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A Tu-154M With Rolls-Royce Engines?  
User currently offlineAviastar From Belarus, joined Nov 2000, 280 posts, RR: 4
Posted (12 years 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 7997 times:

Has the Polish president's plane (101) RR engines, as wrote the photographer?

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Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Radoslaw Idaszak


Outwardly the left engine looks like a good old Soloviev D-30, unless a Tay 620 is hidden inside?  Confused

53 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7838 times:

Poland had it's Tu-154Ms reengined and the aircraft's electronics updated.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

Thats a new one to me !!.

Would it not have been cheaper to get a second hand Boeing ?


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6611 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7804 times:

Accoring to JP, it has 2 SO D-30KU-154-II engines.

User currently offlineBWIrwy4 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 940 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7785 times:

Cx flyboy: Then what's the third engine?

User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7788 times:

It was a typo, should be three !!

User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16285 posts, RR: 56
Reply 6, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7784 times:

The TU-154 has never been considered for RR re-engining. Only the TU-204.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7762 times:

Boeing makes avionics? Since when?

There's your answer  Smile


User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7717 times:

As I posted in the tech forum to a similar question:

---------------------------------------------------

Too much of that Polish vodka I think.

Seriously, I dont know for sure but Id say that not in a billion years are they RR. Imagine the cost and certification hassles... and Poland only has 2 of these aircraft: 101 and 102 (the others in the VIP fleet are Yak-40s and a few helicopters).

If they were going to take the effort to adapt the aircraft for RR engines and other avionics, why not just buy a Boeing? Remember that its not only a case of bolting a similar engine onto an airframe. There are hundreds of things to take into account. The airframe was designed for D-30s and any others will cause untold problems.

No way, in my opinion!

B4e, where do you get your information?


User currently offlineBackfire From Germany, joined Oct 2006, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 7698 times:

This Tu-154 was originally ordered by the Polish Air Force in 1988 and rolled out on 29 June 1990. It was originally registered number 837 but was re-registered in 1995 to its present status number 101.

It was orginally equipped with D-30-KU154II engines and these powerplants are still fitted on the aircraft.

The jet is furnished as a VIP transport for the service of President Kwasniewski and carries the "Rzeczpospolita Polska" (Republic of Poland) designation insignia along with the red/white checkerboard marking of the Polish Air Force.


User currently offlineNewSwissair From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 282 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 7690 times:

All Tu-154M have D-30 engines. It is not possible to install Rolls Royce engines.

User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 7577 times:

Correction: The avionics are Western, this is known. As for the engines, it's possible that RR did work on them. Who knows other than the Polish Air Force?

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7537 times:

The "western" avionics aren't known. If they are known, then why does the photographer state "Boeing avionics". Since when has Boeing made an avionics suite for the Tu-154? Or any other aircraft for that fact.

This Tu-154 may have a few bits and pieces from non-Russian/CIS sources on board, but I doubt they have a full avionics suite.

Also, why would RR work on the engines? This would basically put RR face-to-face with a legal quagmire if anything happened to those engines.


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 7513 times:

B4e is talking cr@p as usual ... if you don't know the real answer to a question, B4e, don't make it up!  Yeah sure  Insane

The aircraft might well have gone through the interior upgrade at Shannon, but that does not mean that (a) they have Western avionics; or (b) Rolls went anywhere near the engines. In fact, Rolls only touch engines they have built themselves or that they have licence deals on such as the RAF Allison engines.


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7428 times:

Wow, you guys, both Avitsiya and SAS as usual spout unconstructive flamebait. Listen up SAS, you want to join a discussion, fine, but don't spout crap.

The avionics suite on that aircraft were redone, the engines, I have no idea. But then again, you guys don't know do you? Do you work for the Polish airforce? No. The Poles may bloody well have put in new avionics.

As for "Boeing Avionics"...I didn't photograph that aircraft, so don't attack me for the caption, genius!

