Capt.Picard From , joined today!, posts, RR: Posted (6 years 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3381 times:
Hey!
Was reading the Airliner World special aircraft publication which came out this month.......was intrigued to read a bit about the CV880/990 and the fact that it was (and still is?) the fastest subsonic commercial passenger plane built...amazing!
Do any fans out there have any web pages where I could find more info on this incredible a/c? I've seen the 880 and 990 restoration project websites (the latter one has many broken links), and know that a museum in Switzerland houses a Swissair 990 in very good (flying?) condition...might fly down to Zurich, catch the train to Lucerne, and have a look at the bird for myself!
Would love to have been able to fly on either model....shame they couldn't compete with Boeing or Douglas.
Sllevin From United States, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6 Reply 1, posted (6 years 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3308 times:
Jon Proctor has a good reference on the CV-880/990, you can get it on Amazon and other locations... The Convair is indeed a sleek airplane, and I have yet to meet a pilot who had flown one and didn't love it. However, it was really too much of a niche aircraft, the last of machines designed expecting to cater to premium services -- so, especially in the crunch of "going coach" they suffered.
Areopagus From United States, joined Sep 2001, 1265 posts, RR: 1 Reply 3, posted (6 years 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3275 times:
From what I've read, the 990's problems were:
1. It was late to market. The 880 was too small and too short-legged, and the 990 was to fix that. But even the 880 was later than the 707 and DC-8.
2. It didn't meet its speed guarantees. The larger nacelle of the rear-fan GE engine produced more drag than the front-fan P&Ws of the competition. Perhaps there were other causes of unexpectedly high drag. Did the 990 ever meet its speed claims? Talk on this forum accepts that it did, but I don't really know.
3. Convair was poorly managed, and they didn't know what it cost them to build a plane. It hurt them.
Dc863 From Madagascar, joined Jun 1999, 1334 posts, RR: 2 Reply 4, posted (6 years 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3234 times:
I've flown on Swissairs 990s and they were fantastic. Take-off was exciting because there, one had the experience that you were travelling on a high performance machine. The only 880s I've been on were Delta aircraft. I felt that they were true hot-rods compared to their larger sister the Coronado or their rival the B720B. The smoke trails for both the 990 and 880 were unmistakeable, you could always tell when it was a Convair. I was lucky to experience them as a passenger but would have been luckier had I been a pilot on one.
CV990 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (6 years 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 3196 times:
Hi!
For those who had the chance to see the Convairs alive that will be a sight memorable. Above all the CV880/990 where a rare aircraft, just compare the numbers..... If for example the CV990 was more common in Europe - you had a window of about 20 years to see them - Swissair first and Spantax later with the CV880 was no so easy, mostly spent their time in North America and Asia. I actually saw both models, the CV990 of Swissair I saw it regulary until they where sold to Spantax in Lisbon. Spantax ones came from time to time to Lisbon too, but I remember seeing them in Madrid, Gatwick. Last one I saw was in 1984 landing in RN03 at Lisbon, I took some b/w photos. The CV880 I saw it once and the only time I recall listening their noise alive.
regards
Touchdown99 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (6 years 3 days ago) and read 3139 times:
If I recall correctly, the main problem was that it was designed for a 2+3 seating unlike the DC8 and the B707 that both came with 3+3 seating, resulting in less capacity and higher operating costs.
Cicadajet From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (6 years 3 days ago) and read 3141 times:
The convair 880 and 990 were indeed great aircraft from (this) enthusiasts POV..of course they were around in a time of other good stuff..VC-10s etc.
Could still see one (or two?) as late as about 1980 at JFK.. Modern Air...although I only saw it parked in the distance.
Is the 880 that Elvis owned still on display at Graceland or thereabouts?
As for the movies, there was a Television movie.. "San Francisco International"..that I believe opened with a good sequence of either an 880 or a 990. (Hope I am remembering correctly..) not a good movie though..unlikely you'll ever come across it...although it was spoofed on Mystery Science Theatre 3000 - and you can probably get *that* copy through the internet with a good search.
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 10040 posts, RR: 71 Reply 12, posted (6 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3078 times:
I remember seeing these great aircraft coming in to LGW, operated by Spantax.
(IIRC the performance problems of the CV990 were sorted in the end).
On a 1988 trip to Palma, the Spantax fleet were parked forlornly on the airport perimeter, having been retired.
Why didn't I ever try to book a flight on Spantax before then? "Regrets, I've a had a few......"
RayChuang From United States, joined Jun 2000, 6869 posts, RR: 6 Reply 13, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3060 times:
The Convair 990A Coronado was a great plane, but it was hampered by the fact that changes in air traffic control systems ("stacking", ground holds, etc.) implemented by the FAA in the early 1960's to prevent a repeat of the mid-air collision between a UA DC-8 and a TW Constellation in the New York City area in 1960 (?) effectively negated the speed advantages of the CV990A. Besides, the CV990A has less passenger seating than the 707 or DC-8.
Capt.Picard From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (6 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3066 times:
RayChuang
Completely understand....a bit like a Londoner buying a Porsche 911......bit pointless, really.
It's records which really attract me....the 'fastest' in any category, be it boat, train, car....anything that moves, which arouses my interest straight away.
Naturally, as the Convair 880/990 was the fastest in its immediate category (subsonic commercial transport aircraft), I became fascinated by it.
Will definitely procure a copy of Jon Proctor's study on the bird!
Anyone else with views or experiences...let us know!
P.S. Does anyone know whether the perfectly preserved Swissair 990 in that museum in Luzerne, is flyable? (just sheer curiosity, I'm not about to go out, and try to get rated on her!)
