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Boeing 717  
User currently offlineAA737-800 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 1010 times:

Will the Boeing 717 last? Or, will it just be a failure and Airbus gains more market share?

12 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineUAL-Fan From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 374 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 832 times:

I think it will do well. It is an awesome plane and I can't wait to take my first ride on one. I have a friend who flies Airtran between Dallas and Atlanta several times a month who tells me it's a very powerful, quiet and comfortable aircraft.

User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 805 times:

I saw the TWA 717 lift off from DFW this morning - man that baby has got some power. It rocketed out!!


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineCritter From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 267 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 806 times:

No doubt about it!

This a/c will be around for a very long time. In fact when the Airbus trash is flown to its final resting place they will fly them home on a Boeing or Douglas. This is a great a/c and I am privlaged to get to work on it every day.......... Well ok I get to look at it because it doesn't break very often. And ohhhhhh what power and grace it has as it lifts off the ground. All of this at only a whisper. There will undoubtably be many more orders being placed within the next few months.


User currently offlineSv11 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 161 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 798 times:

Hope they launch a bigger version to carry as much as an MD-80. It looks like there is a bigger market for 130-150 seat planes, rather than 100 seaters. Does the 717 offer significant commonality with the DC-9/MD-80? If it is stretched will it be a good MD-80 replacement?

sv11


User currently offlineJr From United States of America, joined May 1999, 968 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 792 times:

Will boeing really want to stretch the 717 (I know they are considering it). If they do that wont they be competing against their own 737 or am I missing some thing here ...


I've flown on 9V-SPK.
User currently offlineDc9fixer From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 791 times:

Hello,
I think the 717 will last because:
1. Cheaper than a 318
2. Flying right now
3. awesome family history dc-9 md-80
4. not an md-90 or md -11
5. it really is a good airplane
I think this will be a good year for the 717 if Boeing gets their act together


sv11, the commonality with the md-80 is really in configuration only the cockpit
is like an md-11 BUT that being said it could shrink or stretch very easily
I think that will happen soon.


User currently offlineFlying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 7, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 787 times:

Hi all!

To my knowledge Boeing currently considers a shrink and a stretch of the Boeing 717-200. The shorteer one, called 717-100 is supposed to carry around 70 passengers, the bigger one called 717-300 120-130 passengers. I don´t know if this idea is thus clever because of several reasons. First the 717-300 reasons:

1. Very long then, tube effect.

2. Too much competition, in this area are the very succesful A319, the B737-300, the B737-700 and the B737-600. Already today the 717-200 and the 737-600 competing hard for every 100-seater order which means inner-Boeing competition and pressure on the prices. Quite bad.


The 717-100:

1. From the technical side no problems I think.

2. Extremly hard competition in this market segment. Including the 711 are the CRJ700, the 728JET, the ERJ-170 and the Avro RJ70 as 70-seating jets. While the RJ70 isn´t worth to be counted because of only about 10 orders in ist whole lifetime the CRJ700, 728JET and ERJ-170 have grabbed a lot of very interesting customers i.e. Lufthansa, Crossair, American Eagle, Horizon Air which are all out as potential 717 customers now. BTW, has anyone heard something about upcoming regional orders?

3. The 711 should be heavier as the new-generation RJs are. This means increasing the airport fees and uplifting the direct operating costs.

Conclusion: To me seems as if the 717 programm wasn´t a very well idea. Although it might get some more customers existing regional carriers will rather go for the other regional jets and mainlines, here American Airlines might be named, won´t buy it because of their cost structure. If they introduce this type in all three possible versions the mainline pilot salaries have to be paid which are usually a lot higher then regiojet pilot´s.

Regards
Flying-Tiger



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineFlying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 782 times:

Hi all!

