B747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3729 times:
Don't sweat it. If the pilots broke with policy, then they deserve to have the book thrown at them. If they didn't, then all is cool. You did absolutely nothing other than take a darn good photograph so don't worry yourself about it.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3653 times:
I had myself a good laugh when reading the discussion going on on pprune...and it makes me somewhat nervous to read what so-called professional pilots do have to say about this..are these guys really responsible for the lives of hundreds of people??? ...Good Lord...
Last year my first flight after the sept. 11th events was on sept. 16th, PMI-FRA, ending my holidays, on AeroLloyd. After the big ballyhoo at the airport of Palma I was quite amazed to find the cockpit door wide open and furthermore to hear the pilot inviting all guests aboard to visit the cockpit, if they like to. Dinner, by the way, was served with a regular set of knife, fork and spoon!
The next day I wrote an email to AeroLloyd to inquire if this is the right strategy in these times. Funny enough I received an answer from the marketing office containing the usual blablabla, and another one from the fleet captain (!!!). It was a very long and funny mail about hysterical reactions, customer relations, that seemed quite logical to me, especially since I did not complain about the pilots behaviour but merely asked about strategy.
At some point he asked me if I tried to cut my bread roll with the knife...actually yes, I had done so, or rather I had tried to murder it by amputating most of it to the tray below.
Right...what do I want to say with this lenghty sermon?
1. There's no reason for anybody and certainly not a so-called professional pilot to flame a passenger for making pics aboard an aircraft.
2. There's no reason to flame the pilot of the aircraft, except maybe some hysterical ones, and that is something I do not need in aviation!!!
3. There's no reason to talk about doctoring pics, if you don't know nothing about photography!
4. I don't know if you remember, Konstantin, a few months ago, I asked you about using a digicam...well I can tell you: There's no reason not to use one; I bought a Nikon Coolpix 995 and went to FRA airport..it's downright amazing!!!
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4165 posts, RR: 36
Reply 12, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3486 times:
I can only confirmit. In early August I had a flight from BSL to HAJ with Swiss and I had no problems to visit the cockpit (door was open all the time) and only due to a thunderstorm at HAJ I wasn´t allowed to jump-seat in the cockpit during landing.
I just read the discussion at pprune and I think some are really overreacting. Just wait a few years then it will have calmed down a bit.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2714 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3458 times:
BTW, don't want to stir up thing here, but most European airlines have a open door policy, which means that even if the door appears to be safely locked, it isn't; it is simply closed and can be opened just like that.
It greatly enhances the CRM between cabin and cockpit crew you know... and the risks involved are virtually zero.
Besides, what use is there in having a regular cockpit door locked? You can open it in less then half a minute by exercising some force on it!
And even a so-called protected door is b******t! Have they thought about protecting the toilet wall? Who is sitting right in front of the toilet in most planes? Right, the captain, so any idiot firing a gun from the toilet through that wall can knock out the pilot right away! You see, safety stops at the weakest link and there are a lot of week links so it is useless to focus on the door.
This FAA door policy is another example of American hysteria which makes no sense at all! It's much better to have decent security checks at the airports (according to JAA standard allover Europe) than fly around in fortified planes (like the FAA seems to recommend).
Sabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 3402 times:
I just read the discussion at PPRuNe and I think that some people there are overreacting. As Rick767 already mentioned in his reply above, it is normal for European regional airlines that the cockpit door is sometimes open, I saw it on a lot of flights during the last months.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 17, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 3292 times:
...quote "because I'm afraid to say spotters are considered the wart on the backside of aviation by many professionals"?
Though I'm not a spotter but instead just a frequent flyer (and I've heard on several occasions that we are considered to be such a wart, too, but hey, who cares?), I keep asking myself why some guys standing around and taking pics of aircraft or just writing down that they've seen a certain aircraft might be considered to be what you just said!
And who exactly are the professionaly we are talking about? Not the guys from the above mentioned thread on pprunes, I hope. Whoever they are, I really think, there are a lot of worse words for guys posting such a superior bullsh.t!!
Capt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 3069 times:
I have to agree on 1 point at least with SAS.....there are an awful lot of silly, childish/immature posts on pprune (as there are here).
Pilots are human beings with emotions, so in that respect, you can't expect them to be 100% sane, integral and understanding.
On the other hand, I'm not a pilot, don't know what it's like to be a pilot, and therefore should think before making comments on subjects I know little about i.e. put up, or shut up.
Whatever, I'm sure the people behind the computer are perfectly decent chaps, but somehow their character changes when it comes to writing posts behind the cloak of anonymity, especially when they become offended.
That's one of the aspects of the internet that I don't like....much easier to fake all sorts of things and completely mislead people.
Fly-K, don't worry. YOU haven't broken any rules, so relax, have a drink and enjoy life.
Heavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2984 times:
Actually I think the comment brought up a good point, in a happy accident sorta way...
Is it the European point of view that cockpit intrusion could never happen there? That the US is the target of the terrorists now, and 'we can take a breather?' That ground security is so fool proof that no one could get in a position in flight to compromise the control of the aircraft?
This picture shows trouble waiting to happen. I'm sure there would be a larger, louder outcry from European aviation enthusiasts than here in the States if Europe's cockpits were buttoned up tight and inaccessible, but so be it.
A cockpit assaulter in the US now not only faces reinforced cockpit doors that are always closed but also risks great bodily harm by his fellow passengers should he charge that door. That option is now fairly closed to him in the States. As this picture proves, it isn't in Europe.
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 22, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2888 times:
I think the biggest risk for Fly-K would be that some yellow-press newspaper like "Bild" or "The Sun" sees this photo and the next day we have the headline: "Lufthansa breaks security rules - is flying with Lufthansa the easiest way to commit suicide?" or something like that, you know what I mean. I agree that it isn't really a big deal, but you know the yellow press and what they can make out of something like that. And LH surely wouldn't be happy about an employee bringing them in such a situation. So I can understand why he is concerned...
Fly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3154 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (12 years 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 2745 times:
Well if any newspaper used the photo without my permission, and I would get into trouble, I could still sue them.
But I really don't think it's such a big deal. It's what some make from it that annoys me.
Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...