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AA Abandons BUF  
User currently offlineFlight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3395 posts, RR: 6
Posted (12 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Such a sad story..leaving just American Eagle.  Sad

American pulls plug on big jet service

American Airlines will discontinue their bigger jet service from Buffalo starting in February. So, the bad news is that the bigger jets are leaving, but smaller ones will still service the region. American Eagle will continue to serve the area with smaller planes. NFTA officials say that American Airlines will end 737 jet service on January 31. There are five flights a day to Chicago and one to Dallas. Each of these flights seat more than one hundred passengers. They will be replaced by American Eagle regional jets. They each seat about 44 passengers. There will be six flights a day to Chicago and one to Dallas. Officials advice to book as early as possible this winter.

American says departures are down by 21% since September 11th. They currently serve the area with 737's. Watch Eyewitness News for more details.


http://www.wkbw.com/story.asp?x=109&id=6396


19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineBUFJets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

AA hasn't had 737's in BUF for over a year. They currently use MD-80's and F100's. The story on WKBW is wrong about that. It sounds like the same story as what happened to ROC.

User currently offlineCanadi>nBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1931 times:

Not really a shock, with the numbers down substantially post September 11.
At least American is not pulling out completely from BUF. Pax capacity ex BUF can change/fluctuate like everywhere else. I'm sure at some point in time,
given demand, AA will resume jet service. If there's no current demand for the B737 service, then this can hardly be bad news for BUF.

This topic brought back memories of myself and a couple of school pals, when we played hookey from school and flew Eastern Airlines YYZ-BUF-YYZ (we did this twice). The return airfare back then was USD$37.00. We'd fly to BUF in the morning (EA B-727), and fly back in the early afternoon (EA L-1011). We were three young aircraft addicts! And believe me, BUF would not have been out first choice, but you couldn't beat the price. We even got a hot breakfast on the 23 minute flight to BUF! Of course, our parents had NO idea
what we were up to. And we timed it (flights) to make it home from "school"
at the usual time.


User currently offlineLHMark From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 7255 posts, RR: 46
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 1837 times:

Too bad Oneida Air turned out to be smoke. We could use an airline with WNY's interests at heart!

What the hell... if Pan Am III survives, I still predict service to Niagara Falls!



"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1689 times:

Canadia>nBoy- that's a cool story. I remember the good 'ol days in my early teen years when Eastern served BUF-YYZ with an L-1011. I believe they squeezed in BUF between YYZ-MIA. That big bird really dominated the small Buffalo airport.
It's a shame we've come full circle and now a big airline like AA is giving us 45 pax ERJ service to ORD and DFW. I like the ERJ but I don't want it to become the mainstream aircraft at BUF.


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1630 times:

It is very unlikely that demand at either BUF or ROC is low enough, even in these post 9/11 days, to warrant such a drastic cut in capacity by a Chicago-hubbing airline. The problem is probably yields--AA can't charge enough to feed their voracious cost structure nowadays, and we all know what that means: RJ's. Westbound service has always been a major component of Upstate NY air service. It is extremely unlikely that it suddenly is not in demand.

Southwest, it seems to me, will probably start BUF-MDW service in the next few months. They have a healthy hub operation now at MDW, and the rest of that new airside building is about to open. Plus, 1,000 of the 4,000 new positions WN announced last spring will be at MDW. And now AA's cuts on such a large route. I'd look for three dailies on BUF-MDW. Probably 2-3 dailies on ALB-MDW as well.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineF4N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

To all:

It comes as no real surprise that AA opted out of providing mainline service here; UA is probably next. Both provide limited service here and they are relatively expensive to boot. I really liked the AA 738 service for the brief period that they offered it though.

I think the biggest reason for AA's mainline departure is Southwest; they seem to be on the verge of becoming the dominant force in air service here,
especially as the woes at US continue. It will be interesting to see if CO, DL or NW add any service here. I suspect not, but we shall see....

BUF-ORD on an ERJ? Bite me.... Angry

F4N


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

so will united, i would be willing to bet.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1552 times:

BUF-ORD on an ERJ? Bite me.... F4N

That's what folks in Rochester said about doing ROC-BWI on US's DeHavilland turboprops, after AirTran arrived on the route with their 717's (and lower fares). US ended its ROC-BWI service as of today. One always hates to lose any service, but the market spoke pretty clearly in favor of AirTran.

AA (and UA if they downgrade BUF as F4N and UA contrail suggest) will be in a less favorable position at BUF as regards Northwest. NW still flies all those mainline DC-9's along with their regional a/c. And they've got the new WorldGateway at DTW, along with DTW's great runway layout that doesn't get congested easily like ORD.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineBUFJets From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1526 times:

I flew AA BUF-ORD twice this summer. Inbound/outbound on both trips were 100% full on the MD-80's. Has anyone flown AA into or out of BUF this summer and found the plane empty? I've never experienced that. I can't believe the route wasn't profitable. Here's something else I can't believe- AA has announced discontinuation of mainline AA service to 7 cities. Four of them are BUF, ROC, SYR, and ALB from New York State. Was Western and Central New York the worst yield market? Now AA will only serve New York City with mainline jet service.

