Jet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 2059 times:
Singapore Airlines (SIA) has launched it's long awaited "W" requirement for an A310 replacement, according to this weeks Flight Int.
They have requested proposals from planebuilders and engine makers for a mix of 19 narrow and widebody jets plus 22 options.
It is believed it will be one of the most fiercely contested order battles in airline history. Last year Boeing's agreement to remarket SIA's A340s in exchange for more 777 orders sparked controvesy. This latest order could be very important in determining SIA's furure fleet strategy regarding which manufacturer it chooses.
SIA want 7 250-300 seat widebodies plus 10 options to be delivered from 2003. However, neither the proposed A330-100 or B777-100 have been launched yet. As a result SIA wants the right to switch orders between the B777-100 and -200 or between A330-100 and -200.
However, because the 777/A330 are significantly bigger than the A310, SIA will also be looking to order 12 narrowbodies plus 12 options. It is reported the choice will be between the A321 and the B737-900.
"While widebody commonality might appear to favour Boeing the selection of narrowbodies would lean towards Airbus. SIA subsidiary SilkAir is replacing it's 737-300s with 10 IAE V2500 powered A319/320s It's joint venture leasing company SALE has ordered 39 A320/321s.
It is my personal opinion they may well be a split order. Obviously all the pointers are towards the A320 for the smaller planes and the B777 for larger ones. Although, failiure to launch either the 331/771 may leave SIA with little choice about it's order. As I understand it, these aircraft are in very early stages of developement, although they are both deriviatves of course.
I must say I was a little surprised the B767-400 wasn't included in this. It would have had some commonality with the 777 (Flightdeck, cabin etc) would be available sooner and would probably be cheaper to buy than either the 331 or 771. Anyone know why the 764 may have been overlooked - or for that matter, why has the 767 been almost a total failiure in Asia apart from China?
Tripple Seven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1903 times:
Has any other airline expressed their interest in the A330-100 or 777-100 other than SIA ? If Singapore Airlines is interested in the A330-100 and 777-100 and if they were the only customer, would the strenght of this order constitute a launch order ?
Kaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 13017 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1892 times:
If the 777-100 were launched at all, and it's a big if, it would be aimed mostly at ultra long haul flying, not the short hops SIA would be looking at with its W class aircraft.
SIA would not be the only one looking at the 331 (which as I understand it is an A330-200 with a reworked A300-600 wing). Hapag Lloyd and Lufthansa are also interested, so it's closer to being a reality than the 771.
Personally, I see it as being a split between long haul and short haul in SIA; Boeing will do long haul and Airbus will look after the short haul side. I would expect SIA to suggest to Airbus that the cancellation of the A340-500 would form part of the A321/331 deal. Look for 12 331s and 8-10 A321s, many of the latter coming from SALE?
Tripple Seven From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1881 times:
If SIA overlooked the 767-400 then there is no proper replacement...not till five to six years later when these planes enters service ONLY if they were ever launched. Has anyone thought of a possible 777-200SR or a A330-200SR ?? Like a 747SR......beefed up landing gears, derated engines and so on. An SR version of the existing models would be easier to come by I guess.
KLM 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 1860 times:
It has been said that potential customers for a proposed A330-100 aircraft include current operators of the A310 and A300 who want to phase those aircraft out such as Lufthansa, Singapore, etc.
I have always found it amusing when people claim that the A330 is too big for Lufthansa especially since their current A300-600R's have nearly the exact same configuration as their A340's. I think when the time comes (LH's A310's and A300's are actually still pretty new) they will just buy A330's and outfit them with an expanded First/Club class with perhaps a few comforts for the Y-class folks.
Swissair successfully replaced all their 310's with 330's.
If Swissair replaced its 310's with 330's, why can't other carriers do the same?
It doesn't seem feasible to launch such an aircraft, though it would be a derivative frame, for such a pithy amount of orders when a decent replacement aircraft is already available. The A330-200 is really not that big at all and seems like a good enough replacement. Factor in its nifty technology and there is surely some money to be saved.
I like the A300 just the way it is and I think its a fine aircraft....I vote for a A300NG (Who's listening?) with A330 style refinements. Unfortunately the airlines want only the latest and greatest. I think it would be great if BOTH Boeing and Airbus gave SIA an affectionate "Screw You" for once and choose from what we already have end of story.
Mas777 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 1999, 2939 posts, RR: 5
Reply 10, posted (15 years 7 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1810 times:
I wouldn't consider the 767 a failure in Asia - China, Japan, Brunei, Taiwan and Australia all have major airlines operating the type. The major difference in the Airbus gaining such popularity in the rest of Asia really is the fact that the Airbus A310 became the obvious choice for airlines who were already operating the A300 which was in service before the 767...and from there most of these operators stuck with the A330.
Airbus also got many of these carriers (eg. Malaysia Airlines, Korean Air and Thai) quite involved in the development of the A330. I remember that MAS operated a pre-production model of the A330 for a few weeks before its delivery began.
The 767 is also less suited to many of these carriers demands. Many of the Airbus carriers like the commonality of their cockpit design - useful for many Asian airlines - due to the different geography and thus route structure - the ability to mix A330/340 crew or A300/310 crew. Although the 767 shares commonality with the 757 - the 757 was even less useful to most Asian carriers. The 757 is too uneconomical for many Asian operators - if they could fill a 757 on a particular route - they might as well place a larger aircraft on the route. This is due to the fact that air travel in Asia was and has returned to the booming rate that is rarely seen in other parts of the world...ie. to operate the 757 would be seen as rather short-sighted by an airline.