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SIA Emergency Landing In CPH - Single Engine Land.  
User currently offlinePiaforme From Denmark, joined Sep 2001, 164 posts, RR: 1
Posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3624 times:

Daily danish tabloid EkstraBladet is telling abt. a SIA 737 with 276 souls on board emergency landing in CPH (EKCH) 2 hours ago.

It must be a 777 and not a 737 as the newspaper is quoting (first thing newspapers mix up is the modelname).

Safe landing conducted - anyone with more details?

PIAforME
Kamran Sarwar

42 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3585 times:

No details on the event itself, save to say that they must have meant 777. Single engine approach and landing is no big problem, it's easier than you would think and it is mandatory for every pilot to be trained in the simulator to carry out such a procedure every 6 months.

Whilst I have never done one for real (except in training) I imagine it would be like second nature. That's the idea anyway!



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3550 times:

He Rick 767...

Are you really an airline pilot?! In the previous topic you ask yourself who did the abort (don't know in your company, but I think it is ALWAYS the captain that does the abort), which sound pretty basic to me, and here you state that you are indeed an airline pilot (like your profile says as well)


pretty confusing....  Confused


AA



User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3526 times:

If you read the topic in question you will note that my question posed how he knew it was the Captain who had aborted the takeoff and not the First Officer (if you go back to my most recent post on that thread you will note that in my airline and many others, it can be either).


I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

Interesting....

I have flown so far 737 (200-300-400-500) and A32F (319-320-321), and as I recall the official airbus and boeing manuals always state that CM1 performs the abort. How come your company does not follow this philosophy?!

Who holds the throttles at your company during the take-off roll?!
How does the captain state during the take-off roll who will do the abort.... I have controls you have controls?! abort or not?


still confused, but interesting to have an other point of view on the aborted take-off.


User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6002 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3488 times:

Kamran/PIAforMe

I think it must have been the daily flight out of EKCH. It leaves at 12 noon, and if the engine went bust right after take off, it must have been easiest for them to return straight away.

KD_Larsen


User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3476 times:

For the benefit of those who did not read my post on my companys SOP on rejected takeoffs:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/902431/

I think the Boeing and Airbus manuals do state the procedure you use. I thought most airlines had moved away from this with current thinking on enhancing CRM aspects of such events? Certainly BA moved over to this new procedure in the early 90s. In the same manner, many airlines still do not allow the first officer to taxy the aircraft. Most early Boeings do not have nosewheel steering tillers on the f/o side, and as far as I know some airlines actually request not to have them fitted!

Like BA, our airline allows a complete role reversal during f/o sectors including taxy and aborted takeoff (with only a slight difference in the latter procedure).

The throttles are held throughout the takeoff by the flying pilot (P1, which confusingly can be the captain or f/o so I prefer the term "flying pilot"). Legally the Captain is always P1, but our company call it "In Command under supervision" (P1 ICUS) when the f/o is flying pilot.

The aborted takeoff procedure is fully briefed by the handling pilot prior to pushback, and 99% of the time we run to Standard Operating Procedures so there is rarely any ambiguity. The pilot taking control of the aircraft will do so using the normal phraseology as defined in our SOPS ("I have control" / "You have control").

The takeoff is aborted below V1 by the command of "Stop", from either crewmember. This can be called for fire, engine failure (2 or more confirming parameters noted), configuration warning, or in addition by the Captain for any reason he/she sees fit. So the first officer can only call stop for a fire, engine failure, configuration warning, siginificant handling difficulty (on his sector) or a blocked runway.

Would be interested to know how all this works in your airline.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3478 times:

Given the B777 has the extra feature that other twin jets don't have it would be easier. But another engine failure on SIA's B777s? Good luck to them on their desire to have 180ETOPS. Glad everything went okay.


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3468 times:

I agree with you Mr BA .



Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3467 times:

Would this mean the end of SIA's bid for 180ETOPS?


NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineJetskipper From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3457 times:

As far as I know the 777 is the only aircraft Boeing makes that is certified for autoland approaches on one-engine. If this crew wanted to they would not have had to disconnect the autopilot at all.

FYI. At the airline I work for if it is the F.O.'s leg, the F.O. advances the thrust levers, and when near the N1 target tells the CPT to "set thrust". At this point the F.O. no longer has his hands on the thrust levers, and ultimate autority to reject is given to the CPT. In the event of a rejected takeoff the CPT calls "reject, reject" and retards the thrust levers to idle, and into reverse if necesary. At this point the CPT calls "I have the controls", and from that point on the CPT completes the rejected takeoff procedure, leaving the F.O. to inform ATC, and inform the passengers to "remain seated, remain seated". If there is any problems (power loss, engine fire, unrelated caution or warning) after V1 the F.O. maintains control of the aircraft and continues the takeoff and when at an appropriate altitude calls for the require memory items or instructs the CPT to reference the appropriate QRH checklist.


