAT certain yet.


User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 5185 times:

Expect an announcement on 8/15.

So, where's the announcement?


User currently offlineDavid_itl From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2001, 7359 posts, RR: 14
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5169 times:
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One of BBC online's stories begins:

"Negotiators from the US and the UK are meeting in Washington to try to find a way of relaxing the rules on air travel between the two countries.
The so-called 'open skies' talks include the possibility of allowing more airlines to fly to the US from London's Heathrow airport."


David


User currently offlineAamd11 From UK - Wales, joined Nov 2001, 1057 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5160 times:

Finally some sense from the talks "limited measures"
I suggested the same thing should happen, give bmi the rights, and ONE more US carrier, so that B2 consists of SIX carriers not the current four, its an interim step towards full open skies, which i dont think should happen until the airport [LHR] is ready for it [ie when T5 is opened and space in the other terminals is freed up a bit].

To me, this is the logical step, but who knows, if you ask me, competition is all good and well, but why open LHR to one more british carrier and 4 or 5 US carriers?? thats a bit one sided dont you think?
what will we [britain] get in return for letting so many new US carriers into our primary hub?

Regards,
A^A MD-11


User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

Well if UA continue to have problems....

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32572 posts, RR: 72
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

what will we [britain] get in return for letting so many new US carriers into our primary hub?

Umm...whose fault is it that there are only three intercontinental carriers in the UK, as opposed to six in the United States? In Open Skies, there are no restrictions. Britain "gets" nothing. In the US-Italy market there are all six US internatonal carriers and only one Italian carrier, Alitalia.



a.
User currently offlineDonder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6659 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 5149 times:

The UK wants the ability for UK airlines to fly domestic US routes and the US to drop the 'fly American' policy.

User currently offlineClipper471 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 726 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5123 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
DATABASE EDITOR

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020815/transport_openskies_2.html

British officials proposed at a State Department meeting that each country be allowed an equal number of additional carriers over the next two years to service Heathrow, U.S. officials said.

The new British government plan would permit each country to add two new airlines in 2003 and another two each in 2004, U.S. officials said. The revised access could include cargo flights as well as passenger service.

One source said one airline promoted for new service by Britain was BMI British Midland, the U.K.'s second-largest carrier behind British Airways.

The actual number of any new transatlantic flights for Heathrow would have to be negotiated.

There is no timetable for the Bush administration to respond, nor were new talks scheduled.

The U.S. government would have to decide "winners and losers" as well as how many flights airlines would get under any limited agreement, a scenario Washington has not wanted to negotiate in the past.


User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5107 times:
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A deal needs to be struck before the EU comes in and hi-jacks any open skies agreements.

So are they still talking or has anything been decided?




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offline747firstclass From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5089 times:

If both countires can add 2 new carriers for LHR-USA service, per year, please explain how and why BA plans to fly to PHX,DEN and SAN from LHR, when those cities are clearly not allowed under Bernuda II and BA is certainly not a new carrier at LHR. Confused and bewildered.

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5088 times:
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Both countries to add 2 new carriers? The US can provide CO,DL,NW and US. The UK has BMI, so where's the second UK carrier?

Confused aswell.




In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineMas777 From United Kingdom, joined exactly 15 years ago today! , 2935 posts, RR: 6
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5080 times:

As LGW is my home airport and many friends are BA employees (and EX-employees post lay-offs at LGW).... Bah humbug is all I can say.

Stopped flying BA for over a year now...and more people should too!


User currently offlineCLL777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5058 times:

Maybe they are concidering changing the whole scope of where to fly. With the SAN situation, maybe they will extend the LAX coverage to include SAN. Also myabe they will move the ANC coverage to PHX or DEN. Just a thought.