To my knowledge Boeing currently considers a shrink and a stretch of the Boeing 717-200. The shorteer one, called 717-100 is supposed to carry around 70 passengers, the bigger one called 717-300 120-130 passengers. I don´t know if this idea is thus clever because of several reasons. First the 717-300 reasons:

1. Very long then, tube effect.

2. Too much competition, in this area are the very succesful A319, the B737-300, the B737-700 and the B737-600. Already today the 717-200 and the 737-600 competing hard for every 100-seater order which means inner-Boeing competition and pressure on the prices. Quite bad.


The 717-100:

1. From the technical side no problems I think.

2. Extremly hard competition in this market segment. Including the 711 are the CRJ700, the 728JET, the ERJ-170 and the Avro RJ70 as 70-seating jets. While the RJ70 isn´t worth to be counted because of only about 10 orders in ist whole lifetime the CRJ700, 728JET and ERJ-170 have grabbed a lot of very interesting customers i.e. Lufthansa, Crossair, American Eagle, Horizon Air which are all out as potential 717 customers now. BTW, has anyone heard something about upcoming regional orders?

3. The 711 should be heavier as the new-generation RJs are. This means increasing the airport fees and uplifting the direct operating costs.

Conclusion: To me seems as if the 717 programm wasn´t a very well idea. Although it might get some more customers existing regional carriers will rather go for the other regional jets and mainlines, here American Airlines might be named, won´t buy it because of their cost structure. If they introduce this type in all three possible versions the mainline pilot salaries have to be paid which are usually a lot higher then regiojet pilot´s.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineAA737-800 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 779 times:

Flying tiger, isnt the fuselage the same as an MD-80? That airplane hasnt generated many complaints because of tube-like aircraft. I think a stretch would do just fine.

User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 770 times:

This plane will be hit with Boeing, many operators who have aging DC-9s will want to purchase this advanced version. A stretched 717 is a terrific idea as a replacement for the DC-9 series 30 & 40.

User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11275 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (14 years 6 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 768 times:

The 717 does not truly compete against the 736 and the 318 (although the latter two compete with each other.) Let me make a simple analogy.

You've got two wagons that hold two kids each. One is made of plywood and nails, the other is made of steel and concrete. So, you're tugging your two kids in the wagon through the neighborhood. Which wagon do you choose? The answer is: it depends.

It depends on how far you want to go. If you're just going up and down the street, then coming home, you want to take the lighter wooden wagon so you exert less energy. But, if you're planning on going on a picnic and you're dragging the wagon to a park a mile away, you'll want the heavier steel wagon that can support the kids, their lunches, etc. because the wooden one can't support everything.

This is almost exactly what is going on with 717 vs. 318/736 (and also 739/321 vs 757). They may have similar capacities, but the former is much much lighter than the latter. This is important because if you're only doing short trips, you don't want to lug all that support for fuel, lavatories, galleys, etc. when you're never going to need it. The 318 and 736 (by virtue of being shrink designs) have much heavier takeoff weights and structural support allowing them to carry much more fuel and fly transcontinentally (in the US) while the 717 cannot.

So you see, the three jets serve two different missions. If you're doing short flights, the 717 kicks the 318 and 736's collective arse. But of course, if you're doing long flights, a 717 won't cut it, and you'll need the 736/318.



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User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8507 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (14 years 6 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 735 times:

There are really no direct competitors for the 717 today. The Fokker 100 sold fairly well and the airlines that fly the type are very pleased with them. But if you accidently sideswiped the terminal with the wing, the aircraft would have to be taken apart for spares because no on makes new Fokker wings anymore. I don't see why AA might not sell their Fokker 100s and buy 717s.

Personally, I think that the market for the 717-300 is much better than that for the -100. The seat-mile costs would fall even lower. I don't really see the 736 or A318 as competitors for it. Plus, while Delta's pilots are paid more than Comair's, for example, if in the future they both operated aircraft of the same size, Delta would be able to price their seats higher simply because they're a major airline, not some regional. So I think that ought to offset the higher pilot costs of the 717 vs. regional airplanes.


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