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Edmonton Airport Expansion  
User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 1051 times:

Edmonton airport has been going under alot of changes lately. I herd that they are expanding their terminal building. Does any one kno how many gates are going to be there and any pictures of the new expansion yet?
YWG777

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineLouis From Canada, joined Oct 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 912 times:

OK...I would suggest that you go to www.edmontonairports.com to check the info on expansion, but I won't because it doesn't have any information about it at all. Maybe the media section has something, but I'm not too sure. Definetely has no pictures.

From what I recall, they were going to massively expand the terminal building, but I don't know to how many gates. I think it was between 16-20, but I really don't remember. They're supposed to build an airport hotel, new parking garages, expand the current cargo area and fix up the old terminal building. I don't really remember, so can someone else confirm this for me?

BUT Edmonton Airports was worried about the AC-CP merger because it would reduce the pax, so future expansion would not be necessary. Right now, I don't know if they will actually go through with their plans and finish the rest of the construction. I haven't seen it in the news lately.

To tell you the truth, I don't think YEG needs this expansion. It barely handles gets any passengers the way it is it doesn't look like there will be that much more growth. And if you ask me, these new flights to LAX and YUL won't last more than a few months. They've tried desperately before to add new flights here, but none have had enough passengers to keep them alive.


User currently offlineSeat 1a From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 905 times:

i live in edmonton and will do some research on this...

ummmm.... regarding Louis's post on the new routes, i tend to AGREE, especially with LAX.... i called Air Canada just about 3 weeks ago and the starting fares were just about $800.00 taxes included.... i found that to be ludicrous!

further, the equipment assigned will be CP 737's.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 899 times:

Louis, there are things that need clearing up about YEG. YEG does need the expansion - the current terminal, built in 1963, was only designed to handle 2.5 million passengers at most - nearly 4 million passengers were using the terminal last year. In other words, it's well over capacity. The new terminal expansion is designed to increase the capacity up to at least 6-7 million passengers a year, good for another 15-20 years down the road. They predict about 5.8 million by 2015, but that's a little conservative.

At (under Current Airport Issues), click on the Phasing of the ATR Project, and you will see a nice drawing of what the whole thing will look like when it's finished. Last I heard, Edmonton Airports will go ahead and complete Phase II, but are not ruling out Phase III at all. In fact, they may actualy go ahead! A new hotel is in the plans(phase III). The current terminal is being currently renovated. The new carpark has already been opened last year.

The authority says it's pretty well met the goal of US nonstop flights now that LAX has been added. It's now concentrating it efforts on attracting nonstop service to LHR and Frankfurt. There's enough demand to US airports out there as it is. Salt Lake City, they don't miss it, because the vast majority of YEG passengers were on connecting flights to places like LAX and Phoenix! Flights to YUL and LAX not lasting beyond a few months? Not so, Louis, for there has been enough demand for these flights for several years now! I don't think these flights will fail. They didn't just tack these flights on and say, oh, YEG wants more flights, they can have some. The authority has been calculating and studying passnger needs at YEG for a long time.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 897 times:

Sorry, I didn't type in the link properly (between "At" and "(Current Airport Issues)" in the 2nd paragraph, but here it is: http://www.edmontonairports.com/issues.htm

User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 899 times:

When I was at YEG last summer, they were working on renovating the roof of the existing terminal, and had finished building the new parkades. At that time they hadn't started construction on the rest of the new additions, that has happened since I was there.

To me, the worst thing about YEG is location. Not that I'm a huge fan of the terminal, either, although it should be reasonably nice once they're done with construction. But what YEG needs is a cheap, and FAST way to get into the city. Forget about the highway, a rapid transit link is what they need, I think even more than terminal expansion.