My company has its headquarters in the northern Chicago suburbs, so there are a lot of people here at work flying between BUF and ORD. The ERJ's aren't going to go over well. Even if WN starts service into MDW, that won't help as the commute out of MDW is twice as long.


User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1531 times:

ual 777 contrail

I had mentioned a week or so ago, that when I wa working at KBUF, I was on the ramp talking to some UAL workers, and they told me that United wanted to pull out of KBUF, leaving only ACA (United Express). That had everyone up in arms, because ACA would bring in there people, and the UAL employee's would have to transfer to Chicago or something like that.

What is worse, is that with AA's pullout of Crapchester, and now Buffalo, if UAl pulls out of Buffalo, how long until they pull out of Rochester as well?


User currently offlineZrb2 From United States of America, joined May 2000, 896 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

Maybe the mainstream carriers like UA, AA & US are saying to upstate N.Y. ..."OK, you wanted the lowfare carriers, you got 'em, we're not going to compete with WN and AirTran for low yields anymore".

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 1500 times:

The "cartel's" as DCA-ROC guy has dubbed them, have had a tight grip on Western New York for decades. Rochester has always been in the top 6 or so most expensive cities to fly out of. Why? Western NY needed the Air Trans, Southwest's, and jetBlue's, to stop the price bleeding here. The majors compete with the lowfare carries all ove the country, so I'm not buying the fact that Western NY is a different case.

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4506 posts, RR: 33
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1423 times:

Maybe the mainstream carriers like UA, AA & US are saying to upstate N.Y. ..."OK, you wanted the lowfare carriers, you got 'em, we're not going to compete with WN and AirTran for low yields anymore".

The problem with that theory is that AA and UA don't compete with these carriers in Upstate New York on their ORD flights. There is no westbound low-fare competition (now that Vanguard's one daily BUF-MDW-MCI flight is gone) from UNY to the Midwest, and little to most of the West. The impression I have is that yields in general are down due to what the New York Times called the "business fliers revolt" against late 1990's fares. Even at much higher fares than WN's, AA and UA can't feed their high CASM's unless they get a lot of the juicy late 1990's fares. That ain't happening anymore. Hence the problem.

All I can say is, welcome WN, FL, and B6! As a poor grad student I'll earn a free ticket on AirTran by the winter, something that would take years happen for me on a Cartel carrier. For those who still need to fly directly to Dubuque or Eau Claire, the RJ's will ensure that one can get there.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1360 times:

i would be willing to bet service to BUF,ROC,SYR,MDT,BDL. will be gone soon. then will come the mountain region.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineAmerican 767 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3788 posts, RR: 12
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1334 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

You are saying that among destinations in NY State, only New York City will see mainline AA service. You mention upstate NY airports such as ALB, SYR and BUF to be served with Eagle ERJ's only as oppose to large jets. When you say New York City, do you mean JFK and LGA only? I'm asking that because American still has mainline service (from ORD) to places not far from New York City such as White Plains (HPN) and Newburgh (SWF). Some may consider the latter two being part of New York City but I consider only JFK and LGA being in New York City. I don't talk about Newark (EWR) becaue that's in New Jersey.

Ben Soriano
Brussels Belgium



Ben Soriano
User currently offlineF4N From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1298 times:

Jim:

As far back as I can recall(early 70's flying BUF-ORD on AA-707"Astroliners"),
there were few alternatives to UA/AA for westbound service. NW did not serve BUF and Eastern and (then) Allegheny had no direct service. You can
imagine the price-gouge; even for those now long-off days(for some reason, ~$175.00 one way seems to come to mind, but I may be wrong. Hey! 30 years ago is a long time).

Anyways, the recent AA pullback seems to be the ideal time for Southwest to cement its' position as the dominant carrier here. If they do initiate BUF-MDW with any sort of frequency, UA/AA can forget it. Why pay more $$$ to fly a CRJ/ERJ to ORD?  Nuts

F4N


User currently offlineUal777contrail From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 week 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1276 times:

f4n,
i dont think that is ua's plan.
i dont think they want to compete in those cities anymore.


ual 777 contrail


User currently offlineFlyPNS1 From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 6608 posts, RR: 24
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 1249 times:

American 767,

American no longer flies mainline on ORD-SWF....its all RJ's now. ORD-HPN is still mainline....at least for now.


User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (12 years 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1159 times:

"i would be willing to bet service to BUF,ROC,SYR,MDT,BDL. will be gone soon. then will come the mountain region."

You think American would stop service to BDL? Are you nuts? They are the second largest carrier at BDL, have plans to move into a new large terminal with 6 Gates (Most at BDL) and offer flights not only to ORD but, STL, MIA, DFW, JFK, SJU, and RDU. LAX use to be served before 9-11.


BDL-ORD 6 daily departures
BDL-DFW 4
BDL-STL 3 (4 pre 9-11)
BDL-JFK 3 (Eagle props)
BDL-RDU 3 (Eagle jets)
BDL-MIA 2
BDL-SJU 2 (2 757's)



What is it that makes you think AA would get out of a decent sized market where they serve well over 1 million pax a year? PVD would certainly go before BDL!


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