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New German Airline: "German Wings"  
User currently offlineHias From Germany, joined Sep 2000, 349 posts, RR: 12
Posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Hi there,

as Lufthansa has decided to start low-cost operations out of Cologne with their partner Eurowings, they have unveiled the name of this new airline:

German Wings

In the late 80s/erly 1990s there already existed a German Wings which operated MD80 aircraft with only 117 seats on German domestic routes. This airline went bankrupt and Lufthansa bought the name.

Regards

Mathias
www.spotter.de.vu
mathias.henig@gmx.de

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

If this is true, it´s not only tasteless and disgusting but next to macabre. First they kill the airline with unfair means, then they´re on the carcass like vultures...
Daniel Smile


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3823 times:

Before I join in making disgusted comments about LH, may I ask for the source of your news please? Don't take it personally, I just think this is - like Airsicknessbag said - totaly tasteless, and I don't really see LH go so low.




Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineHias From Germany, joined Sep 2000, 349 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3806 times:

Here are my sources, in German though:

http://www.handelsblatt.com/hbiwwwangebot/fn/relhbi/sfn/buildhbi/cn/GoArt!200012,200040,554039/SH/0/depot/0/index.html

http://de.biz.yahoo.com/020808/11/2wes2.html

http://de.biz.yahoo.com/020808/71/2weua.html

All the best

Mathias
www.spotter.de.vu
mathias.henig@gmx.de


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3787 times:

Thanks, Mathias!  Smile
If you take this matter from a business standpoint, it is probably a sensible move.

"German Wings" may still have some brand recognition left in parts of Germany (if only because of its good service, which used to be all-business class flights), "German Wings" vaguely resembles "Euro Wings" (misspelling of comany name is intended), and they get a company name, a logo and a color scheme virtually for peanuts.


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Torsten Maiwald



From an enthusiast's point of view, and common business sense left aside, I am disappointed about this presentation of really bad taste though.
 Angry

Kind of ironic, that a brand name, which was related to upscale service may now be used for no-frills operations. Kind of like an ultimate humiliation for the former German Wings employees.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineHias From Germany, joined Sep 2000, 349 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

@Tristar500

I don't think they will use the same colour scheme that the old German Wings had. I hope for something new...



User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3770 times:

*yawn* Hopefully they'll at least create a new logo and a modern livery.

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10731 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3766 times:

One good thing is that Eurowings awful livery will hopefully die.

User currently offlineErasmus From Italy, joined Jun 2007, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Hi,
I believe that Virgin Express had also announced that they wanted to start low cost operations from Cologne. Will they still go ahead with those plans?
Is Lufthansa perhaps trying to prevent Virgin express to go ahead with these plans?

Regards,
Erasmus


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3727 times:

gee, for me that sounds like "amerikanski linie lotnicze". why not a name in german tongue? i am far from being a nationalistic person. but i think that its good to save cultural idiosyncrasies. and i think others like it. e.g. americans like to talk about kompressors, fahrvergnügen and shit like that.

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3715 times:

@Rabenschlag
Don't forget that "Denglish" ("Deutsch English") is all the craze here in Germany, because every dumba$$ thinks, a product name in English means something fancy. Big grin


@Erasmus
I doubt that VEX will change their plans just because LH is reacting to their intentions. VEX is planing to base up to 20 planes at CGN over the next few years. That's quite a few more compared to EW's initial 4 or 5.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3709 times:

@Rabenschlag
Remember: "Thomas Cook Airlines powered by Condor". That's almost as low as it can get.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineThomas_Jaeger From Switzerland, joined Apr 2002, 2388 posts, RR: 28
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3695 times:

TUI is reportedly also planning to base their new low-cost airline at CGN, will we see a new Stansted?


Swiss aviation news junkie living all over the place
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

Well, Gentlemen, I don't quite get the bad taste in this operation:
As I don't remember German Wings, could somebody tell me if LH actively "killed" German Wings"? I see that it was an operation by the Burda Brothers, which in itself sounds like a total joke, meaning that any carrier with such an owner-management team, is basically doomed to die before long.
Therefore I don't really get what you are complanining about...LH bought it, so why not use it.
btw 1: Though certainly not German, it does sound a lot more marketable than Buzz or Go!!
btw 2: The whole operation starts with those 5 aircraft, but we hear that if the operation is successful, there'll be a lot more German wings aircraft.
btw 3: Just be glad that there is something like a no-frills operation coming from LH, so they can cover that market niche, too. It seems to me that this baby is in a very good position to survive with that parent company...lately everybody in Germany seems to talk about competition...well here it is, bad taste or not!!

Regards

Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4428 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Wasn't there a rumour that they [German Wings] intend to have around 50 aircraft, the same number TUI intends to use for its low cost airline.

BTW it's getting busier day-by-day in low cost Germany. First Ryanair, followed by Germania then DBA (soon to be easyJet Germany Big grin) later followed by Virgin Express and TUI (in closew cooperation with Germania) and finally German Wings (sorry if I've left out any airline). If you calculate the combined total intended number of aircraft for German Wings, TUI and Virgin Express alone you come to 120 (50 German Wings, 50 TUI/Germania, 20 Virgin Express). Isn't this a little bit too much? Moreover as you still have chater airlines like Air Berlin who also take a piece of the low cost market.