As for routes. I don't know about LAX. It's easy enough to connect at YYC, and there is more fragmentation to the charters, and to US carriers (ie- Horizon connections). With regard to Montreal, I think it will be fine. According to Edmonton Airports stats, about 186 pax per day flew YEG-YUL last year, but they had to connect or take same plane service with one or two stops. So I would guess that they should be able to fly enough passengers on the 737's they're going to use on YEG-YUL to make that make sense.


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 895 times:

I also was in YEG 2 years ago and they were I think building the parkades. I agree The airport is way to far outside the city. They need a subway or train link. Also as for routes is consired. YEG can handle 2 DEN flights as well as having 2 US carriers up there. Possibly 3 if UA decides to proceed with the SFO link. I think that is a few years down the road though. As for a hotel. When did this come in to play?
YWG777


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 897 times:

I agree with you about the location thing on YEG. Even the terminal's nothing to write home about. Calgary Trail sometimes gets really congested during rush hour, especially if there's been an accident(which are too frequent anyways!). The traffic is supposed to get even worse when the City of Edmonton really begins work on a new interchange at Ellerslie(if any Edmontonian can remember, that's where the big grain elevator used to be until last summer) as a part of the ring road work, also to start this year.

Recently, someone from the City of Edmonton came up with a plan for a city-wide LRT(Light Rail Transit) network, including a line to YEG and Leduc. Although a new LRT extension is certainly going to be built southwards from the U of A to Southgate Mall and possibly Heritage Mall before 2006-2008, don't bet on any extension all the way to YEG for a long time. Not only is it expensive, but the current buffoonery of a city bylaw doesn't allow any ETS transportation beyond Edmonton City limits! The way I've seen how this city is run is a little weird compared to others in North America. I've been in Edmonton long enough to know this, believe me.

CFB Namao, just north of Edmonton-and closer, was once proposed as a site for a new civilian international airport back in the '50s, but Defence Canada and NATO got first dibs on this site and that left the current site just west of Leduc. A little crazy to be this close to a major city, this decision by the military was, especially with the risk of a Soviet nuclear attack during the Cold War! (there were some US military planes there sometimes.) CFB Namao arose as a site once again in 1995, during the vote to consolidate all scheduled air service at YEG, but costs were seen as far too great.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 904 times:

I guess that Ellerslie overpass must be pretty well underway. Those grain elevators have been gone for awhile now. I was kind of sad to see them go, they were kind of nice on the edge of the city, always used to go by them on my way to my grandmothers house coming up from Calgary.

A new and improved ring road? It's a great idea. Winnipeg has a perimeter highway and it's very good for traffic to be able to bypass the city or to go to the other side of town, especially heavy trucks. It's a pain to have to drive through the city to go down the trans-Canada highway, like in Calgary. The only good thing about having to go down 16th avenue in Calgary is that Peter's Drive In is an easy stop (how would you guess I'm from Calgary?).

Back to YEG. I think they need something better than just extending the LRT. Like a fast train with only one or two stops. Let people drive to Ellerslie, or even put a station near the Whitemud and have a park-and-ride sort of affair. Make it fast to get into town, and make it economical enough-taxi rides are a fortune for businessmen to get into Edmonton from YEG. Yes, LRT to the airport would be expensive. And they should do it right, as they have for the most part, by putting it underground (that was dumb in Calgary putting railway crossings everywhere). Maybe the provincial government could fork over some money for transportation infrastructure. (Maybe give Calgary money to build the 96th avenue link across to Deerfoot, and extend their LRT to the airport, for their share of the money, and maybe give a little to Lethbridge or some other smaller cities money to upgrade taxiways, aprons, and terminals to make them more attractive to airlines.)

One the topic of consolidation of YXD and YEG (muni/international). Yes, Namao would have been smarter, especially with a chance to start again with a new terminal in '95 (OK, so it would be pricey, but still...). And Namao isn't even an airfield anymore, its an army base. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't it have the longest runway in Canada? They should have used it, they could have even shared the airfield between the military and civil operations. But I think part of the reason for YEG was to make it more attractive to Red Deer, to compete with YYC for that traffic. As far as YXD, I heard there's a bunch of small operators wanting to run 19 seat turboprops into the muni, and that the airport authority is trying to clamp down on them even more. The message the airport authority should hear is that people like YXD, and that the only way to make them want to use YEG is to build a rapid transit link.

