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LH To Start Frankfurt - Portland/PDX Nonstop  
User currently offlineD-AIFB From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 121 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

LH is going to start up a daily FRA - Portland PDX nonstop service with A343. Flights will begin end of March / early April 2003.

LH 468 FRA PDX 1030 1155 A343
LH 469 PDX FRA 1345 0855+1 A343


Congratulations to Portland!


66 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5278 times:


Amazing. I thought they'd start service to Seattle but ok, we'll see how the Portland service turns out.

All the best to Lufthansa.


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 5254 times:

First flight will be Monday, March 31st, 2003 according to the Computer Reservation Systems (CRS).

this is good news for both LH and PDX, I hope this flight will do well

SailorOrion


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3153 posts, RR: 51
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5202 times:
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I guess the reasoning was better to be the first European carrier in PDX than the fourth in SEA.

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Fly-K,

This is great to hear for LH were start opreate new nonstop from FRA-PDX by first-ever. And let's see how is they were doing for the new flight out of FRA to PDX. How much with the cities were serving by LH nonstop from FRA to MIA, ATL, DFW, IAH, IAD, JFK, BOS, ORD, DTW, PHX, DEN, LAX, EWR and SFO, too. Now, for the this addition by PDX with the 14th cities into USA. So anyway, I'd will talk with you again soon!!

Kind Regards,

Scott W.


User currently offlineRabenschlag From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 1007 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 5154 times:

hey, i think LH is working on to become the best example for the idea that hub'n'spoke is not the strategy of the future of air transport.

i wonder how long they will do these nice point to point things across the pond with thirsty fourholers...

dont they need 777's to do the job best?

and what are the A380's good for if that's the strategy?

thats off topic anyways...

cheers, r.



User currently offlineFlying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4161 posts, RR: 36
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5131 times:

Actually you´re off the track Rabenschlag. Do you think that a FRA-PDX service would be feasible without FRA being LH´s main hub? I seriously doubt it as the local traffic from FRA is just too small for this destination and basically all long-hauls rely on feeder/conncetion traffic.

Lufthansa has choosen the A340/B747 combo for Atlantic ops as it serves them best - and in future we will see the A333s join in, too. I really don´t see how the B777 fits into this scheme - their job is don by the A340-300s and soon the A340-600s.

The A380s are destined for routes such as FRA-NRT, FRA-HKG, FRA-SIN, FRA-JFK, FRA-LAX, FRA-SFO, FRA-MEX, all the big ones where LH has already capacity problems today.

Anyway - quite a clever choice on LH´s side, they are the first european carrier to serve PDX which should add a bonus onboth sides: additional paxfrom PDX fed into LH´s Europe network and european passangers flying with LH because it is the fastest way to get to PDX.

Regards
Flying-Tiger
http://fly.to/rorders



Flown: A319/320/321,A332/3,A380,AT4,AT7,B732/3/4/5/7/8,B742/4,B762/763,B772,CR2,CR7,ER4,E70,E75,F50/70,M11,L15,S20
User currently offlineDesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7780 posts, RR: 16
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5118 times:

I find PDX to be an additional choice... especially when PHX is not back at a daily frequency yet. There really must be some pent up demand in the Pacific Northwest for service. Also I wonder if the UAX Brasilias into PDX from the smaller cities in Oregon and Washington will be codeshared with LH. Certainly it couldn't hurt.


Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5063 times:

This is great news for PDX, though I would've loved to see a LH 340 here at SeaTac. I wonder about the local feed though. While UA has a significant presence (#2 carrier, barely beating out WN), to date it's almost all O&D for them. Because of AS's relationship with NW (and to a lesser extent AA/BA), all of their feed is geared towards SEA and the flight on NW to AMS (and again, to a lesser extent, LHR on BA). I'm wondering/guessing that there is a large local O&D market to Europe in the general PDX area.

Whatever the case, I'm sure LH has done their homework. Good luck to them and PDX International!

Duane



"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineAirsicknessbag From Germany, joined Aug 2000, 4723 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

When I saw a certain Miles&More promotion campaign last week, I knew it wouldn´t be SEA:

Double miles on CPH-SEA flights - this means LH is quite comfortable with SAS being the Europe-SEA airline.

Daniel Smile


User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5026 times:


Is it correct, that LH will most likely make it's money on this flight in business class and to a lesser extent in economy ?
I can't image that too many German tourists will fly to PDX when SFO and YVR are rather "close".
Any opinions ?

Regards,
B737-700


User currently offlineFly-K From Germany, joined May 2000, 3153 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5003 times:
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I heard PDX has an excellent cargo potential - see the cargo flights of Korean and Air China. Probably also DaimlerChrysler will be delighted (Freightliner).

Konstantin



Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been...
User currently offlineSearpqx From Netherlands, joined Jun 2000, 4344 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 4975 times:

Ahhh, I'd forgotten all about Freightliner. And yes cargo is a biggie. It's big at all the west coast cities, and SEA is about maxed out for cargo space. This makes more and more sense all the time.


