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Unused Gates At Philly  
User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Posted (12 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

i just got back from a trip to atlanta yesterday and went over to the Terminal D hammerhead. i noticed UA planes at a few gates, however i noticed that D14-16 and D12 had no airlines at them. although one of them had a UA airplane at the gate, none of the 4 gates had any sign of a specific airline using that gate, such as no airline names on the desks right in front of the gate. Now who uses/will use these gates, airtran, possibly frontier or alaska if they ever come here, but who else? Have these brand new gates been sitting practicaly dorment for the past month or two since they have been built? What about airtran, i thought their gate lease at F ended in June, and then the city was going to renegociate another contract for them at D. However its now almost the end of August and airtran is still at F, much to the dislike of us airways and the city.

one more quick question about PHL. is their any plans for AA to give up their 2 gates at E? i noticed that basically all they use them for are to park planes overnight when they run out of space at A. i think those 2 gates are being underutilized. i thought it was funny that right below the gates are all of the former TWA ground equipment packed together waisting space. what about AA possibly getting rights to one or 2 more gates at A, when most of the international flts move to the new international terminal by years end.

16 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1197 times:

I have given up trying to figure out when Airtran is supposed to move in. But as with any construction project at PHL its been delayed and SNAFUed to death. UA has got permission to use D15 to park A/C over night until D-9 is installed. Airtran supposedly lost its fight to stay at F, but noone seems to know when we could expect them. They also now want only 2 gates instead of all four. If anyone from FL in PHL could clue us in it would be helpful. The old D-12 has not been dismanteled and replaced yet. And the whole ground floor is just barebones concrete and drywall. I haven't a clue what they intend to do with it.

User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1128 times:

Was in PHL last week (will be there again tonight), was told by an FL gate supervisor, it will be early next year before AirTran moves over to D - and yep, just two gates for now.

Travis


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1095 times:

Any speculation as to why the 6 month delay?

Not that I'm complaining I didn't like Airtran in our terminal, their employees or their customers where the cause of 4 security breeches in the D terminal and a couple of scary incidents out on the ramp.

Its been nice having the hammerhead all to ourselves, AND the JetRock Bar and grill is scheduled to open Labor day weekend.



User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1074 times:

Don't know about PHL specifically, but when we move around airlines at MSY (usually for construction reasons), there are a few things to take into account:

1) logistics: electrical; computer adaptability; structural, new/refinished walls, counters, etc; will the airline have to move baggage makeup and claim facilities?
2) leases: the rental fees may be higher or lower in the new area, so the lease has to be either adjusted or renegotiated.

It's not as easy as packing up from one place and moving to another.

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineRumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1038 times:

Airtran and UAL have a history in PHL. As UALPHLCS has stated here its not a rosey picture. Since going over to the F concourse Airtrans on time departures out of PHL have gone up almost 30%. I hope though if they go back they use DAL ground services. They have been alot better than ual rampers. Its kind of weird because Airtran uses UAL in EWR and they are great!! We have had many incidents where rampers in PHL either hit aircraft and damaged either 717 or DC9. We shall see I guess.

User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 1002 times:

One thing I hope FL got was another checkpoint at D before they move back. I think that D has the longest lines, other than A during the int'l push(late afternoon, early evening).

User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 980 times:

Fl is going to do its own ground handling in PHL when they come to D. Fl was quite aware that UA planes took priority over FL planes for pushback. AC aircraft also took priority over Fl for pushback as well.

However, this doesn't explain why FL agents routinly left garbage from the previous flights on UA's jetways. Fl supervisors always blamed UA until they where shown that the garbage had styrofoam coffee cups w/ FL's logo on them. Then there was the incident when the UA mechanics informed the flight crew of a flat nose wheel. The FL pilots said that they would take care of it in ATL. And a second incident when the aircraft powered up to taxi away while still being de-iced. the de-iceing trucks had to scrammble out of the way of the jetblast.

FL's agents where lax w/ security. UA had to change the door codes several times because airtran agents allowed the codes to be seen by passengers, and breaches occured. Thankfully the airport has installed electronic door locks on the new gates in the hammerhead, We now have to swipe our IDs to open the doors. FL agents shouldn't have trouble with this.





User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 974 times:

UALPHLCS:
any other word about what carriers will take the 2 other gates? Also i remember you mentioning a while ago that the air canada flts would be using UA's gates at the hammerhead, however they are still scheduled for D4 i think, i am not sure, why is that?


User currently offlineRumorboy From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 356 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 952 times:

Not to get into a pissing match UALPHLCS, but you guys are not cream and sugar. I can name TONS of instances where you guys dropped the ball. Twice you smashed carts into our aircraft. One was a two week old 717. Another one smashed into our leading edge slat. Had to cancel the flight on that one. OR how about the time your ramper told us he didn't know how to close our forward cargo door. Had to get NWA to help ya on that one. Numerous occasions where headsets were broke or on other aircraft AND the ramper said he wasn't going to the gate next door to get one. Real class there. How many times we were ready to go but yet no rampers to be found. We even had a ramper threaten a captain one time because we wanted to leave early. Called ops and told us NOT to call again or he would come up and kick his ass. Again real class. Not to say Airtran was perfect either. We were always short people there. Catering was a joke, and the jetway looked like crap. That's was an Airtran problem. And about that tire that was flat it wasn't. It was getting bald and was in LEGAL limits to fly. If it was flat there is NO WAY its gonna fly. That doesn't even make sense. You should stick to pulling tickets and smiling for your customers!!!

