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Would JetBlue Consider MHT Or PVD Instead Of Bos?  
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2755 times:

I understand that they are looking to add BOS to their route map, but do you think it would be more feasible for them to serve PVD and MHT instead? Question is, are they willing to butt heads with Southwest, who for the most part, already has the upper hand in these cities? Anyone have any idea as to what destinations jetBlue would serve out of BOS? Would they go head to head with US and DL shuttles to LGA and CO to EWR, and fly BOS-JFK? To me, that wouldn't make much sense. What do you think?

25 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2734 times:

Jetblue would be stupid to use BOS. Not only are all the gates taken, but BOS is very inconvient, PVD would be the best choice.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2723 times:

Nobody has considered BDL. Ofcourse it is close to NYC but with BOS having nearly flights every 20 minutes to NYC why would Jetblue need to go into that market. PVD isnt that much different from BDl when it comes to NYC traffic in the air. If you fly BDL-JFK 2X daily, you could use most of it for connecting traffic and some for O &D. If you use a fare structure like SYR or ROC you could be profitable on the O & D side. How about a couple BDL-FLL flights. BDL-South Florida is a huge market. How about BDL-SLC, there is demand for that. BDL-LGB, Hartford-Los Angeles market is big.



Eric


User currently offlineUsairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3463 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2720 times:

i highly doubt you would see BOS-JFK, i'd think they get killed on that route. Regarding BDL, one or 2 FLL flts could work, with maybe a LGB flt but thats about it. doesn't DLX have a good operation to Florida from BDL?

User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2717 times:

Delta Express flys:


BDL-MCO 4X daily
BDL-TPA 3X
BDL-FLL 3X
BDL-PBI 2X (Use to be 3X)



AA-

BDL-MIA 2X daily


Jet Blue could easily do another 2 FLL non stops and possibly PBI if it was ever added, also MCO.


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2713 times:

If possible that will might complete against of DLX there as for by third flight roundtrip nonstop from FLL-BDL, too. And also, that SWA will be weekend only with 1 roundtrip nonstop to BDL flight. It will be start goes on January 18, 2003. It's will be perfect flight as for the more passengers were goes to Hartford, CT trip. If they are currently as for this one with flight to BDL. I knew that about Metrojet were use on the route to BDL before were got shutdown and go to bye bye with Metrojet.  Sad

User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2690 times:

PVD being the logical choice over MHT? I don't see any overwhelming advantage that PVD has over MHT...except for maybe a head start in growth. Indeed, Manchester has 9,250' feet of new concrete coming on-line next year, new gates, more parking, and a new access road. All of these projects are beyond the 'talking' stage and are in various stages of completion/progress now. What PVD does have is perhaps a larger population within, say, 50 miles of the airport. But there are many factors that an airline uses to decide between cities. One thing we don't know, for example, is how the respective airports are 'courting' JetBlue. They may be willing to waive landing fees for any transcon flights the carrier may initiate, which I think would be a great bit of inducement!

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2684 times:

No. I have talked with a senior Massport official about JetBlue, and I was told that the only reason you don't see JetBlue planes flying into BOS currently is the lack of terminal space (every gate is occupied). Should an airline fold or something, then we won't see B6 in BOS until 2005. As for MHT, not going to happen until 2004 at the earliest with no space available until the C renovation is done. I still think it will be BOS, and with the current airline environment, it might be sooner than later.

Jeff


User currently offlineAFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 26
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Hello,

FWIW, here's a quote of the June 2001 edition of Air Transport World (ATW):

"We'd love to be in [Ronald Reagan] Washington National and Boston but we must do what works; 35-min. taxi times don't". Dave Barger, President and COO jetBlue Airways


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Michael Carter



Best regards,
Alain Mengus
ATB - American Airlines to Asia




User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4707 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2665 times:

You folks up in NH need to get a clue when it comes to exactly what a runway does for an airport. SNA, LGA and DCA do just fine with their tiny runways. I do not want to sound biased towards PVD, since in reality DAB is now my home airport that i follow the most. I asked this very question when one of Jet Blues execs were down here at my school last year. I phrased it with no mention of any other airport...simply an alternative to Boston..... the only airport in his response was in fact PVD. he did go on to add that SW had more of a market share than their liking, and their share at MHT is even larger of a percentage than here at PVD. I think they will still go to BOS because that is what they want. MHT just needs to remeber.....the mountais are not that populus and the entire city of Boston is NOT going to drive up to MHT. Manchester is reaching what is refered to as the "leveling off" stage of the Southwest effect, you just do not realize that.