25 CO/ba : These flt will all have a stop in a city that is allowed service into LHR if a new agreement is not reached. Just like the IAH-LHR flt. I doubt they
26 OA412 : If both countires can add 2 new carriers for LHR-USA service, per year, please explain how and why BA plans to fly to PHX,DEN and SAN from LHR, when t
27 Lowfareair : My guess is that either CO/NW will get the flight, and most likely DL unless US can try to rally a sympathy vote. Note: Co and NW won't be the 2 airli
28 Cba : Uh, they're probably stopping in a B2 city. BA operates IAH-LHR, and gets around B2 by stopping in IAD. I'm guessing something similar for DEN, PHX, a
29 Lowfareair : Cba: the flight times that BA has make the flights non-stop, not one-stop.
30 Johnboy : Fairly ballsy to load such flights in the computer though. Luckily my flight to AMS has connections either via LHR or LGW, but some poor souls might b
31 Post contains links BA : They are not stopping anywhere. The DEN, PHX, and SAN flights will be non-stop. I don't know how many times it's been mentioned. Heck, check the datab
32 Post contains links STT757 : Here's the latest, CO and DL would get two flights each. http://www.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?T=marketsquote99_news.ht&s=APVwwRBUvVS5LLiBP With the stat
33 BA : Thank you for posting that STT757. It's amazing how some users on this forum act as if they work for the airlines, or the government and know better t
34 Arsenal@LHR : Either a limited deal has been struck or a full one. The article mentions 2 US carriers in 2003, could that be CO and DL, and another 2 carriers in 20
35 OA412 : It's amazing how some users on this forum act as if they work for the airlines, or the government and know better than the airlines themselves........
36 OA412 : Here's the latest, CO and DL would get two flights each. I saw no mention in the article of CO and DL getting two flights each nor any mention that th
37 FATFlyer : OA412, Another example of a route announced with schedules and equipment and ticket sales on their website was AS's planned SEA-LGB. When it became ap
38 BA : OA412, Last minute changes are possible. However it is unlikely for such a move as this. Yesterday, the US and UK began talks about a limited open ski
39 BA : Rumor has it that the UK govt. is about to approve tha UA-BMI alliance agreement. All the major US carriers will somehow "benefit" from the deal also.
40 Arsenal@LHR : No way would DL and CO agree to only 2 daily round trips from LHR, that is simply not enough for the routes to be profitable enough. DL would want at
41 MAH4546 : And let's not forget the best example: Alaska Airline's YVR-SNA, which actually did start, but only to find out on the first and only day of operation
42 OA412 : And let's not forget the best example: Alaska Airline's YVR-SNA, which actually did start, but only to find out on the first and only day of operation
43 OA412 : No way would DL and CO agree to only 2 daily round trips from LHR, that is simply not enough for the routes to be profitable enough. DL would want at
44 BA : OA412, I'm not saying BA is immune to mistakes. However, from the sounds of your previous posts, you sound almost certain that they are mistaken, and
45 MAH4546 : Anyway, there's also the example of AA which announced BOS-NRT service, put it in the schedules, sold flights then yanked the route. Happens all the t
46 Post contains links BA : Here are my 2 cents. Perhaps the DEN, PHX, SAN flight change to LHR may have nothing to do with an upcoming Open Skies agreement. Perhaps, British Air
47 BA : Also on an interesting side note, for the past 2 years Denver officials have been trying to persuade British Airways to move the Denver flight to Heat
48 STT757 : There's no way that the US would let BA alter the Bermua II treaty, letting BA make some changes would errode the US's bagaining position. Why should
49 OA412 : I'm not saying BA is immune to mistakes. However, from the sounds of your previous posts, you sound almost certain that they are mistaken, and will en
50 BA : STT757, I never said anything about BA altering the Bermuda II agreement. All I said was an exemption. Don't forget, that the flights that British Air
51 Arsenal@LHR : I guess the US DOT and CO,DL and NW are still making up their minds?.......
52 STT757 : There will be no exemption, no alterations of the treaty unless there is a real deal that includes enough access for CO, DL, NWA, and BMI to compete,
53 BA : STT757, Again, how are you so certain? You wouldn't know unless you worked inside with the government. You and I are the average public. I don't see t
54 STT757 : You lose your bargaining position if you give a little here and there, it's access for CO, DL, NWA and US or nothing as far as the US is concerned. Fo
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