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I Regret Posting This Photo  
User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3782 times:
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After reading the discussion on
http://www.pprune.org/
(go to forums > reporting points > Lufthansa Cockpit Door)
I now regret that I posted this photo here at all:

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Photo © Konstantin von Wedelstaedt



Not only is the discussion immature (and this from pilots!), but I got personally flamed, and who knows which consequences this will have for me.

Konstantin


Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTsentsan From Singapore, joined Jan 2002, 2016 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3747 times:

Konstantin,

I'm sure the pilots are worried about their jobs if somebody from management or FAA sees this, and queries. Perhaps the pilots might lose their jobs.

I dont know but this photo might be OK, if you left out the registration and airline flown. :-( Perhaps a correction would be appropriate?

Thanks
Tsentsan



NO URLS in signature
User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6202 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3733 times:

This is over Germany, right? So why would the FAA give a damn?


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineJahckass From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3732 times:

why would the faa care, this is in Germany on a regional, that cannot make the hop accross the pond.

User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3728 times:
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I'm sure they didn't disregard any rules, they wouldn't be that stupid.

It's too late now for a correction, with the trip report and everything...

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineEGGD From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 12443 posts, RR: 35
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3720 times:

uhhh,

Well i've seen this loads of times before. KLM frequently fly with their cockpit doors open on regional flights.

This is just as immature as the newspaper article about Gary Watt's photo  Big grin


User currently offlineCointyro From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 62 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3714 times:

Konstantin,

You're just looking for attention with this dumb post. It is a good photo, but why would you state "Oh no, the FAA would..." - just trying to stir up attention.

Bleh,
Dan


User currently offlineAWspicious From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3707 times:

As far as I know, the FAA has no jurisdiction over German (or any European) airline. Perhaps, you can edit your photo... or, retract (and re-post) it... If you're that concerned.

AW


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3704 times:
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True, the FAA comment was a mistake.


Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3701 times:

Don't sweat it. If the pilots broke with policy, then they deserve to have the book thrown at them. If they didn't, then all is cool. You did absolutely nothing other than take a darn good photograph so don't worry yourself about it.

User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3625 times:

mornin' everybody!

I had myself a good laugh when reading the discussion going on on pprune...and it makes me somewhat nervous to read what so-called professional pilots do have to say about this..are these guys really responsible for the lives of hundreds of people??? ...Good Lord...

Last year my first flight after the sept. 11th events was on sept. 16th, PMI-FRA, ending my holidays, on AeroLloyd. After the big ballyhoo at the airport of Palma I was quite amazed to find the cockpit door wide open and furthermore to hear the pilot inviting all guests aboard to visit the cockpit, if they like to. Dinner, by the way, was served with a regular set of knife, fork and spoon!
The next day I wrote an email to AeroLloyd to inquire if this is the right strategy in these times. Funny enough I received an answer from the marketing office containing the usual blablabla, and another one from the fleet captain (!!!). It was a very long and funny mail about hysterical reactions, customer relations, that seemed quite logical to me, especially since I did not complain about the pilots behaviour but merely asked about strategy.
At some point he asked me if I tried to cut my bread roll with the knife...actually yes, I had done so, or rather I had tried to murder it by amputating most of it to the tray below.

Right...what do I want to say with this lenghty sermon?

1. There's no reason for anybody and certainly not a so-called professional pilot to flame a passenger for making pics aboard an aircraft.

2. There's no reason to flame the pilot of the aircraft, except maybe some hysterical ones, and that is something I do not need in aviation!!!

3. There's no reason to talk about doctoring pics, if you don't know nothing about photography!

4. I don't know if you remember, Konstantin, a few months ago, I asked you about using a digicam...well I can tell you: There's no reason not to use one; I bought a Nikon Coolpix 995 and went to FRA airport..it's downright amazing!!!

Regards

Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineRick767 From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2000, 2662 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3604 times:

Just one of the reasons I don't go on PPRuNe... certainly the above posts are right the FAA have no jurisdiction over this carrier.

The pilots did not break with policy, it is perfectly normal for European regionals to fly with the door open from time to time.



I used to love the smell of Jet-A in the morning...
User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4160 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

I can only confirmit. In early August I had a flight from BSL to HAJ with Swiss and I had no problems to visit the cockpit (door was open all the time) and only due to a thunderstorm at HAJ I wasn´t allowed to jump-seat in the cockpit during landing.

I just read the discussion at pprune and I think some are really overreacting. Just wait a few years then it will have calmed down a bit.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineSabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 47
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3430 times:

BTW, don't want to stir up thing here, but most European airlines have a open door policy, which means that even if the door appears to be safely locked, it isn't; it is simply closed and can be opened just like that.

It greatly enhances the CRM between cabin and cockpit crew you know... and the risks involved are virtually zero.

Besides, what use is there in having a regular cockpit door locked? You can open it in less then half a minute by exercising some force on it!
And even a so-called protected door is b******t! Have they thought about protecting the toilet wall? Who is sitting right in front of the toilet in most planes? Right, the captain, so any idiot firing a gun from the toilet through that wall can knock out the pilot right away! You see, safety stops at the weakest link and there are a lot of week links so it is useless to focus on the door.

This FAA door policy is another example of American hysteria which makes no sense at all! It's much better to have decent security checks at the airports (according to JAA standard allover Europe) than fly around in fortified planes (like the FAA seems to recommend).


User currently offlineGeert From Netherlands, joined Jul 2001, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3391 times:

Konstantin,

I don't read articles but keep up your good work photo-wise!