Both of you go email the Polish airforce if you want an explanation. But if you treat them with the same amount of disprespect you treated me, they may tell you to go stick it up somewhere.

B4e is talking cr@p as usual ... if you don't know the real answer to a question, B4e, don't make it up!

Kudos to your hypocrasy. If you take your own advice, I expect you to stop constantly starting I v. P threads.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Forgot to add...I didn't say "Boeing Avionics". Also note in my recent post, the word "correction" and the word "possible". If it isn't possible that RR worked on the engines, then state so without flamebait. It's amazing neither of you two have been banned.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers


User currently offlineAviatsiya.ru From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

OK Boeing4Ever.

Nothing I have said on this thread is constructive. It is all flamebait huh? You wonder why I haven't been banned yet?

OK Мудозвон...let me fix that problem for you shall I?

You know buddy, it is Мудак like you who are basically ruining the forums. I ain't sticking around any longer.

You seem to know it all. Well, you tell everyone want they want to know in future.

I have had enough of the shit which has slowly denegrated the forums in the last 12 months, and I ain't sticking around any longer. Maybe when things change in the future, I might be back, but unless Johan does something major about the problems in the forums, I doubt that will ever happen.

Those of you who want to keep in touch, you should know how to find me.

Пока


Скотти
Aeroplane.ru
Aviatsiya


User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7305 times:

Hmm, so B4e, we are supposed to believe that you, as a Chicago based 16-20 year old, happen to have a hot-line into the highest echelons of the Polish Air Force so that you know exactly what has been installed on the Polish VIP fleet, right? Yeah, sure.  Yeah sure

You have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge of technical matters by saying that Rolls worked on the Solionev engines. Clearly, you think that aircraft engines are like car ones - that any Tom, Dick or Harry with a set of spanners can work on them. Well, I've got news for you, kid - they can't. Each engine has its own specific tooling, without which you cannot open it up. Each engine can also only be signed off for return to service by people who hold specific licences for that engine, meaning that they have undergone comprehensive training on it.

I mentioned this yesterday to one of the senior people at Rolls Derby we are working with at the moment, and after he picked himself off the floor due to laughter at the stupidity of the suggestion, he categorically denied that Rolls has (or has any plans to in the future) done any work whatsoever on any existing Russian engines.

B4e - you are the weakest link, goodbye!  Yeah sure  Insane


User currently offlineRA-85154 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2001, 618 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7293 times:

When Russian planes are being re-engined, they will use RUSSIAN engines first; Volga Dnepr for instance is investigation the possibility of re-engining their IL-76's, with Solovyev PS-90 engines! (TU-204 /IL-96) and no RR's of whatever. The only Russian plane with RR engines is the TU-204, but a Tu-154 with RR-engines, haha come on...

Please think first before replying B4e..replies like yours spoil this forum and take down its level, and I believe it is not the first time this is said to you...

greez
Martijn


User currently offlineBen From Switzerland, joined Aug 1999, 1391 posts, RR: 50
Reply 19, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

To add to what Martijn said...

The Tu-204 series can be fitted with RR engines because the airframes were specifically designed/modified by the manufacturer for this type of engine to be fitted.

As I said before, there is more to fitting a new engine than just bolting it onto a fuselage. For instance the parameters in the FBW software must be modified for the characteristics/performance of that particular engine... and there is much more... Like SAS23 says, the tooling kits etc. Come on, That Tu-154 doesnt need foreign avionics or engines to make it any more sexy!!

Soloviev/Kuznetzov engines are perfect for that application (Tu-154) so there is no need to change them - no matter how inferior anyone may think Russian/Sovet technology is (of course it isnt inferior but Im just saying it to make a point).


User currently offlineKrvavec From Slovenia, joined Jul 2001, 8 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7253 times:

I must say this out of my dbase, in the matter of speaking about reengined Russian planes:
You are right when saying that the only RR Russian plane so far is TU 204 - with RB211-535. The same is going on new TU 224 (not flown yet) with RB211-535E4.