As far as Edmonton city hall, I think it has partly to do with their wish to annex Sherwood Park, and other surrounding areas against their will, as to why in part some things are done weird-that infighting is pretty intense. And of course some other things...

Back to one more comment on the terminal at YEG. Personally I can't say I'm much of a fan of it. Architecturally I just love the design of YWG. In terms of as a passenger, YYC is tops. Edmonton isn't great on either count. I just hope they improve the facilities a lot with their renovation, I'm looking forward to seeing the finished product.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 893 times:

Yes, Namao has one of the longest, if not the longest runways in Canada. Fact is, it's one of the emergency landing sites worldwide for the US Space Shuttle! I'm in the middle of a class now. Gotta go now!

User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (14 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 891 times:

Also AC183 you forgot about the new Cheif Pegus Trail that contruction is about to begin on. That is going to be Winnipeg's Inner Freeway while the Perminter HWY will be the outter freeway. Back to YEG......
I think YEG should get a bit larger in size to handle more pax. Not the terminal but the runways. 2-20 and 30-12. They could be expanded to 12,000 feet. Maybe even a new runway. As for the hotel is consirned when did this happen?
YWG777


User currently offlineYBG From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (14 years 10 months 11 hours ago) and read 885 times:

For the flight to YUL, its success will depend a lot on how much AC will make of YUL a hub. Last week, at ADM press conference that reveiled the expansion plans (perspective 2020) for YUL and YMX, R.Milton said that Montréal will have a role with AC similar as Munich with Lufthansa or Osaka with ANA. So they probably have in mind a certain amount of connecting passengers on top of the passengers that travel only between each end of the run.

User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (14 years 10 months 8 hours ago) and read 877 times:

Well if YWG can handle 2 YUL flights I am sure that YEG can handle 1 YUL flight. How many Transborder flights does YEG have? and 2 where?
YWG777


User currently offlineSeat 1a From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (14 years 10 months 7 hours ago) and read 878 times:

technically, YEG does have a YUL flight though it is a direct service each way with a stop at YOW.

i have copied the following from the YEG business plan, 1999:

****7. Air Terminal Redevelopment The EIA Air Terminal Redevelopment (ATR) is currently a $235 million capital improvement to meet the Sypher-Mueller medium forecast of 5,700,000 passengers in 201 5. The existing Terminal Building is 39,000 square metres on four levels with 12 jet bridge positions and eight ground loading positions handling 3,700,000 passengers at varying service levels. After the improvements are completed, the Terminal Building will be approximately 70,000 square metres with 1 8 jet bridges and a minimum of nine regional aircraft positions. The project also includes the construction of a parkade, renovations to the existing tenninal building, utility adjustments, apron expansion and roadway realignment. These elements will be constructed in strategically planned phases to ensure an orderly and operationally effective transition to the new facilities while meeting the needs of airport customers. Approximately $44 million in specific projects were approved against the ATR in 1997 and 1998. Actual progress to date includes the completion of significant architectural and design work, near completion of the parkade, completion of phase 1 of the apron expansion and continuing work on roof repairs in the existing tenninal.*****

I have had a look in the 1998 annual report and they indicate that the improvement projects may include external investors, including a possible hotel and business centre, the hotel is situated at the north side of the terminal facing northwest to the airfield and southeast to the parkade. very similar to the Sheraton attached to terminal 3 at YYZ though the design is slightly different.

