Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Defunct Airline Fleets If They Were Still Around?  
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3697 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2151 times:

Here's a question I've been thinking about for a while:

What do you think airlines like Eastern, the original Pan Am, PeoplExpress, etc., would be flying today if they were still in operation? What modern planes would they have added & what would they have phased out by now?

DeltaRules


Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAFC_ajax00 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 775 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2137 times:

Pan Am would most probably be operating 744s and maybe 777s, I'm not really familiar with the other airlines though!


Once you have tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward; for there you long to return
User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2123 times:

If Wardair Canada Ltd. were still around (and kept out of the scheduled
market) I would assume they would be operating an all airbus fleet of
A340/A330/A310/A320. Although I would much rather envision the Wardair
of 2002 operating B-747-400's/B-777's! They would also have redesigned their livery, replacing the white fuselage with a navy blue one, and "Wardair"
in gold lettering. Also, smashing Flight Attendant uniforms, designed by
either Armani, Valentino or Halston. Aaaah, one can dream, no?

Canadi>nBoy
YYZ


User currently onlineBraniff727 From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 686 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2109 times:

I would imagine Braniff International would be replacing the 727's with either 737-800's or A320's, the DC-8's would have been replaced with 757's. I would think that the 747-SP would still be in the fleet, but eventually replaced with 777 and the 747's might be replaced with 744.

If Braniff were still in the air, they would be all A320's by now with the death of the POS 737's they had, as well as the retirement of the 727's and the awful BAC111's.



Climbing
User currently offlineDanialanwar From Switzerland, joined Mar 2001, 421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

I doubt PanAm would have a new fleet ... they'd still be running 741 and 742s into LHR and JFK with connex flights on 727s to other European destinations  Acting devilish


Best Business Class: Royal Brunei. Best Economy: Singapore Airlines. First: please send money first!
User currently offlineClipperNo1 From Germany, joined May 1999, 672 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

I think PanAm would be one the biggest A330/340 operators around and A320s(they were a launch customer) for domestic connections.


"I really don't know one plane from the other. To me they are just marginal costs with wings."� Alfred Kahn, 1977
User currently offlineZrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3010 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2076 times:

A lot of this depends on the health of the carriers. Are we talking about PA if it were still the world-class carrier it was in the 60's and 70's? Or are we talking about the fledgling airline that flew dirty planes is the 90's?

I'll post as though each airline "pulled through" their troubled times:

PA would honor its Boeing legacy with a fleet of 777's, 767's, 757's and 737's.

TW: 767's, 757's, 717's

PI: Would have eventually bought out US (instead of the other way around) and would fly 330's, 320's, and 717's.

BN: 767's, 737's, 330's

OZ and RC would have merged to form Liberty Airlines: 717's, 737's, 319's, 757's

PE: 737's, 757's, 767's

WA: 737's, 757's, 767's

EA: 717's, 319's, 320's, 330's, 340's, 757's









14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineWn700driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2062 times:

What a boss thing to imagine!!! Good topic DR!
As of 1 July 2002...



For PAA I see

5 744s
26 742s
15 A333s
25 A300-600Rs
55 A320s
40 A319s
8 722s


For BN

25 772s
20 MD11s
50 764s
115 73Gs
24 722s
112 717s

For EA

10 753s
25 A321s
55 A320s
75 MD-88s
55 717s


More to come!


User currently offlineTeva From France, joined Jan 2001, 1869 posts, RR: 16
Reply 8, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2042 times:

in addition, I am prtty sure that the real PanAm would have an order for 10 to 15 A380.
Teva



Ecoute les orgues, Elles jouent pour toi...C'est le requiem pour un con
User currently offlineEA CO AS From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 13252 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1992 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

EA wouldn't have continued to purchase Airbus products, for several reasons:

1. The A-321 and B-757-200 are competing aircraft, and since they already had a fleet of B-757 aircraft (being the launch customer), they would continue to purchase both -200 and -300 equipment.

2. Their relationship with Airbus Industrie had cooled over the years, as they experienced higher-than-normal dispatch reliability problems with their A-300B4 equipment. Airbus was less than cooperative with EA by the time they were on the ropes, especially since they didn't "need" EA anymore due to increasing orders from other U.S. carriers.

3. Marty Shugrue (EA's bankruptcy trustee) had entered into several MOUs with Boeing over using Boeing equipment going forward, assuming EA survived and needed new aircraft.