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

I agree that MHT would be out of the question for most BOS area residents. It's simply too far north for those living south and east of Boston (but still within the 495 belt -- such as myself).

Providence would be a much better to option to capitalize on.

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2634 times:

The gap between the number of Southwest flights at MHT versus the number at PVD is shrinking, and will continue so in 2003. I don't call that 'leveling off' and forgive us if we guess that maybe your 'PVD bias' is causing you to see things that way when the numbers say otherwise. For both MHT and PVD the growth numbers will be anemic, but in the black for 2002. 2003 is the key year & we'll see 'who does what' then.

User currently offlineTbonecapalbo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2604 times:

Why is it that most low-fare carriers don't do well, or don't serve BOS at all?

User currently onlineJBLUA320 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 3179 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2600 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

jetBlue can do better then head on competition with shuttle routes.

I would not be surprised to see this take the back burner..

What happened to MKE?

JBLU


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 2590 times:

Not yet for the new route from JFK-MKE flight by anytime for near of the future. Well, we're see what is happened for the next?!? Well, later!!

User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 2573 times:

I know MHT currently has 11 gates right? Well they're only adding room for about 4 more gates, and I think as the gate situation is quite tight in MHT, the airlines currently serving MHT will take those new gates (WN will probably take 'em). As for BDL, it would be a good idea, but only after the new terminal is finished, because BDL's current facilities are overutilized and old, BDL will be really nice when the new terminal is up though.

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2554 times:

PVD has 21 jet gates now, correct?

User currently offlineAfitch7881 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 816 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

Bradley will have 1 gate open in the new concourse once it opens in January hopefully. Delta will be getting 5 gates while AA will be getting 6. The 12th gate could possibly go to jet Blue if they wanted it, or if AA or DL hasnt got it yet.

If Jetblue did go to BDL, you could still draw some pax from Boston, but it would mostly be just for the Hartford/Springfield and CT areas. I could see Jetblue doing good at BDL but I doubt they will come.


BDL-JFK 2-3X daily
BDL-FLL 2X
BDL-LGB 1X
BDL-SLC ? Probably not


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2517 times:

Might to wait see what is happened for next with the nonstop from BDL flight soon. If Jetblue will be chance with the new nonstop from BDL to LGB, FLL, JFK, and probably into SLC flight, too. So if you have give me with the press release from Jetblue. Thanks!!!

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4707 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2501 times:

As for Jet Blue in New England....... BOS is their ultimate goal. After that...they would try to find a market that does not havea large SW dominance, which is why i think MHT is on the bottom of the list when comparing MHT PVD and BDL. Out of those 3 SW has the lowest share at BDL, however i feel that their proximity of JFK is a turn off. Granted LGB could work, but I dont see it in the near future. PVD as discussed before would be the primary BOS alternative, but i feel they will still try BOS.

One city I feel that many have overlooked is Portland Me. If they can make it work in BTV, then I most certainly think they could work it with 2x JFK-PWM. PWM may see Jet Blue before PVD BDL or MHT.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4149 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 2492 times:

keep in mind that market share goes up when others fall by the wayside. So while PVD may 'think' that Southwest's market share there is not that high, it sure as hell will be (for MHT, too) if USAirways exists the building. But the pie at PVD has more slices than at MHT; we have fewer airlines and hence Southwest looms much more dominant. I think if that becomes a roadblock for JetBlue here, then so be it. Southwest will certainly open up the markets that B6 might otherwise try.