just off the top of my head, with regards to current transborder services, there are the 2 AC denver flights, 2 NW flights to MSP, 3 airlink flights to SEA, and Horizon with F28's but i am not sure if they go to SEA or somewhere else. Delta was here but they pulled out.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (14 years 10 months 6 hours ago) and read 874 times:

"Well if YWG can handle 2 YUL flights I am sure that YEG can handle 1 YUL flight" (YWG777's comment)

Not necessarily. Winnipeg is closer to Montreal than Edmonton, and Winnipeg has a larger French population, and although I realize Edmonton has a large CN Rail service centre, but business between Winnipeg and Montreal are stronger than with Edmonton and Montreal, CN Rail's large Symington Yards in Winnipeg being just one example (CN's headquarters are in Montreal, for those non-Canadians out there). Nonetheless, I do feel that YEG will sustain one flight to YUL. But the traffic probably isn't there for a second non-stop, having one non-stop is sustainable given traffic figures for people who were flying on a single ticket through YYZ or YOW to get to YUL.

As far as transborder flights to YEG, that could be tough to get a lot more. As an example, from YYZ it's close enough to a lot of US cities to develop a route with RJ's, but Edmonton is far enough away from US cities that not many markets can be done using that approach, and it's tough to start up a new market with mainline aircraft to a market like Edmonton. I think that is part of the reason why DL pulled out, but continued flying SLC-YYC with CRJ's. CRJ's to YYC are, nonetheless, quite a large reduction from the 757's that I used to see from DL at YYC.


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (14 years 10 months 5 hours ago) and read 877 times:

YEG has these flights:

YUL - One nonstop(on a CP 737) effective April 2
- Another direct flight via YOW, but they'll replace the A320 with a 737. Bummer.
LAX - One nonstop on a CP 737 effective April 2(?)
MSP - 2 flights, one on a NWDC-9, another on a NWA319.
DEN - 2 flights daily on an AirBC BAe 146-200.
SEA - 2 flights daily on Horizon F28-4000(a slightly bigger version than ones CRA uses), soon to be replaced by CRJ-700s.
ORD - 2 flights daily on a CP 737. You guys missed this one!

Yes, it's tough to start a mainline market to YEG. But remember that's usually because it's so close to YYC(which is not only in a larger city, but also because it's on a more east-west alignment of routes across North America AND that it's closer to the US.

Like I said, the airport authority realizes this, and it has said it's met its optimum goal for transborder flights. They don't have any wish to go for a direct flight to, say, Phoenix or Newark or Las Vegas. They know that it'd be waste to do so. DFW was looked at, but I'm not so sure, now that CP is not going to be in the oneworld alliance as of June 1. They're now concentrating now more on trying to get nonstop flights to LHR and FRA(Frankfurt, of course.) That's all the international routes they want, anyway. Like with the US flights, it'd be a waste to try to get flights from YEG to CDG(Paris Charles De Gaulle), or Tokyo.

AC183, you're right that YEG probably couldn't have a second nonstop to YUL due to the lower demand. The same probably goes for LAX, but I think a second could come up in a few years. There is more than enough demand right now for a direct flight to LAX.

Connecting through YYC is a huge pain in the butt for me, personally. I damn well near missed a connection to YVR because a CRA Dash 8 was so late in getting to YEG in the first place! Airlines tend to assume that YEG passengers won’t mind changing planes at YYC. Not so, says me. I’ve found recently that as many as 70% of the passengers flying the YEG-YYC route is not from either Edmonton or Calgary! This, I believe, speaks for itself. In fact, having to change planes at YYC is about the second most often heard complaint at YEG, after the high airfares one must pay to go to Fort McMurray and Yellowknife, and Grande Prairie (before WestJet).


