TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3306 times:
Before I join in making disgusted comments about LH, may I ask for the source of your news please? Don't take it personally, I just think this is - like Airsicknessbag said - totaly tasteless, and I don't really see LH go so low.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3270 times:
If you take this matter from a business standpoint, it is probably a sensible move.
"German Wings" may still have some brand recognition left in parts of Germany (if only because of its good service, which used to be all-business class flights), "German Wings" vaguely resembles "Euro Wings" (misspelling of comany name is intended), and they get a company name, a logo and a color scheme virtually for peanuts.
Erasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3209 times:
I believe that Virgin Express had also announced that they wanted to start low cost operations from Cologne. Will they still go ahead with those plans?
Is Lufthansa perhaps trying to prevent Virgin express to go ahead with these plans?
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1003 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3210 times:
gee, for me that sounds like "amerikanski linie lotnicze". why not a name in german tongue? i am far from being a nationalistic person. but i think that its good to save cultural idiosyncrasies. and i think others like it. e.g. americans like to talk about kompressors, fahrvergnügen and shit like that.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4690 posts, RR: 45 Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3198 times:
Don't forget that "Denglish" ("Deutsch English") is all the craze here in Germany, because every dumba$$ thinks, a product name in English means something fancy.
I doubt that VEX will change their plans just because LH is reacting to their intentions. VEX is planing to base up to 20 planes at CGN over the next few years. That's quite a few more compared to EW's initial 4 or 5.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 3164 times:
Well, Gentlemen, I don't quite get the bad taste in this operation:
As I don't remember German Wings, could somebody tell me if LH actively "killed" German Wings"? I see that it was an operation by the Burda Brothers, which in itself sounds like a total joke, meaning that any carrier with such an owner-management team, is basically doomed to die before long.
Therefore I don't really get what you are complanining about...LH bought it, so why not use it.
btw 1: Though certainly not German, it does sound a lot more marketable than Buzz or Go!!
btw 2: The whole operation starts with those 5 aircraft, but we hear that if the operation is successful, there'll be a lot more German wings aircraft.
btw 3: Just be glad that there is something like a no-frills operation coming from LH, so they can cover that market niche, too. It seems to me that this baby is in a very good position to survive with that parent company...lately everybody in Germany seems to talk about competition...well here it is, bad taste or not!!
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4327 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3117 times:
Wasn't there a rumour that they [German Wings] intend to have around 50 aircraft, the same number TUI intends to use for its low cost airline.
BTW it's getting busier day-by-day in low cost Germany. First Ryanair, followed by Germania then DBA (soon to be easyJet Germany ) later followed by Virgin Express and TUI (in closew cooperation with Germania) and finally German Wings (sorry if I've left out any airline). If you calculate the combined total intended number of aircraft for German Wings, TUI and Virgin Express alone you come to 120 (50 German Wings, 50 TUI/Germania, 20 Virgin Express). Isn't this a little bit too much? Moreover as you still have chater airlines like Air Berlin who also take a piece of the low cost market.
Rabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1003 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3105 times:
TriStar500: "Remember: "Thomas Cook Airlines powered by Condor". That's almost as low as it can get."
you are so right. it makes me almost puke everytime i read over it. i cant get it. what does that "powerd by" mean? thought they were powered by Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney
whats even worse? if you mix strongly german things with english. e.g. in my hometown, a guy opened a shop called "birkenstock store by werner". thats like opening a burger restaurant in texas and calling it "burger gaststätte von joe". ok, i lost the track.
Airsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 36 Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3069 times:
Some information on German Wings and their, ahem, troubles with LH:
- Founded in early 1988, plans to serve FRA, HAM and DUS from MUC, from 1989
- Late 88: starting date Summer schedule 89 is determinded, further planes for CDG, CPH, IST; Burda, needing a place for their money after selling off their Springer stake, take 40% with the remaining 60% being held by two Munich businessmen and the Bayerische Landesanstalt fuer Aufbaufinanzierung; 6 MD83 are ordered
- Early 89: 300 employees are hired; starting date to be April 10; slots for FRA-HAM are acquired; LH is forced by a court do complete an interlining agreement; slogan: "Etwas mehr Klasse" (A little more class) because of all business 2-2 seating; crew training is done by SR
- Mid 89: Despite the interlining agreement, LH recognises German Wings tix only if they include an endorsement, effectively making it pointless. Several court battles because LH continue making German Wings´ life miserable, alledgedly by unfair means.
- Late summer 89: German Wings admit they sold only 70,000 tix through mid-july, well below their expectations of 350,00 through year end; load factor 25-30%, monthly losses of 5-6 million DEM
- losses in 89: 59.8 million DEM
- Early 90: LH offers to take a 24.9 % stake in German Wings; load factor at 45% (profitable: 55%+), apparently to stop BA or SK to take a stake
- April 31, 90: After both LH and BA lost interest, German Wings is broke, the fleet is grounded immediately; load factor had been 60% in April
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3015 times:
Thanx for the info...now that's absolutely great. Just mý 2 cents:
1. That sounds so much like Burda, believing that they can do just about anything, even kick off a successful airline..in those days every manager thought he/she can do just anything, m&a must have been great in those days, no strategic fit, no nothing, just acquire or merge or whatever. The words "core competencies" were yet to be invented.
2. LH in those days was a little bit different from what it is now. A completey state-owned and totally rotten company, that would have gone belly-up, with a management that could be called totally irresponsible at best.
So basically I don't understand the problems you guys have with LH, I don't see them actively killing GW in those days.
As for the name...well, could be better could be worse!
Airsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 36 Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3007 times:
Well, from reading the old Spiegel articles, it seemed that Mr. Ruhnau did do some dirty tricks, to say the last - culminating in faked take over talks in order to scare off BA - who one year later bought Delta Air to form Deutsche BA.
The whole German Wings concept (what was their two-letter code, I´m tired of typing it over and over?) seemed to be not that bad - after all, in the end they reached the profitability load factor, but it was too late. And I am convinced, Lufthansa being the monolithic behemoth they were, a little competition ahead of the liberalisation in 1992/93 did them a good service in adapting to less cosy circumstances.
The name was bought from German Wings´ "estate" - the intention was to bury it deep deep down, in order to prevent future competition from using it against LH.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 33 Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2976 times:
Daniel, can you actually imagine negotiations between the archconservative entrepreneur family Burda on one side of the table and the old working-class hero unionist Ruhnau and his henchmen on the other??? That's class war written all over the table. *lol*
German Wings was doomed to die the day it was founded, but then, so was LH in these days, if the there had been no privatisation going on with a subsequent exchange of the top management.
Oh well....sometimes they come back, even if it is on the other end of the airfare scala!
PW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2165 posts, RR: 12 Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 2922 times:
For all my dear German neighbours [I'm from die Niederlande...] who oppose to use English names for their Deutsche Fluggeselschaften [sp?], maybe this nice little story will be of some comfort...it's really hilarious!
The European Commission has just announced an agreement that English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German [the other possibility which was turned down].
As part of the negotiations, her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement, and has accepted a 5-year phase-in of new rules, which would apply to the language and reclassify it as EuroEnglish. The agreed plan is as follows:
In year 1, the soft 'c' would be replaced by 's'.
Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy.
Also, the hard 'c' will be replaced by 'k'. This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan now have one less letter.
There will be growing publik enthousiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome 'ph' is replaced by 'f'.
This will reduse 'fotograf' by 20%.
In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent 'e' in the language is disgrasful and they should eliminat them.
By year 4, peopl wil be reseptiv to lingwistik korektions such as replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v' [saving yet mor keyboard spas].
During ze fifz year, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibil riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer...
ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!! VE VIL AL SPIK LIK GERMANS!!
PS. Johans speling zeker just went bezurk!!!!!!
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"