As for Portland, they have a runway that is (I believe) barely 6,000 feet in length. And with ocean fog and such, I'm not sure whether it's CAT III. In the end, I'm sure JetBlue has some critieria in terms of gates, runways, ILS, etc. for an airport to be a viable candidate. As much as PWM might 'make sense,' the factors that may keep them out of the mix are things they have no control over (esp. if JetBlue requires min. 7,000 feet). I'm not sure that is the case (what is BTV anyway?), but I'm saying that the carrier may have these requirements.


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 2471 times:

The main jet runway at PWM is 6,800 feet. Quite short. Alternate runway is only 5,000 feet.

User currently offlineFrequentflier From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 2431 times:

I don't see JetBlue serving either BOS or BDL in the near future. Service from BOS-NYC is pretty much exclusively business, and JFK is not an ideal location for a shuttle service to be run from. Also, BDL to JFK is most certainly not a profitable O&D route, and there would need to be nonstop, not connecting, flights to FL from BDL for JetBlue to do well there.

As for Delta Express at BDL, if JetBlue launched service to FLL, DLX would be blown out of the water just like at JFK.


User currently offlineGD727 From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 925 posts, RR: 10
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2413 times:

John: PVD has 22 gates. Also, although PWM's runway is only 6,800 feet, that is plenty long enough, hell, SNA's main runway is only 5,700 feet!

-GD727



Mmmm forbidden donut.
User currently offlineAfay1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2394 times:

As for the "folks in the mountains" comment, that is just plain silly. Driving time from metro-Boston during times of high traffic, which given the current situation, is always, makes Manchester, which is not even in any mountains, closer than PVD or BDL. Yes, it would be driving north to fly south, but if one is in a car, the drive is much easier. Obviously BOS would be more convenient, but if it is not to be, then MHT is more convenient. I challenge anyone, at 8:30am or 4pm on a weekday to make it to PVD or BDL in dramatically less time than MHT. Just watch out for the bears, wolves, mountains of snow, and whatever else you can imagine New Hampshire having.

User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8912 posts, RR: 12
Reply 25, posted (12 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2387 times:

Didn't even think of PWM. I personally think that JetBlue could do well there, it is far enough away from BOS and MHT to be competing with them, and if B6 can make BTV work with all 500000 people in the state of Vermont, then PWM should work. There is minimal competition on mainline equipment, like BTV (DL has 4 daily MD-88s, NW 2 daily DC-9s, US Airways 5 733s daily, which equates to 10 mainline flights daily (BTV has 8, 6 on U, 2 on UA; doesn't count B6). All-in-all, PWM has slightly more capacity now than BTV, but there is a much larger region. I could see 2 JFK flights working immediately, and maybe adding a FLL flight when that operation grows.

As for MHT v. PVD, each have their own pros and cons. I would always go MHT over PVD, as MHT is a 40 minute drive for me while PVD is 100 minutes. But, if you lived on the South Shore, the polar opposite is true. Each airport has their advantages and disadvantages. MHT is much better suited for ski charters, while PVD already has had Air Luxor A330s during the summer. While I don't think MHT will become the next SFB to the extent SFB is currently (whenever I am at Disney, it seems like 10% of the families there are British), I could see a few years down the line maybe a charter 757 for skiing during the winter. MHT will not become SFB though, with 767s, A330s, and 747s not being frequent visitors to MHT in the future.

Yes, JetBlue will be in the Boston market by 2005, it is all contingent on several factors. The first is how the industry plays out in the next 3 years. In three years, US, UA, AA (amongst others) might not even be around, or will/might be severly down-sized. This may be the opportunity to B6 to enter BOS. If not, they should be there in 2005 when the new Delta terminal opens up, freeing (tentatively) the pier on Terminal C they currently occupy (I still think they may keep some gates there though..., since 22 might not be enough from DL, SkyTeam, and Northwest/Continental, contingent on the codeshare goes through.)

Jeff


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