User currently offlineYWG777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (14 years 10 months 3 hours ago) and read 875 times:

I missed that ORD route two.. I thought YEG only had 1 ORD flight not 2. Also YEG should get a flight into AMS. I have been hearing that a KLM flight comes to YEG every sunday morning and than proceeds to AMS. KLM does this exact route.
AMS-YOW,YWG,YEG,AMS. That is what I have been hearing. As for the airport is concerned I think a Observation lounge would be nice there.
YWG777


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (14 years 10 months 2 hours ago) and read 876 times:

Boeing 777, I checked the sked and it's only 1 737 on YEG-ORD. The other flight is an AC codeshare of the same flight.

I have a friend who's a rampie at YYC, and he said an awful lot of passengers connect to international flights at YYC from YEG. I am somewhat surprised that AC didn't reschedule at least one of the two LHR flights from YYC to go to YEG. Even if they only went to a one-stop, or maybe an arrangement like the LHR to YHZ and YYT flights where they could alternate non-stop and one-stop flights through the week.

As far as other destinations from YEG. Charters pick up a lot of routes seasonally at all airports in Canada. But year round, I think YEG needs at least one more US airline to come in. The obvious choices would be AA or DL (to ORD or return to SLC). While I realize the flights aren't easy to get going, I think there needs to be more choice of carriers in the market, and I think there is room for that. For one more carrier, anyways. Actually, PHX would be a really good destination, at least seasonally, if America West ever wanted to look at it, but their act isn't really together right now.

YWG777, I don't believe KLM serves either YEG or YYC. I remember seeing their 747-300's at YYC, but that was several years ago since they pulled out. I believe AMS is only served by Martinair, as a charter route flying AMS-YEG-YYC-AMS circle route. Really, KLM can offer adaquete flights using NW's alliance position at MSP. But if they were really interested in serving Canada, I'm sure people would love to connect at AMS rather than YYC. Trouble is, I think AC would quickly move in with a non-stop, so KLM would be wasting its time as it would be quickly pushed aside.


User currently offlineYEG 757 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (14 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 879 times:

Being an Edmontonian, I really hate the inconvenience of that connection in Calgary too. Unfortunately, I think that demographics may be stacked against us. With Edmonton being primarily a blue-collar town, and Calgary white-collar, and with the business traveller contributing more lucrative profit margins to an airline, it doesn't surprise me that the majors have focused their Alberta flights in Calgary. They would rather offer the Calgary business traveller the convenience of increased frequencies to a variety of domestic and international connections, and supplement these increased frequencies with traffic feeds from Edmonton and other Alberta / Saskatchewan localities than set up YEG nonstop flights that would cause lower load factors out of YYC.

It's for this same reason that I'm forced to fly south to YYC to board a flight headed for Europe and have that flight cruise right over Edmonton several hours later. Although it would make more sense to have the flight originate in YYC, stop in YEG and then continue on to Europe, business travellers have expressed a strong preference for non-stop direct flights, and its all those executives flying out of YYC that contribute most to airline profitability. I guess we're stuck.

YEG 757


User currently offlineBoeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (14 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 873 times:

Tell me about it, YEG 757 - You couldn't have said it better from an Edmontonian's point of view!!

Mind you, AC did used to have flights originating in YYC and stopping in YEG on the way to LHR! But apparently, Cowtown businesspeople started whining, and such flights were cut from YEG as recently as '96! 

To AC183, your're right about YEG having only ONE flight to ORD a day! 


User currently offlineYwg777 From Canada, joined Oct 1999, 1264 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (14 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 868 times:

Are you sure 1 flight to ORD? I thought 2 my self. I thought that CP was doing a flight like that. I almsost thought I saw that on YEG'S flight schudule. Also I hear HP(Americia West ) is interested in flying up to YEG,YYC,YWG as well. The rumor is for this summer with a 320 to PHX. I have just heard that on the chat line here. Also DL would be a good airline back to YEG. When this major project gets done there will be plenty of room for them to move in. As for NWA is consirned also on this chat line people have been saying that NWA will start flying form Canada into DTW once the new terminal is built. Be expecting that as well as NWA adding flights to MSP this summer.
YWG777


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