User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 911 times:

Rumorboy, I may deal w/ the customers but I do talk to the floks downstairs on the ramp. I didn't make it up a mechanic I know and trust was the guy who reported the flat to the crew, and was told not to worry about it they would get it fixed in ATL. The IAM commiteeman for PHL was driving the de-icer truck that had to get out of the jetblact from an FL flight. I heard the story from him, but I know the guy in the bucket that could have been killed by that recklessness. You have a great attitude toward CS rumorboy, did you get a middleseat once and your mad?

Secondly UA doesn't use 717's or DC-9's, what a surprise that you may find a UA bagage handler unfamiliar w/ the pit doors on one.

Lastly Aircarft damages happen. Last time it happend in PHL a bag cart hit the UAX J-41. I am sure this has NEVER happened to Airtran planes in ATL, MCO, no there are NEVER aircaft damages to FL planes now tht they operate on there own.

See this is just what we experienced w/ there agents: "That delay was not FL's fault it was UA." Same old song and dance FL must train all its work groups to blame others for its problems.

To amswer you question USairways85, we tried to operate the Avro from D-11 and D13 the gates where suposed to lower to 6 feet which is the level of the Avro. The night the new gates where opened they towed the 146 to D13 and the jetway could get down to it. So its back to using D5. AC uses D5 and D3 for BAE 146 and CRJ operations. D4 is the other sude of the terminal and is a US gate. Dose anyone know if US will abandon D2 and D4 in the fall. I understand that PHL is losing about 100 lights to the RJ's for the recovery plan. With that many flights gone I wonder if they need the outpost on D concorse.


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 894 times:

I'm guessing that that is 50 takeoffs/landings, as 100 would be about half of US mainline service here. If the airport gets its way, we could see the gates change to preferred status from exclusive. That would mean that US has to have a minimum number of flights to operate all their gates. If they have 34 gates, times the number of flights required(for CO it was 5, I'll assume the same for US), then they need at least 170 dailies. If 50 flights are taken away, then they will have about 150-155. That's enough for only 31 gates, and that means that the airport could probably take away 2-3 of those gates(including the ones on D). Now, if the airport is cruel, they'll make it 6 flights/gate, requiring US to give up 8 gates.

I wouldn't be surprised to see FL move into D2 and D4 if US gives them up. The other airline that wouldn't surprise me is America West. They have more flights and pax/day than CO. If the airport can't get US to change to preferred, then the number of gates stays the same.


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3404 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 882 times:

how did us airways get the gates at D in the first place? if us airways gets rid of the gates at D then i would assume airtran will probably want them rather than the ones all the way out on the hammerhead. but then that leaves 4 unused gates, and if usairways doesnt give up the 2 gates at D then there would be 2 unused gates. america west may want their own gates rather than using CO's, but thats about it, maybe sometime next year we will see some new carriers (frontier and alaska)

User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 852 times:

UALPHLCS -

Have to go with rumorboy on this one. As a crewmember who flew through PHL on many, many, many, many ocassions, I have to say, the UA rampers were HORRIBLE to work with.

I finally got to the point where I simply did not bid trips that went through PHL for that reason alone. I'm not saying it's all UA, as I haven't experienced that in BUF or EWR where UA does a great job of ground handling us, but PHL was awful. Numerous times sat at the gate with the jetbridge pulled while we watched a UA ramp crew sit around, and after about 5-10 minutes past departure time, would saunter over to the gate, making it quite obvious they could care that they were delaying the flight. These days PHL runs great.





User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 840 times:

AS part of the deal FL KNEW that the push back priority was UA, AC, FL. If Fl wasn't ready to go excatly ONTIME or a delayed UA or AC flight was leaving just before it Fl was to wait. Thats the deal they signed. In addition UA ramp does not push back. UA mechanics do. I wasn't hired when FL first came to PHL and was using UA for ground handling, I understand things where fine to start w/ but problems between FL and UA management, the jetway issues and the generally poor way FL was being run soured the relationship. No surprise that we where glad they left. By the time I got hired everyone from Mangement down to the Ramp CS and push crews wished they would go away.

FL is supposed to be using their own employees now. That does make all the difference in the world. But speaking for myself I personally saw CS issues that just don't happen w/ other carriers.

1) Customers running to the gate and BANGING on the closed jetway door to get on.
2) Late runner customer pushed past me to try to gain acsess to the ramp and get to his pushed back airplane.
3) Fl could not get gate space one night, plnae had to wait 45 min on taxi way till US finnally gave them a gate. (US didn't want them on their gate) CS didnot tell waiting people what was going on or why it happened.
4) Late gate agents hid from customers, and especially hid from customers w/ lost luggage.
5)Door codes had to be changed 4 times because FL agents gave away.

I know these things because when the customers failed to find a FL agent they came to UA agents thinking we could help. It was UA agents who frequently had to find missing FL agents, or make airport pages for them to return to the baggage claim area or to the gate. Yes we where glad to see them go. And unless things have improved we won't be glad to see them back.




User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 833 times:

>>3) Fl could not get gate space one night, plnae had to wait 45 min on taxi way till US finnally gave them a gate. (US didn't want them on their gate) CS didnot tell waiting people what was going on or why it happened.<<

I might have been on that flight. Did it happen to be on July 13, 2000?


User currently offlineUALPHLCS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 793 times:

I don't remember the date. I do recall the plane was going to divert to IAD if they couldn't get a gate. At the time IAD was the closest FL station. Then they where told they could land, but they still had no gate. I was meeting flights so I was in and out of UA operations, I wasn't hearing every word of what UA was being told by FL ops in ATL. I do think it was Summer 2000 but I'm not sure. Ilnow the people waiting for the plane almost rioted and the police had to be called.

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