Regards
Laurens



User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3622 times:

TriStar500: "Remember: "Thomas Cook Airlines powered by Condor". That's almost as low as it can get."

you are so right. it makes me almost puke everytime i read over it. i cant get it. what does that "powerd by" mean? thought they were powered by Rolls Royce and Pratt & Whitney  Wink/being sarcastic

whats even worse? if you mix strongly german things with english. e.g. in my hometown, a guy opened a shop called "birkenstock store by werner". thats like opening a burger restaurant in texas and calling it "burger gaststätte von joe". ok, i lost the track.

cheers, r.


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3586 times:

Some information on German Wings and their, ahem, troubles with LH:

- Founded in early 1988, plans to serve FRA, HAM and DUS from MUC, from 1989

- Late 88: starting date Summer schedule 89 is determinded, further planes for CDG, CPH, IST; Burda, needing a place for their money after selling off their Springer stake, take 40% with the remaining 60% being held by two Munich businessmen and the Bayerische Landesanstalt fuer Aufbaufinanzierung; 6 MD83 are ordered

- Early 89: 300 employees are hired; starting date to be April 10; slots for FRA-HAM are acquired; LH is forced by a court do complete an interlining agreement; slogan: "Etwas mehr Klasse" (A little more class) because of all business 2-2 seating; crew training is done by SR

- Mid 89: Despite the interlining agreement, LH recognises German Wings tix only if they include an endorsement, effectively making it pointless. Several court battles because LH continue making German Wings´ life miserable, alledgedly by unfair means.

- Late summer 89: German Wings admit they sold only 70,000 tix through mid-july, well below their expectations of 350,00 through year end; load factor 25-30%, monthly losses of 5-6 million DEM

- losses in 89: 59.8 million DEM

- Early 90: LH offers to take a 24.9 % stake in German Wings; load factor at 45% (profitable: 55%+), apparently to stop BA or SK to take a stake

- April 31, 90: After both LH and BA lost interest, German Wings is broke, the fleet is grounded immediately; load factor had been 60% in April


Daniel Smile



User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Thanx for the info...now that's absolutely great. Just mý 2 cents:
1. That sounds so much like Burda, believing that they can do just about anything, even kick off a successful airline..in those days every manager thought he/she can do just anything, m&a must have been great in those days, no strategic fit, no nothing, just acquire or merge or whatever. The words "core competencies" were yet to be invented.
2. LH in those days was a little bit different from what it is now. A completey state-owned and totally rotten company, that would have gone belly-up, with a management that could be called totally irresponsible at best.
So basically I don't understand the problems you guys have with LH, I don't see them actively killing GW in those days.
As for the name...well, could be better could be worse!
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3524 times:

Well, from reading the old Spiegel articles, it seemed that Mr. Ruhnau did do some dirty tricks, to say the last - culminating in faked take over talks in order to scare off BA - who one year later bought Delta Air to form Deutsche BA.

The whole German Wings concept (what was their two-letter code, I´m tired of typing it over and over?) seemed to be not that bad - after all, in the end they reached the profitability load factor, but it was too late. And I am convinced, Lufthansa being the monolithic behemoth they were, a little competition ahead of the liberalisation in 1992/93 did them a good service in adapting to less cosy circumstances.

The name was bought from German Wings´ "estate" - the intention was to bury it deep deep down, in order to prevent future competition from using it against LH.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3522 times:

... and of course it should have said "April 30" in my last posting - in non-av I´d have people all over me, questioning my mental state for adding another day to the calendar...  Wink/being sarcastic

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3493 times:

Daniel, can you actually imagine negotiations between the archconservative entrepreneur family Burda on one side of the table and the old working-class hero unionist Ruhnau and his henchmen on the other??? That's class war written all over the table. *lol*
German Wings was doomed to die the day it was founded, but then, so was LH in these days, if the there had been no privatisation going on with a subsequent exchange of the top management.
Oh well....sometimes they come back, even if it is on the other end of the airfare scala!
Regards
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2485 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3439 times:

For all my dear German neighbours [I'm from die Niederlande...] who oppose to use English names for their Deutsche Fluggeselschaften [sp?], maybe this nice little story will be of some comfort...it's really hilarious!

EuroLanguage
The European Commission has just announced an agreement that English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German [the other possibility which was turned down].
As part of the negotiations, her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement, and has accepted a 5-year phase-in of new rules, which would apply to the language and reclassify it as EuroEnglish. The agreed plan is as follows:

In year 1, the soft 'c' would be replaced by 's'.
Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy.

Also, the hard 'c' will be replaced by 'k'. This should klear up konfusion and keyboards kan now have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthousiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome 'ph' is replaced by 'f'.
This will reduse 'fotograf' by 20%.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.
Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters, which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent 'e' in the language is disgrasful and they should eliminat them.

By year 4, peopl wil be reseptiv to lingwistik korektions such as replasing 'th' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v' [saving yet mor keyboard spas].

During ze fifz year, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords kontaining 'ou' and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.

After zis fifz year, ve vil hav a reli sensibil riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer...

ZE DREM VIL FINALI KUM TRU!! VE VIL AL SPIK LIK GERMANS!!



PW100

PS. Johans speling zeker just went bezurk!!!!!!



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineFabian Schuetz From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 168 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3423 times:

Daniel,

the two letter code of German Wings was "PW".

Regards
Fabian


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

@PW100:
 Big thumbs up

Reminds me of a hillarious Dutch joke about us Germans...

Q: How does a German open an oyster?

A: He fiercly knocks on the shell and shouts "Aufmachen!!!"



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

What happens to people that fail at the driving license test twice in the Netherlands ? They get a yellow car plate. Just to even out the joke-score  Smile/happy/getting dizzy

BTW, Lufthansa is still trying to hide it's role in the thing, see here


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