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AirTran To Lease 23 More 717s  
User currently offlineLindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3524 times:
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Here's some news from PRNewswire:

"AirTran Airways has signed an agreement with Boeing Capital Corporation to lease 23 additional 717-200 jetliners. All the airplanes are scheduled to be delivered by Boeing in 2003.
From its hub at Hartsfield Atlanta International Airport, AirTran Airways
provides 388 daily flights to 40 cities throughout the eastern United States.
The low-cost carrier was the launch customer of the 717 and is the largest
operator of the airplane. AirTran Airways has received 46 of the modern
twinjets to date and, by the end of 2003, will have one of the youngest fleets
in the world."

Full story at: http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/10-23-2002/0001826055&EDATE=

I'd guess these are mostly the ex-TWA/AA planes. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

Announced in the FL conference call, they will be 22 ex-TWA 712s, and one new one.

User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Good news - all the remaining TWA birds are with new operators....new orders are more likely now.
One thing is interesting: Of the 30 TWA-birds, 6 are with Qantaslink and 2 with Bangkok Air, makes 22 left. But Airtran will take 23. Has they converted 1 option or has Qantaslink returned 1 717?


User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3406 times:

This is excellent news, the 717 really is a nice plane to fly on

Jeremy


User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3409 times:

Ok, Lowfareair, you answered my question as I wrote it....
Thanks


User currently offlineLindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3396 times:
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Yeah, I'd guess that the elimination of most (if not all) the second-hand 717s on the market may have a positive effect on sales of 717s straight from the factory. Of course, Boeing could use some new customers as I don't think the current customers will take any large quantity of them in the near future...

Does this mean that Air Tran will dispose of all of its remaining DC-9s (19, I believe) in the next year, or will it use the new aircraft to expand ambitiously?


User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3381 times:

The DC9s will be retired by October 2003. they will have 14 at the end of this year. That means that there will be nine more aircraft in 2003, followed by another 8 aircraft in 2003 by JetConnect. I'm starting to go into my expanding too quickly hole, but hey, Leonard is one of the best CEOs out there from the looks of things.

User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

Good news for Boeing and AirTran! Still no news of a 2nd fleet type yet for FL, however. Since the MD-90 most likely WOULD have been the ideal plane for AirTran, but unfortunately no longer in production, it seems the 737-800/900 will end up being the most likely candidate, in order for them to extend their network to Denver and points west. I would think the 757 is too large for what they intend to do, at this point and time? I wonder if Boeing would ever consider improving the MD-90 and reopening the line, IF there were significant orders for it? Redesignate it the 717-300 or 400? This would certainly make the 717 line more appealing to potential customers?

User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3276 times:

Okay, if I did my math correctly, this makes a total of 83 717s for AirTran...61 first tier orders & 22 pre-owned airframes. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. Also the one "new" order should bring the 717 program total orders to 163, with 106 already delivered. Good news indeed for the mighty little 717.  Wink/being sarcastic Too bad certain shareholders won't be happy. Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineGr8slvrflt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 1599 posts, RR: 10
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3237 times:

I'm confused as well. To my understanding there are 53 firm orders and 47 options. Were the VuelaMex ships deducted from this or are they additonal orders? Are the TWA ships part of the original orders/options?

As for DC-9s, in my opinion they will be gone sooner rather than later, probably by June '03.


User currently offlineLMP737 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3219 times:

Good news for Boeing. Jets sitting out in the desert do not contribute to the bottom line. I'm curious as to the deal that Boeing offered to Air Tran. One would expect that it was a good one for Air Tran.



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

To my understanding there are 53 firm orders and 47 options.

Correct, but recently AirTran exercised options on another 7, making 60 firm.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

I wonder if Boeing would ever consider improving the MD-90 and reopening the line, IF there were significant orders for it? Redesignate it the 717-300 or 400? This would certainly make the 717 line more appealing to potential customers?

Boeing will not reinstate a model that will compete with one of it's existing models. The MD-90 would clearly compete with the 737-800.

Boeing would not want to see 737-800 orders suffer in favor of MD-90s.