There's also An 124 Ruslan: ZMKB Progress (Lotarev) D18T or Aviadvigatel nk93. This plane also has (had) options for RR RB211524G or GE CF680.
About TU154M - definitely russian engines.

I hope i put some new aspects and infos onto this site.

P


User currently offlineBoeing4ever From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7179 times:

Hmm, so B4e, we are supposed to believe that you, as a Chicago based 16-20 year old, happen to have a hot-line into the highest echelons of the Polish Air Force so that you know exactly what has been installed on the Polish VIP fleet, right? Yeah, sure

Did I say I know exactly what is installed in the Polish VIP fleet? Did I say I am a member of the Polish Airforce. No. I clearly did not. You are putting words in my mouth again SAS.

You have demonstrated your complete lack of knowledge of technical matters by saying that Rolls worked on the Solionev engines. Clearly, you think that aircraft engines are like car ones - that any Tom, Dick or Harry with a set of spanners can work on them. Well, I've got news for you, kid - they can't. Each engine has its own specific tooling, without which you cannot open it up. Each engine can also only be signed off for return to service by people who hold specific licences for that engine, meaning that they have undergone comprehensive training on it.

Again, go ask the people who actually work on that plane. I said it was POSSIBLE, not definate that those engines were looked at, touched, etc, by RR. Wasn't the MiG-15 powered by a Russian knockoff of an RR engine? Go email a correction to the photographer, and stop making a crisis out of it.

I mentioned this yesterday to one of the senior people at Rolls Derby we are working with at the moment, and after he picked himself off the floor due to laughter at the stupidity of the suggestion, he categorically denied that Rolls has (or has any plans to in the future) done any work whatsoever on any existing Russian engines.

So suddenly you have connections with people at Rolls. I'll believe that Rolls has, or has ever had plans to work on Russian engines, but you with a link to a guy at the Rolls Derby!? Please.

B4e - you are the weakest link, goodbye!

How childish, copying your idol Goodbye.

Please think first before replying B4e..replies like yours spoil this forum and take down its level, and I believe it is not the first time this is said to you...

First time this has been said to me actually, but I find it irrelavant. My posts do not degrade the forums. Go look at the non-av forum for links to pointless threads and posts.

B4e-Forever New Frontiers

PS-as for Aviatsiya, good riddance, but if I forced him out, clearly he is a drama queen. There are many others on this forum who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out.

And as for everyone else, at least they can have a discussion on engines without resorting to the mud-slinging that SAS23 and Aviatsiya resorted to.




User currently offlineVirginFlyer From New Zealand, joined Sep 2000, 4575 posts, RR: 41
Reply 22, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7150 times:

I really don't want to get involved in this, but I feel the need to say this.

as for Aviatsiya, good riddance, but if I forced him out, clearly he is a drama queen. There are many others on this forum who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out.

Good riddance? Aviatsiya.ru (formerly BrissieLions) has been one of the best sources of information on Russian and former soviet bloc aviation on this forum, period. I remember him being here when I joined two years ago, and I always know that when some ignorant teenager tries to announce to the world that Russian aircraft are unsafe/old/uncomfortable/bad, Aviatsiya has been the guy to try and point out this incorrect view. One thing is for sure, he posted more information and interesting posts in a day than I have ever seen you post. So I really don't think you have the right to boast about "forcing him out". Perhaps I missed out on something somewhere, but I am unaware of anyone else here "who hate him, and would have reason to harass him, or drive him out." Besides which, hating someone is not reason to harass them (or drive them out for that matter).

Now, kindly grow up, for everyone's sake. I am 19 years old, and I am sick to death of having the 16-20 age bracket made to appear like a complete bunch of fools because some people have the maturity level of a small child. Other people here, I am sure, are sick to death of petty and worthless postings. It doesn't make the place any better, it just drives all our more respected users away. Now I don't know about you, but I have to pay for all the internet I use, and it is charged by the MB. I see this forum as a very good resource of information, and I don't have a problem with having to pay a fair bit every monthly so I can use it. I do have a problem however when inconsiderate users result in the more informative members of this community electing to stay away. Perhaps if you continue to "force people out", I will start sending you my internet bill, or perhaps I will simply join the ranks of other people who have stopped coming here. That would be a sad day for me. And if it happens to enough people, I am sure Johan would not be terribly happy about it either.