4. Continental Airlines is where they are today in large part due to Eastern Air Lines (the scavenging of planes, parts, people, equipment, and routes). If EA existed today, it's likely that they would be around INSTEAD of CO. Since CO was already a large Boeing/McDonnell Douglas customer, it's unlikely that a succeeding carrier (assuming EA and CO were integrated, with EA being the surviving entity) would change their fleet significantly.


These things being said, EA's fleet today would have likely looked something like this:

75 B-717-225
125 B-737-825
50 B-757-225
25 B-757-325
30 B-767-325ER

B-777 and larger equipment really wouldn't have been necessary for EA, and none of their routes (assuming they had not expanded further) would have required ETOPS certification. (MIA-LGW had been suspended long before they liquidated)




"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan
User currently offlineRj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1949 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

TWA had ordered A330's and A318's before they were taken over. If they were still around, they would have gotten their A318's by the end of the year and the A330's around the same time as NWA.



User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3697 posts, RR: 9
Reply 11, posted (11 years 7 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1871 times:

Interesting answers. I would have thought PA would have gone all-Airbus with 747-400s, maybe a couple -200s, and maybe some 777s. It seemed like PA & Airbus were gonna be pretty close before they went under.

It would have been interesting to see what they did with the A320 family, if they would have been a big operator of it.

Wn700driver- Thanks for the compliment! I'm surprised no one thought of it before me- I was worried I wouldn't be able to start it!

DeltaRules



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Eastern:
mainline fleet:
737-400/700/800 to replace the 727s and DC-9s
757-200/300 300s in to replace some of the L-1011s.
767-300/400 replacements for the DC-10, A300 and L-1011.

Eastern Shuttle:
737-700s

Eastern Metro Express:
EMB-120s
ERJ-135
ERJ-145
Dash 8-400Q

Air Atlanta (the original, not the one in Iceland):
MD-87s/90s to replace the 727s
757-200s for transcons

Republic:
717s to replace the DC-9-10s/30s
757-200/300
737-800 to replace DC-9-50/80s

Piedmont:
737-700/800
767-300ER
757-200

Peoplexpress:
A319/320
A330-200/300
A340

New York Air:
737-800
757-200/300

PBA:
Dash 8-400Q
CRJ-100/200/700

Air Florida:
737-700
777-200

Midway (mk.1, not the current one):
A319/320

British Caledonian:
747-400
777-200/300
757-200/300
737-700

Laker Air (Skytrain)
A330-200/300
A340


User currently offlineRj777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1753 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I bet if some defunct airlines were still around, we might actually see some airplane programs that were offered but actually shelved.



User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

Of course, some people have a bit of humor about defunct airlines, I was at a recent collectibles show, and one deal had A380 models in Pan Am and various shades of Braniff (which were selling like hotcakes).

User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12321 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (11 years 7 months 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1768 times:

I think when you're considering some of these issues, you also need to look at where these airlines went wrong. From PA's point of view, the situation is particularly interesting in that although most would concede they ordered too many 747s, would Boeing (which had bet the company on the 747) have gone ahead if they hadn't ordered so many. They probably would, I think. However, I think they would have tried to phase out a good number of them, reducing the number to 15. One problem they had is that in the 1970s, there wasn't too much on offer between the 747 and 707 (in size) - only the DC10 and L1011-500, which they eventually went for.

The A310 was a good aircraft for their t/a routes, but it wouldn't have worked on the Pacific, so they'd still have faced commonality issues and until the A340/MD11 came on the scene (they'd probably have gone for the 340), they had nothing to fill that gap. Who knows? Certainly, they'd need to have challenged their reputation for service, which was very poor.



Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Defunct Airlines: If They Were Still Around? posted Sat Dec 20 2003 08:25:01 by Aloha717200
What If They Were Still Around? posted Thu Apr 19 2001 23:19:32 by Matt D
What If They Were Still Around? posted Wed Mar 8 2000 22:04:26 by Matt D
If TWA Were Still Around... posted Thu Nov 18 2004 19:03:21 by Monorail
My Turn: If Reno Air Were Still Around posted Fri Nov 19 2004 08:33:44 by S12PPL
If Eastern And Pan Am Were Still Around... posted Sun Mar 14 2004 22:48:17 by UniTED
What If:MDD Would Still Around And Build The MD12 posted Fri Nov 24 2006 22:53:08 by Columba
Airlines You Wish Were Still Around posted Sat Apr 10 2004 19:19:11 by Thrust
If Canada3000 Were Still Here posted Sun Dec 16 2001 07:44:25 by Rwy31R
If Fokker Was Still Around........ posted Thu Jun 22 2000 00:16:35 by Sea_Tac2000