Geert


User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3374 times:

I just read the discussion at PPRuNe and I think that some people there are overreacting. As Rick767 already mentioned in his reply above, it is normal for European regional airlines that the cockpit door is sometimes open, I saw it on a lot of flights during the last months.

Patrick


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

Flying DUS-TXL in August I only found out that the cockpit crew was a female because the door was open during flight.

Sabenapilot,
Very well said!

Now I will have a look at PPRuNe...

Max


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

...quote "because I'm afraid to say spotters are considered the wart on the backside of aviation by many professionals"?

Interesting!

Though I'm not a spotter but instead just a frequent flyer (and I've heard on several occasions that we are considered to be such a wart, too, but hey, who cares?), I keep asking myself why some guys standing around and taking pics of aircraft or just writing down that they've seen a certain aircraft might be considered to be what you just said!
And who exactly are the professionaly we are talking about? Not the guys from the above mentioned thread on pprunes, I hope. Whoever they are, I really think, there are a lot of worse words for guys posting such a superior bullsh.t!!

Regards

Andreas, waiting for an answer!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 3082 times:

If you regret posting it, then why did you post it again?

User currently offlineCapt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3041 times:

I have to agree on 1 point at least with SAS.....there are an awful lot of silly, childish/immature posts on pprune (as there are here).

Pilots are human beings with emotions, so in that respect, you can't expect them to be 100% sane, integral and understanding.

On the other hand, I'm not a pilot, don't know what it's like to be a pilot, and therefore should think before making comments on subjects I know little about i.e. put up, or shut up.

Whatever, I'm sure the people behind the computer are perfectly decent chaps, but somehow their character changes when it comes to writing posts behind the cloak of anonymity, especially when they become offended.

That's one of the aspects of the internet that I don't like....much easier to fake all sorts of things and completely mislead people.

Fly-K, don't worry. YOU haven't broken any rules, so relax, have a drink and enjoy life.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2956 times:

Actually I think the comment brought up a good point, in a happy accident sorta way...

Is it the European point of view that cockpit intrusion could never happen there? That the US is the target of the terrorists now, and 'we can take a breather?' That ground security is so fool proof that no one could get in a position in flight to compromise the control of the aircraft?

This picture shows trouble waiting to happen. I'm sure there would be a larger, louder outcry from European aviation enthusiasts than here in the States if Europe's cockpits were buttoned up tight and inaccessible, but so be it.

A cockpit assaulter in the US now not only faces reinforced cockpit doors that are always closed but also risks great bodily harm by his fellow passengers should he charge that door. That option is now fairly closed to him in the States. As this picture proves, it isn't in Europe.


User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2912 times:

Cirrus or circus airlines is not LUFTHANSA!
Serioulsy I think not more than 30 or 35% from the active pprune members are professional pilots. Most of them are wanna be`s and nothing more.


User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

I think the biggest risk for Fly-K would be that some yellow-press newspaper like "Bild" or "The Sun" sees this photo and the next day we have the headline: "Lufthansa breaks security rules - is flying with Lufthansa the easiest way to commit suicide?" or something like that, you know what I mean. I agree that it isn't really a big deal, but you know the yellow press and what they can make out of something like that. And LH surely wouldn't be happy about an employee bringing them in such a situation. So I can understand why he is concerned...

User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3149 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2717 times:
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Well if any newspaper used the photo without my permission, and I would get into trouble, I could still sue them.
But I really don't think it's such a big deal. It's what some make from it that annoys me.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently onlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1777 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 2688 times:

This is just as immature as the newspaper article about Gary Watt's photo
*********************

What photo is this?....is it posted here in this site?



Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
25 NoUFO : I flew on a Cirrus Embraer 145 (or was it a Dash 8?) on September 12, 2001. Yes, only one day after Nine-eleven. If my memory serves me right, the pil
26 Sabena332 : I do not think that the topic will make it into a tabloid like Bild, a "newspaper" like that is more interested in Prince Williams last dentist appoin
27 744rules : excuse me for asking, but who is walter mitty
28 Ben : Hysteria and Bild/Sun style trashy reporting is very disruptive. That's the story with the no-fly zones around UK nuclear power stations... It's not b
29 Post contains images Treg : This picture shows trouble waiting to happen. Heavymetal, there has been numerous airplane hijackings before and most likely it can happen sometimes a
30 Jcs17 : If I remember correctly, on commuter aircraft in the US, the cockpit door wasnt required to be closed until recently.
31 RkFast : As someone who lives in NY and watched the towers fall and attended a few funerals for some victims from my hometown, I can say that you did absolutel
32 Chiuaua : Indeed the question remains how safe are we really with the locked cockpit doors. If the 9/11 hi-jackers took the time to learn how to fly an airplane
33 H. Simpson : AGREE, I really love the shot Konstantin. 2 years ago I flew on DL Md-88 and the pilots reamin the door unclosed until cleared for takeoff, obviously
34 Freya : Look at it this way.. some of the posts on 'the other forum' give away far more information likely to be of use to anyone with bad intentions than you
35 IMissPiedmont : I have yet to read anything on that "other forum" that was in the least bit thought out. And people complain about our armchair pilots. Don't worry ab
36 Businessflyer : Fly-K... wouldn't worry about what gets said on Pprune... half of it is complete over-reaction by pilots (well, they claim to be pilots) who cannot st
37 Fly-K : After having seen thing put in perspective, I'm definitetly less worried now - thanks for all of your input and comments! Konstantin
38 Post contains images United_Fan : I remember when I flew Commutair's Beach 1900D in Oct '99 to IAD,the flimsy door was OPEN the entire flight! I was in row 1 on the rh side and watche
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