"The two most common elements in the universe are Hydrogen and stupidity"
User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4916 times:

Hey Guys,

I do forgot as for the one more cities is PHL with the 15th US cities by nonstop from FRA, too. There it is with the destination cities is: ATL, BOS, DEN, DTW, DFW, EWR, IAD, IAH, LAX, MIA, ORD, PDX, PHL, PHX, and SFO, too. So that is it as for the new nonstop flight into PDX with Airbus A340. I'm giving it up with the whole US cities were nonstop flight out of FRA to the 15th US cities. Isn't that is something was great to hear for the new routes. Let's see how is they were doing by early April 2003. Well, later!!!

Regards,

Scott W.


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4836 times:

Anyone taking odds to see how long this one will last? I'll give it 6 months.

User currently offlineDeltaSFO From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2488 posts, RR: 22
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4819 times:

There actually exists quite a large expatriate German community in Greater Portland and southwestern Washington. Large enough to support a daily A340? We will see.

Delta is bidding on the ground handling contract.



It's a new day. Every moment matters. Now, more than ever.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4808 times:

PDX has been without any international service at all since Delta moved its' flights to Japan to LAX. It really has been too long for PDX to be without any nonstop service to Europe. I think that if LH is successful on this route, another European carrier will probably start service there as well, my guess is Virgin Atlantic or British Airways, maybe not a daily service but maybe as a 3X or 4X service. Although PDX is close enough to SEA and SFO in terms of international airports, they are far enough for both to perhaps provide quality feeds for pax and cargo.

User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4786 times:

is the city offering anything? i know the mayors office hsa said it would "work towards" convinceing international carriers to come to PDX after delta pulled out their international ops. At any rate, I'm happy.

GO PDX

Doug



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

If LH fills up the cargo hold and about 80% of the C class seats, the flight is usually profitable. And considering the PDX is quite a big cargo airport and there is quite some business there, I think the flight will work out well.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4744 times:

There actually exists quite a large expatriate German community in Greater Portland and southwestern Washington.

Expatriates? Paging David Beebe to the white courtesy phone.... Big grin


User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 15
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4650 times:

hey, i think LH is working on to become the best example for the idea that hub'n'spoke is not the strategy of the future of air transport.

That would mean LH would have to start this flight from DUS, HAM, TXL, LEJ,... and not from FRA (or MUC). There will always be a large hub on one side of a longhaul with maybe a few exceptions (DUS-EWR) but they will always have a hard life like TXL-IAD had until it got killed by 9/11.

Max


User currently offlineTrvlr From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 4430 posts, RR: 21
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4636 times:

Congratulations to PDX! Luckily, this airport benefits the most from the original contention cities (SEA, PDX, SAN, STL, MSP, etc) due to its current lack of transatlantic service.

I am fairly confident this will be a profitable flight for LH. I hope to see them in SAN sometime in the next few years!

Aaron G.


User currently offlineMia777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2002, 1165 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 4622 times:

I don't really undetstand the point of this flight. Regardless of how "big" the German population in Portland is, are all the seats really going to fill up? It just seems like such an odd flight. Plus...if someone from Portland would rather go to say....TLV on ElAl...wouldn't they rather connect in an American city...JFK?? Flipping it around...what German would want to go to Portland. That flight cannot sell out regardless of how many Germans are in Portland....just my thoughts....

MIA777



MIA777
User currently offlineKohflot From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4569 times:

I agree.. I'd be surprised to see LH's FRA-PDX last more than 6 months to a year. What Boeing or Airbus need to develop is an aircraft that can carry 150 people on two engines about 6500 miles. Then we'd see these long/thin routes last..

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4562 times:

I've heard the city made some sort of guarantee with them. If the flight doesn't meet expectations, the city pays Lufthansa.

I'm undecided whether the route will do well or not. I think it might have a chance after rethinking it. After all, Portland does have 2.4 million people and this will be there only connection to Europe.

If it doesn't do too well, then maybe a downgrade such as a reduction in frequency will be necessary. Then hopefully it will succeed.

I wish the route the best of luck.