User currently offlineA320-Addict From Belgium, joined Apr 2001, 250 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3425 times:

He Rick thx for explaining your company sop's during an abort.

This is how it goes at my current company:

-On the ground we give a briefing about the rejected take-off. We do not discuss the actions, because these will always be the same, no matter who is flying. We discuss the take-off as being critical or not critical, so we would be rather go-minded or stop minded, based as well on the performance calculations we did.

-Take-off thrust is ALWAYS set by the captain, and he remains at the controls of the thrust levers at all time.

-Abort is called by the Captain by calling out :"Stop" with these words he takes control of the aircraft, (he does not have to state I have controls, it is included in the stop) closes the thrust levers and applies Max reverse.

-All systems that help the aircraft to decelerate are monitored by the FO
(RTO function, spoilers, reversers.) At my current company, we just monitor them, and do NOT make a callout unless something is not functioning properly.
(so it is rather silent during our initial abort sequence... which I have to say I am not too fond of, but the philosophy is that the priority is to stop the aircraft first and not to leave the runway)

-FO calls 70kts during the deceleration (normally full reverse should be brought back to idle, but MAY still be used if necessary in the interest of safety)

-Captain sets the parking brake, and FO makes sure it is set.

-From now on the aircrafts systems will be monitored and from this comes the decision to evacuate or not.



User currently offlineZander From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 610 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3417 times:

Nice to hear that everything went okay.

CPH-R,
The SIA flight is thrice weekly not daily as you said.
It would be great if it will be daily in the future.
And one more thing it departs at 11.30  Big grin

Alex


User currently offlineMr.BA From Singapore, joined Sep 2000, 3423 posts, RR: 22
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3350 times:

SQ 351 is estimated at SIN 0541, 24 minutes ahead of schedule. Weird.


Boeing747 万岁!
User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3310 times:

This is a most unfortuante incident.

I see nothing from AP / AFP / Yahoo / Reuters / Dow Jones so far but I'll try and see what articles if any can be found tomorrow.

The most recent SIA information is regarding the good traffic figures for July.



Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineCPH-R From Denmark, joined May 2001, 6002 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3293 times:

Zander

I never look at the timetables, I usually judges by the time they fly over my head at Kystvejen.... and the last few times I've been there, they usually departed at 12 noon Big grin

.. and a minor update: It was a birdstrike that caused it to return to CPH. They were, as far as I understood, stil within CPH airspace, so it mut have been right after takeoff.


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 55
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3206 times:

My company seems to do it in exactly the same way as A320-Addict's. The Captain always sets take-off thrust regardless of who is PF or PNF. Abort procedures will always be the same, and during the departure brief we say "This will be a company standard departure...". This implies standard crew actions in case of any abort. If we do abort, the Captain will call "Abort" and do everything. The FO monitors his actions and calls anything he has missed. Apart from that, the FO and Captain roles are pretty much reversable, normally. However, we do have different limits for the pilots. For example, Max crosswind on the 777 in CX is 38kts for Captains, 15kts for FOs. FOs are also not allowed to autoland, or do night visual approaches into certain airports. We also have weather restrictions as well, below which the Captain has to land, autoland or not.

Mr BA + Tsentsan,

I believe that bird strikes do not affect the ability to get ETOPS, as it does not reflect on the company's maintenance or operational procedures, or engine reliability. If this was indeed due to a birdstrike then SQ does not have to worry about ETOPS. When the ETOPS trials were being performed prior to the 777 entering airline service I know of one case where an engine shed a blade on departure. Obviously this would have had a major impact on the ETOPS effort, but the engine had apparently had a birdstrike 2 days earlier that had not caused any damage after checks. They attributed the engine failure to the earlier birdstike. I am not sure if it was justified or not, but it had the desired effect of keeping the service record!!


User currently offlineJofa From Sweden, joined Apr 2002, 320 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3165 times:

Cx flyboy

"If this was indeed due to a birdstrike then SQ does not have to worry about ETOPS."

According to http://ekstrabladet.dk/ it was a birdstrike.


User currently offlineSingapore_Air From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2000, 13742 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

http://ekstrabladet.dk/VisArtikel.iasp?PageID=173618

Plane does emergency landing at Kastrup (Airport)

A Boeing 777 plane belonging to Singapore Airlines with 276 passengers on board had problems on Thursday afternoon after a bird flew into one of the plane's engines.

Information from Kastrup police indicates that the pilot made a landing with only one engine.

The pilot emptied the plane (my note: he jettisoned fuel) to make the plane as light as possible. Furthermore, he got the engine shut down, says a person in charge.

They could land afterwards without any problem.

When the Falck received a message, he sent some ambulances to Kastrup Airport where they went on a so-called Standby 2 alarm.