The reason why Boeing discontinued the MD-80, MD-90, and MD-11 line in the first place was because it competed with Boeing models.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineTriple Seven From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 530 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3053 times:

Anything is a possibility. There may be a time when Boeing will be forced to produced a stretch 717 if carriers like AirTran decides to go Airbus. That is a real danger. Therefore don't rule out any possibilities. A stretch 717 is essentially a MD-80/90 re-incarnate.

- Triple Seven


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16820 posts, RR: 51
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Boeing will give Airtran a good deal on either 737-800s, 737-900s or a mix of the two (or three if you include the 737-700).

What the 717 program really needs is a large order from a major like NW.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineLowfareair From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2995 times:

Another board is saying that Boeing is bringing up the 713 again, as AirTran is getting stronger than ever, and when, not if, they look for a larger aircraft, the 737 and the A320 war may cause either a) AirTran to go with Airbus; or b) Boeing having to give deep discounts to FL to keep them from Airbus. A 713 would mean that Boeing wouldn't have to discount the aircraft too heavily and AirTran would get fleet commonality.

User currently offlineCloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2943 times:

From what I understand - Airtran is unlikely to go with Airbus because
it is heavily in debt and Boeing holds allot of this debt.

Airtran depends on Boeing for survival money in an emergency, and also depends on them for more favorable terms than other lenders give. Also, Boeing is less likely to reposess, etc. than other creditors because it has a stake in Airtran's survival.

This stake is that Airtran is more or less the sole reason the 717 line remains open. They have also been willing to take up birds other carrier's have gotten rid of - creating demand for new ones. Also, to be cynical, Airtran has had a role in the decline of Airbus customer USair.

The reason for the 717-300(I am going by other threads and new reports), is that most airlines that are interested in the 717 are interested in this version. Particularily the Chinese - as they have had allot of dealings with MD in the past. And this has the potential to be a huge market. Airtran's interest would just be a bonus.

The fly in the ointment is that Delta may not be pleased that Boieng and Airtran are joined at the hip.


User currently offlineAKelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2189 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Lowfareair:

Do you have a link to the board that is talking about the 713?

I would assume that a 717-300 would have a max passenger capacity similar to a DC-9-50/MD-87 of 139 passengers (vs. 115), with a range of around 2500 nm (vs 2000 for the HGW version of the 717-200). Uprated BR715s of at least 23,000 lbs thrust would be used.


User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Doesnt the 717 compete with the 737-600?

User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Boeing has been tossing around the 717-300 for a while. They're hesitant to launch it as it would compete with the 737-700 and draw orders away from them.

But at the same time, Boeing knows the 717-300 would be successful and would generate good revenue. Infact, a 717-300 would be even more successful than the 717-200.

The 717-100 is pretty much not going to happen period which Boeing was also tossing around for a while. For those of you who haven't figured it out yet, a 717-100 would be a shortened 717 with approximately 90 seats.

Also, if the 717-300 were to be built, it will supposidly be powered by BR720s which is just a higher thrust version of the BR715.

I'd like to see the 717-300, but that'll be up to Boeing. They'll have to decide whether they are willing to have a competitor to there own 737-700, or not.

Good thing about the 717-200 though is it does have some commonality with the Next Generation 737s. Maintenance wise, there 2 completely different aircraft. Avionics wise, the 717's controls are actually quite similar to 737NG controls. Only some training is required for a pilot to switch between the 2 aircraft. This was a smart move on Boeing's part. Even just a bit of commonality can help.

AirTran should find 737NGs to be a nice complement to there 717s.



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2905 times:

Doesn't the 717 compete with the 737-600?

Yes, they are both in the same capacity range. The 736 offers compatibility with the rest of the 737NG types while the 712 offers lower operational costs than the 736. Ironically, neither is selling well. Another irony: it was SAS that launched the 736 program after a close contest with the 712 (MD-95 at the time).

Aeromexico was recently touted as a potential 712 customer to replace their DC-9 fleet, but they chose the 73G instead (after being rumoured to have chosen the 736).