Portland is an interesting city, and a gateway to one of the most beautiful coast lines in the world, the amazing Oregon Coast.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
25 Ctbarnes : Go figure... Naturally I'm a little disappointed LH didn't choose SEA, but then I'm prejudiced. Probably had something to do with SK's SEA-CPH flight,
26 Boeing in pdx : PDX INS problems have been sorted out for over a year. no problems.
27 Alaskaairlines : Thats great to hear! Hope they do well with the new route! -Dmitry
28 Seb146 : It seems that PDX is the more logical choice for this route. There are fewer airlines around here, so the on-time performace should be good and BA, NW
29 N79969 : I wonder if this is a case of underutilized aircraft being put to work for an experiment. They might also be experimenting to see if they can poach a
30 Post contains links FATFlyer : Incentives have not been revealed yet but the media is reporting that previous discussion of incentives included: "Port officials have said they are w
31 B737-700 : N79969, your first statement is definitely not the case. Lufthansa is acquiring more and more aircrafts (even leasing them) because they are very sho
32 N79969 : I was thinking of a situation in which an aircraft is underutilized because of some scheduling aberration not because of actual fleet surplus. For exa
33 B737-700 : Ok, I see oyur point but I still don't think so as the flight is too long and it's a daily rotation.
34 Post contains images AA-STL : Hmmm....out of 10 people I wonder how many people would know what state Portland is in. I really think SEA would have been the best choice but, obviou
35 United777 : WOW this is suprising! Good to see a international airline going to PDX though. I think because Portland doesn't yet have a European airline or almost
36 N79969 : I am surprised as well. They must be dedicating 2 aircraft at least for a daily service. Either they really believe that this will pan out or PDX is p
37 Flashmeister : As a (new) Portlander, I'm sort of offended at the comments that the flight won't do well. Portland is a large city with lots of connections to German
38 MAH4546 : The flight will be a hit and likely do very well, IMO. P.S.-I cannot reveal my sources but I have heard that STL-LGW will go back to daily in the spri
39 ContinentalEWR : Not gonna work......unless there is a big German-based firm in Portland or a Portland-based firm in Germany that would provide the base for such a ser
40 AA-STL : My neighbor acted like it was something that hadnt been announced yet .....When I talked to him the first time he didnt mention it going back to daily
41 Boeing in pdx : Not one but two very large German firms have massive facilities in the PDX area plus Nike and Intel.
42 Post contains images BA : ContinentalEWR, I'm sure you know more about the PDX market than Lufthansa, right? You spent the past couple years evaluating the market and have made
43 BA : Seb146, Alaska Airlines has no plans to takeover PDX-DEN from Horizon. Alaska expressed several times that there are no plans for growth from PDX. All
44 KAL_LM : That is really good news, can't wait to see something other than 737 size aircraft coming through here...excepting KE, CV and now Air China (if that e
45 Rjnut : LH could also do some marketing with Horizon for feed..a code share would not be required , but they could market favorable and competitive 'thru' far
46 N79969 : I would not take offense at any of it if I lived in Portland. Even if PDX has two large German companies in the area, that is not enough to sustain a
47 Post contains links FATFlyer : The media is covering the incentives on this flight today. The Oregonian reports that LH is receiving free rent, landings and inspection station use,
48 DesertJets : COEwr: TUS-MXP would work... afterall Tucson has TWO Olive Gardens. How about this... Is there anybody up in Portland that can give us an idea about t
49 Doug_Or : DesertJets- I think that has been discused- Nike-based in Beaverton (western suburb) Freightliner- owned by Daimler-Crystler Addidas (head of US divsi
50 Flashmeister : Doug Or is right. This is less about PDX-German travel. It's about PDX-European travel. With LH's network at Frankfurt, PDX businesses will have one-s
51 Flashmeister : Doug Or is right. This is less about PDX-German travel. It's about PDX-European travel. With LH's network at Frankfurt, PDX businesses will have one-s
52 N79969 : Good point. I think cargo might be the key that pushes the flight into the black. How did PDX grow into such a cargo hub given its proximity to Seattl
53 Post contains images B747-437B : PDX INS problems have been sorted out for over a year. Yes, they stopped international arrivals about a year ago! So yeah, the problems got themselves
54 Stratofish : When I was in PDX in Sep. I read an article in a local newspaper (The Oregonian) about this. Oficials from PDX went to FRA in order to convince LH to
55 Avt007 : On my last trip FRA-YVR, the guy next to me was from PDX, on business travel for Caterpillar, or maybe Freightliner. He said he went to FRA several ti
56 Post contains images Continental : Service will probably be pulled in 3 months. Continental
57 Flashmeister : All that from a supreme market-and-industry view of a 15 year old. And they wonder why people say what they say 'bout A.net.
58 Chrisair : Hey DesertJets, I'm a little curious to know how Tucson has more big businesses than Portland...I live in Tucson, and I just moved down here from Port
59 Mia777 : The flight really works for smaller city connections. This way you can just fly from PDX to FRA, and then connect to the many, many cities FRA serves.
60 BA : He's being sarcastic Chrisair.........
61 Post contains images AA-STL : haha.....Chrisair, if it sounds that wacky then dont believe it
62 Kwbl : Thought I would chime in on my home airport. This is obviously great news for PDX and Oregon / SW Washington. For those who do not really know about P
63 Kevin : Well I wish the new route would do well, but of all the comments here, none of you stressed this point. Why is the flight daily? If I was the decision
64 Post contains images Dash8tech : Okay, at least three of you have mentioned that PDX has no international service... Is Canada not another country?!? Horizon and AC Jazz serve Vancouv
65 Doug_or : I would say it was probably daily or nothing. We basicly have hourly service to SFO, SEA, and LAX, in addition to flights to every hub (except US). If
66 Post contains images KAL_LM : As far as the cargo aspect of the flight, sure we're an hour away from the ocean, but the Columbia goes right past the city so that kills that idea. T
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