Information was gathered from the above hyperlinked website. My comments are clearly defined in brackets with 'My note:' preceeding the comment. Full information can be viewed by clicking the above hyperlink




Anyone can fly, only the best Soar.
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

From what info I have, it wasnt a bird strike. It was a fire warning in the engine.


NO URLS in signature
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

A320-Addict and Cx flyboy,

I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job or professing to know more than you, just ask a few questions.

So can an F/O initiate an abort? If the f/o is the handling pilot and calls "Abort" will the aircraft be stopped automatically with no discussion? If this isn't the case, then surely this doesn't really promote CRM.


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2908 times:

With AirMalta the PF for that sectors starts the engines and does everything a PF does except taxi the plane (because there is no tiller on the 737 - on the A320 the FO taxis if flying with a training capt) including performing a GA if necessary. I think it is a good system as it prepares the FO for his eventual command and minimises confusion on the flight deck.

User currently offlineJofa From Sweden, joined Apr 2002, 320 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2744 times:

So, does anyone know how the passengers finally got to Singapore?

User currently offlineBells From Singapore, joined Nov 2001, 159 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2739 times:

This was NOT an inflight shutdown and was NOT a birdstrike.

Part of the cowling came off on take-off. Tower informed the crew. Crew decided to return as a precaution.

The engine wasn't shut down - this was purely a nacelle problem.

Sorry guys!


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6606 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

777236ER,

During the takeoff roll, if the FO is PF, his eyes will be firmly outside and he/she will occassionally glance in to have a look. The Captains hands are on the thrust levers and chances are if there is anything wrong, he will notice first and call abort. He will takeover and do the abort.
If the Captain is PF, his hand are on the levers and the FO sits there and monitors everything. If she/he sees anything unusual it is up to them to call it. The Captain's eyes are firmly outside for the takeoff roll. However, it is the Captains decision whether to abort or not. If we see something, we call what we see, and not 'abort'. If we see a fire, we call 'fire', if there is an engine failure, we call 'engine failure'. It is then the Captain who will decide, then call either "abort' or 'continue'. Obviously if it is a serious problem, and the FO calls 'abort' resulting in an abort, I doubt that he/she would get into trouble.


25 Post contains links and images Mr.BA : View Large View MediumPhoto © Colin Abbott So it's a bird strike?
26 AWspicious : Well, I may not know for sure if it was a bird strike, an engine fire, or a cowling seperation, but, I did learn the Danish words for the days of the
27 Bells : Mr.BA - read my post above. No it wasn't a birdstrike. Have you ever seen a bird fly into the back of an engine?
28 Mr.BA : Apologies Bells somehow I missed it, sorry! Would this affect ETOPS?
29 Cx flyboy : A bird COULD cause damage that dislodges fan blades which come out the back end ripping cowling with it. It is very possible.
30 Post contains links Singapore_Air : Singapore Airlines has now confirmed the unfortunate incident. --- Singapore Airlines has confirmed that a plane bound for Singapore from Copenhagen h
31 SailorOrion : If a fan blades goes off, it should never come out of the engine. Such an engine would never a certification. It is in both JAR and FAR regulations. S
32 Pakistania : Maybe i missed it somewhere here, but can anyone come foreward with a registration ? thanks
33 Singapore_Air : Pakistania: it was the newly delivered 777-200ER Jubilee 9V-SVI. See the post above: Username: Mr.BA Posted 2002-08-17 04:17:40 and read x times.
34 Jesseycy : Yipes, that looks bad.... Singapore Airlines seem to have run into a whole series of bad luck lately...... Let's hope they get some good luck back soo
35 Jesseycy : Regarding to above post, I thought I'll clarify what I mean by error in maintenance... I DO NOT mean their new plane. Just thought I'll say that, in c
36 Post contains images Tsentsan : Quoted by: Username: Bells Posted 2002-08-17 06:13:24 and read 127 times. Mr.BA - read my post above. No it wasn't a birdstrike. Have you ever seen a
37 Rick767 : Cx_flyboy, "it is the Captains decision whether to abort or not." That's a weird procedure. How can the Captain possibly be in a position, for example
38 Ejazz : Rick, The procedure outlined by Cx_flyboy for CX is exactly the same for Singapore Airlines. The decision to abort is the Captains and his only. That
39 Rick767 : Ejazz, Thanks for that info. It seems my airline's procedures are less common than I thought amoungst other airlines around the world. I know that Bri
40 Ejazz : Hi Rick, I would like to see F/O's given the responsibility to determine whether a take-off should be continued or not. It might be the low experience
41 Rick767 : Ejazz, Yeah we have the parking exception too. Basically we are permitted to do a complete role reversal between Captain and First Officer (entire all
42 Cx flyboy : Rick767. I agree that I think it would be a good idea for the FOs to decide as well about aborting a takeoff. It would be great if we had control of t
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