And please don't take offence at this post of mine - after all, if you are going to take upon yourself the responsibility of forcing out other users, as you boast about, then you have to take the negative publicity that comes with that. If you can't handle the heat, I kindly suggest you don't light the fire.

Finally, I suggest you write a letter to Johan explaining to him why it is you feel the need to force out the more informative members of this forum. I certainly shall be writing one to him explaining to him why I feel that something needs to be done about upstart children trying to control what is an adult bulletin board, and giving all the other minors who use it properly a bad image.

V/F



"So powerful is the light of unity that it can illuminate the whole earth." - Bahá'u'lláh
User currently offlineSAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7159 times:

B4e, you made a statement: The avionics are Western, this is known; and very ungrammaticaly followed it up in a subsequent post: The avionics suite on that aircraft were redone.

Clearly, as a teen from Chicago, it is highly unlikely that you have first-hand experience of the Polish VIP aircraft yet you are speaking on here as if you do. The only people who do are members of the Polish Air Force. Draw your own conclusions.  Big grin

Next, you try to back-track on your earlier assertions that the TU154 has either been re-engined with RR engines (Poland had it's Tu-154Ms reengined ) or alternatively that RR maintains their Soloviev engines (As for the engines, it's possible that RR did work on them) despite having been told by a number of people that know considerably more about aircraft maintenance than you do that it is impossible.

And yes, I am in very frequent contact with Rolls Derby (Derby is the city where the engines are built and Rolls has its head office, since you clearly didn't know that, either) - what engine do you think powers the L1011?  Yeah sure  Insane

You are typical of the teen know-it-all that is significantly lowering the quality of these forums and driving away the best of the users. Not only do you post cr@p, but when you are challenged about it, instead of apologising and actually learning something from people that have considerably more experience than you do, you attack those people and try to weasel around with what you said or did not say previously.

Finally, some more information for you, B4e - You are the weakest link, goodbye! is the catchphrase of Ann Robinson, the presenter of a programme called the Weakest Link. I strongly suggest you take it to heart and refrain from participating here for some time ... like the next five years.


User currently offline9V-SVA From Singapore, joined Aug 2001, 1860 posts, RR: 8
Reply 24, posted (12 years 2 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 7149 times:

I agree totally with SAS23, Aviatsiya.ru and VirginFlyer. Boeing4ever, your posts have caused the forums to become worse these days. You never admit you're wrong, aren't you?

Well, let me tell you something, YOU'RE WRONG! Face it. If you can't face the fact that you are wrong, I really think you need psychiatric help. The TU-154 can't be re-engined, by the way. Even if they were re-engined, they will choose Russian engines first! And, since when does Boeing build avionics systems? I thought Rockwell Collins and Honeywell did that.