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineCFM-56 From Finland, joined Sep 2001, 239 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

Did you also know that SAS wanted Mc Donnell Douglas to build the 717?? or at that time it was named the MD-95. They even wanted to be launch customer and then suddenly they dropped out of it. And according to the latest Airliner World issue SAS is thinking about getting rid of the 736 because they think its too small airplane for them and not making profit! go figure



User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16245 posts, RR: 56
Reply 22, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2887 times:

While this latest 23-aircraft deal is good news, Boeing still needs a large marquee customer to commit to the aircraft to ensure its survival.


Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineAirblue From San Marino, joined May 2001, 1825 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2860 times:

I think if Boeing will make the B717/300, some airlines like NW or Alitalia or Finnair or Austrian (the last three bought some A319/320s but they still have many MDD-80s) could be potential costumers of the B717 family.





User currently offline717fan From Switzerland, joined Nov 2001, 2017 posts, RR: 6
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2842 times:

Perhaps Qantas should be interested in a 713 as well, as they are very pleased with the 712. (A possible 6 more are coming next year...just a rumour as of now).
IMO, for the next time we will see some smaller airlines like Montenegro Airl. etc. ordering the 717. BTW, Boeing was very happy with the 717 presentation at the ERAA in Salzburg. They have high hopes that some new european customers will take the 717....
Times for the 717 are not so bad at the moment....


25 Alaskaairlines : Glad to hear! AirTran seems to have a good hand on those 717's! -Dmitry
26 JAL : Just to prove that the 717 is a wonderful aircraft!
27 Greg : Boeing will not make a 717-300 considering the dismall profit projections of the -200 (it will never turn a profit for Boeing--just as the DC-9, MD-80
28 Post contains links Flying-Tiger : B717fan, then Boeing is lying to itself with the ERAA report. It was very clear that they were mainly talking to their suppliers and competitors rathe
29 Post contains links Srbmod : The 717s that were destined for VeulaMex and ended up with AirTran are owned by Pembroke Leasing. The breakdown of the lease agreement with Boeing Cap
30 717fan : Flying-Tiger, AY (Finnair) hasn't ordered any Embraer, or have I missed something? Do you mean AZ? Boeing stated this on several occasions (that the E
31 Post contains links and images Flying-Tiger : Upsss, sorry, must read AZ (Alitalia) has ordered the EMB170. Well, I said what I was told from various sources... let´s see in a few months who was
32 Post contains links Srbmod : OOPS!!! I didn't put the AJC link in correctly, here's the coorect link: http:///www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/delta/1002/24airtran.html
33 717fan : Flying-Tiger No, I don't see much potential in Europe. Perhaps some smaller airlines like Meridiana, Montenegro, Aebal (who is, by the way, happy with
34 Post contains links AKelley728 : The link that Srbmod posted doesn't currently work... here is the corect one: http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/business/delta/1002/24airtran.html
35 Srbmod : Sorry about the bad link, that's the last time I put in a link by hand; from now on, I'm cutting and pasting the link.
36 Boeingmd82 : On the 717-300 issue. In reality, the 717-300 would not compete with the 737 if it was still optimized for high frequency, short haul routes. The 737N
37 717fan : Interesting ist that Airtran have cancelled 9 of its outstanding 717 orders. They added 22 twa birds and 1 new 717 and cancelled 9??? But anyway its g
38 Lowfareair : 717fan: the 9 were supposed to be delivered next year. Either AirTran is deferring them, or they might have got a deal where they get a low price for
39 Cloudy : The 737NG is not all that bad on short, high frequency routes. The -700 and -800 are about the best one can get. It is only the 737-600 (and it's A318
40 Gr8slvrflt : This clears up some of the confusion: CHICAGO, Oct 24 (Reuters) - Boeing Co., the world's No. 1 jet maker, said on Thursday that AirTran Airways swapp
41 717fan : This leaves space for another carrier to take 9 airframes in 2003. Perhaps Qantaslink could take these....
42 L.1011 : The 717 has real potential with faithful and familiar DC-9/M80/M90 operators, like NW. It gives Boeing a selling point to airlines that would otherwis
43 FlyPNS1 : The problem with NW is that they are buying A319/A320 for their narrowbody fleet. So buying the 717 would create another fleet type. I expect that whe
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