CV990 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (6 years 2 days ago) and read 2970 times:
Hi!
Fellows when we talk about the Convair jet family - CV880/CV990 - it's not it's sucess or anything else, it's talking about a style, a way of beeing in life, anything diferent, it's like when you have a Mercedes/BMW/AUDI/VOLVO and you buy a SAAB, because it's a complete diferent car, it's like the Convair, it's a complete diferent aircraft, just that!!!
regards
Skymonster From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2001, 3681 posts, RR: 44 Reply 17, posted (6 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2949 times:
Capt.Picard said: Naturally, as the Convair 880/990 was the fastest in its immediate category (subsonic commercial transport aircraft), I became fascinated by it.
The 990 was the fastest regular cruiser, but a DC-8 (if I remember correctly CF-CPG) did something very special. Check out your history references - you may learn something very interesting!
Andy
There are old pilots and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots
VASI From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 192 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (6 years 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2946 times:
Capt. Picard, there is a very nice example in Lucerne indeed in the so called
"Vekehrsmuseum Luzern". Very nice condition, but as I think no more in flyable condition. You can walk inside have a look into the cockpit (covered by glass windows of course) and hear ATC from a flight in the CV990. It is worth going there. Sad to say that she is no more flying!
CV990 From , joined today!, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (6 years 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 2938 times:
Hi!
That CPAir DC-8-43 established that record in a test flight. Flying normally with passengers the CV990 would be always faster than the other 4 engines airliners from that generation ( 707, DC-8 and CV880 ) that's why Cap. Rudolfo Bay founder and owner of the late Spantax called that airliner "The Maserati of the Skies", a clear reference of a also unique italian sports car.
Regards
4holer From United States, joined Feb 2002, 1938 posts, RR: 10 Reply 21, posted (6 years 23 hours ago) and read 2850 times:
Count me in!! Hands up!
I have no recollection of seeing either fly, but as I spent much of the 70's patching planes pass overhead, I like to think that some time, one of of those smoky 4 holers was a Convair.
I'm watching the Lost Birds CV-880 restoration project with great interest. I'll drive to Mojave to see her fly if they can pull it off!
747-451 From United States, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (6 years 21 hours ago) and read 2835 times:
The Convair 880 and 990's are my favorites of all time and I had the chance to fly on many of them.
Delta-880 to/from Atlanta many many times
Northeast-880
Twa-880 (I remeber that well-flew from LAX to Vegas with my parents specifiacally to see the Ike and Tina Turner Review what a show what a plane !!!)
Denver Ports of Call 990's made several appearances on charter here though I never rode them, I liked to livery.
Swissair 990's flew them in Europe on holiday with my parents
Spantax 990's flew them while in holiday in Spain My parents and I
they would plan a side trip to Palma when my Dad would be on business in Madrid.
The 880's and 990's were noteworthy for their debonair styling. A slender fuselage with delicately shaped cockpit windows and trapeziodal entrance doors. Also of note were some of the gold anodized fittings in the interior (around door frames for instance) which were made before the 880/990 name was fianlized (it was called the Skylark and Golden Arrow (with a completely gold anodized fusleage!!) during its earlier stages).
There were problems during its production related to Howard Hughes/TWA (he actually flew one in a test in bare feet). After arguing over price several 880's were left incomplete until agreements were made with Hughes tool company (when Howard hughes owned TWA his tool company owned the planes and leased them to TWA) and became water damaged. 3 ships had to be completely rewired.
The 990 didn't really meet the speed requirements at its introduction. The "speed fairings" (Kuchemann Karrots, named after the aerodynamicist who perfected them for Convair) were a part of the solution helping to area rule the plane and increase speed. As previously noted the nacelles were aproblem on the 990 and part of the fix was to reposition the pylons. The delay forced American and others to buy 720's and led to cancelled orders. However, the im[provemnts did increase the speed, beating all the others. Maserati of the skies...maybe ore like the "Hemi Cuda" of the Skies.
Boeing also lowballed the price on the 720 to kill off the 880.
When I flew the 880's and 990's I was very young, but I really remember the take offs were alot more "fun" than the 727's and 707's that I also flew on at the time. When it took off, it really took off. If you could imagine being in the seat of a Drag racing car and multiply it by 10 times...what a feeling being pushed back into the seat!! Seeing them take off was interesting too, you would be treated to massive amounts of jet noise as well as copious amounts of smoke as it gracefully barrelled down the runway and took to the air. There was no mistaking the early Jet Age and the 880/990 was a good part of it.
My favorite 880's were Delta's (a note of trivia-One of their 880's were contaminated with radioactivity and had to be cleaned in 1972-Embry Riddle's website has the NTSB report). I flew them all overplace from ATL. Friendly cabin crews, nice interiors. The classic livery on the trim fuselage were the epitome of stlye in the early jet age.
My Favorite 990's were the ones from Spantax and I flew on them not only when I was young, but when I traveled to Europe when I was in college. I must have flown on their 990s a dozen times. (trivia-a Spantax 990 survived a mid air with a DC-9 from Aviaco. A section of the 990's wing was torn off and it landed safely, unfortunately, those on the dc-9 perished. Spantax also lost a 990 on a three engine ferry flight to Geneva (Swissair did heavy mx for them) when the crew became disoriented).Spantax had the largest fleet of them, 12, until their collapse in 1988.
Sponsor Message: 
From , joined today!, posts, 
From United States, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, 
From Madagascar, joined Jun 1999, 1334 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 10040 posts, 
From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 4088 posts, 
From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 192 posts, 