9V-SVA



9V-SVA | B772ER
25 Post contains images VH-OJO : VirginFlyer you are right on ! Could not have it put it better myself. As a big soviet/russian aviation fan, Aviatsia.ru leaving this forum will be a
26 9V-SVA : BTW Boeing4ever, is "mudslinging" your favourite word of late? I don't see any instances of mudslinging in any of Aviatsiya.ru's and SAS23's posts. Yo
27 Post contains images Aviastar : A lot of fuss for nothing unless a Tay 620 is hidden inside? There must be another way to discuss. Let's add a little humour, self-effacement, etc in
28 Ben : Yeah... western 'avionics' if you mean a western-made GPS, TCAS and (maybe) some sort of trip computer... but nothing in the way of fundamental flight
29 Post contains links and images RA-85154 : Already in 1977 Tupolev 154B-2 production began with a French automatic flight control and navigation system (Thomson-CSF/SFIM according to a my info
30 SAS23 : The only thing that I can see that looks Western in that pic is the GPS and TCAS!
31 Boeing4ever : Wow, a mouth full. VirginFlyer, I did not "boast about forcing Aviatsiya out". I didn't. He blames me for why he left, and I find that strange. He has
32 AWspicious : Re: Pic posted by RA-85154 - Does the Flight Engineer of that BAC TU-154 have throttle controls at is seat, also? Cool! aw
33 Post contains images RA-85154 : AWspicious: they are used by the engineer when he thinks the plane is not going fast enough No serious; these 'throttles' are part of the starting up-
34 SAS23 : The VC10 has exactly the same thing.
35 Post contains links and images RA-85154 : B4e, this is one of the closest shots of the Polish TU-154M, unfortunately no inside pics; http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?1031341733:LJU Strang
36 9V-SVA : Boeing4ever, Is this relevant? They attacked me, called me stupid, said I post crap, and claimed I ruin the forums. Sorry, but they are mudslinging. D
37 Post contains images SAS23 : Actually, 9V-SVA, the CalWings project was dropped after 9/11 though I am working on something else at the moment.
38 Boeing4ever : RA-interesting indeed. Perhaps the Russian Tu-154s have additional equipment? 9V: Do you know what tolerance is? It's true that you post crap. They ca
39 Post contains links Boeing4ever : Would the Rzeczpospolita Polska have an emailadress so we could ask them about this case Here's a link to Poland's Ministry of Defence: http://www.wp.
40 Post contains images RA-85154 : Boeing4ever: I have seen pictures of the Presidential Tu-154's and IL-62M's of countries like Azerbaijan , Ukraina and Georgia, but none of them had t
41 Post contains images SAS23 : Children, children. Right - so we have ascertained the following: 1) The aircraft was not re-engined with RR engines. 2) Rolls have not done any work
42 9V-SVA : Boeing4ever, As he stated, Cal Wings was dropped. So what if CalWings was dropped? He could still have contacts. If his project is shelved, that DOES
43 Boeing4ever : 9V, So what if CalWings was dropped? He could still have contacts. If his project is shelved, that DOES NOT mean that he has to avoid his friends at R
44 VirginFlyer : 9V-SVA & Boeing4ever - I have interjected once into this fraccas, and I am going to do it again - would you please not hijack this thread any further.
45 Post contains links RA-85154 : Look what I found: http://www.polandembassy.org/News/Biuletyny_news/news_biuletyn_4_14.htm Szmajdzinski: Tender for Planes for VIPs Soon Cracow, April
46 Post contains images SAS23 : B4e - I have a large number of contacts (some of whom are personal friends) at Rolls. I am in almost daily contact with them regarding engines we have
47 Post contains images Boeing4ever : Notwithstanding the fact that your assertions have all been shown to be incorrect, only someone in the Polish Air Force would be able to validly make
48 Post contains links and images RA-85154 : Hi Check this: http://www.flugzeugbilder.de/show.cgi?1031341733:LJU On this pic I posted earlier you can see the opened 'clam-shell' thrust reverser,
49 Post contains images RA-85154 : I just sent Radoslaw Idaszak an email, so let's see....
50 Post contains images Boeing4ever : RA...most likely from a Polish Newspaper. But hey, this paper definately did a better job than CNN mostly does. Anyone ever fly the Boeing 767-A300ER
51 RA-85154 : Boeing4ever: Ever since I read the CNN-comparision of the Boeing 757 and Tupolev 154 after the midair collision over Germany, CNN to me is ready for s
52 Post contains images Boeing4ever : I have you beat RA. A History Channel special on commercial jets showed footage of an A330 and stated that it was the direct competitor to the 737. B4
53 LOT767-300ER : Whoa Calm down my children...... The Tu-154s do have the original D-30s on em. A crapload of noise too because i used to go down to Warsaw airport eve
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