Connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 923 posts, RR: 2 Posted (10 years 8 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1746 times:
After 30 years Tarom pulls out of Amsterdam
Tarom decided to suspended indefinitely OTP- AMS effectively Oct 26, 2002.
The airline recorded loses of US $ 8 Million on this route alone for the last 3 years.
The route will continue to be served twice daily by KLM.
Tarom is also pulling the plug to Dusseldorf (DUS) and Stuttgart (STR) from Bucharest / Timisoara on Oct 27, 2002
The resulted extra capacity will be redirected to Paris, Madrid, Brussels, Rome.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 1, posted (10 years 8 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 1668 times:
What a shame. AMS was the jumping-off point for the last scheduled trans Atlantic passenger 707 service, Tarom's OTP-AMS-ORD flight. That was in about 1993. Amsterdam to O'Hare on a scheduled European airline's 707 in the 90s - yeah baby. Nowadays you can only do it if you're mates with Big John.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Planenutz From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1267 posts, RR: 11 Reply 2, posted (10 years 8 months 16 hours ago) and read 1574 times:
Why did Tarom lose so much money on this route? If KLM is maintaining its schedule of 2x daily it seems odd. It would have made more sense for Tarom to negotiate a codehsare agreement with KLM to operate one of these two daily flights.
Connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 923 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (10 years 8 months 4 hours ago) and read 1497 times:
Tarom has been a Boeing customer since 1974, when it took delivery of its first 707.
until 90's Tarom was the only Eastern European airline to own and operate an American made wide body jet.
The last civil build Boeing 707-300C, a cargo/passenger (Combi) variant with a large cargo door fitted to the forward port fuselage was delivered to TAROM in 1979
So I would agree that it must have been a thrill flying this 11 years old aircraft in the 90's on the OTP- AMS - JFK route. It was like the "Orient Express" version of the air travel.
But that's history now.
It appears that in the 90's Rumanian and Dutch Civil Aviation Authorities signed an agreement that would allow Tarom and KLM each to operate an unlimited number of flights between Bucharest and Amsterdam provided that both airline would give a timely notice to the other with respect to any schedule alteration
So based on these facts honestly, I don't see KLM willing to code share on the route. Was a mistake on the Rumanian Civil Authority signing such a gullible agreement . . .?
Maybe . . . but they'll have to live with it and learn from mistakes!
Jwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 21 Reply 4, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 1458 times:
My first flight ever was with Tarom from Amsterdam. Though I can hardly remember anything about it (it was over 25 years ago and I was a lot smaller back than ) it's still sad to see them go.
Plane holland From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 431 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1431 times:
They could have survived this route, if own reservations systems would not have blocked seats from Amsterdam to OTP...
for example: great fares but could not be booked.. because they appeared to be full. If an airline wants to sell and make profit it has to open the classes they distribute fares for. If they don't they are diggin their own grave.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1420 times:
Plane Holland, I know I know. Some airlines don't know they're born. Olympic were bad for doing this as well. When I was a travel agent you would look in the system, sold out sold out sold out, wait list wait list wait list, call the consolidator, beg plead cajole, then a few days before departure the seat would clear (you're sweating by now cos the more reliable airlines are now genuinely sold out and you've promised the client they'll be able to travel) and a courier would bike a handwritten ticket to the airport ticket desk. Phew! Then the passenger would report back after the trip that the flight was half empty!
This was the standard procedure for passengers on Air Zaire, Olympic, Tarom, Aerolineas Argentinas, Egyptair. Absolute nightmare, especially the first three. Other airlines you'd think were chaos (this was early 90s) such as Aeroflot, PIA, Iranair, Varig, were a joy to work with.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
Connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 923 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 1342 times:
While I don’t deny your findings regarding the tedious booking process on Tarom flights it's hard to comprehend why would any airline try to close its own reservation and fly half empty when its tickets are cheaper than those of its competitors ? !
Besides Tarom never owned or operated a reservation system ! ! ! They always paid others for this service.
So to blame them for doing that would be a little unfair.
Thirdly, by comparison - not that far away from Amsterdam - Tarom's CDG station is booming as we speak. As a result two more weekly frequencies will be added to this route on Oct 27, 2002.
On the other hand sure we could always call in question the work-ethic of certain Tarom's employees in Amsterdam or elsewhere.
Reality is that Tarom as a small unaligned airline, would stand no chance trying to compete KLM / Wings on the route given that fore mentioned agreement. So I would side this time with Tarom's decision to move on and seek other lucrative markets. I think the airline profitability it's a much more important issue than loosing a route.
Tarom will continue to serve all the other major Western hubs including Zurich, on a code share with Swiss. The twice daily OTP-ZRH route are operated by Swiss with A321/320/319 aircraft.
Cedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, RR: 55 Reply 9, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1336 times:
I have no idea why Tarom, Olympic etc worked like this. I know they don't have their own CRS, the way it would happen is like this:
You could either book full fare with the airline direct on a route through Bucharest or Athens for the full IATA fare (ie LHR-otp-BEY for £1200 in Tarom economy, same as MEA and BA; or LHR-ath-SYD for £2900 in Olympic economy, same as QF and BA) which no-one on the planet in their right mind would do. Or you could book sensible prices (ie to BEY for £300 on Tarom or to SYD for £1000 on OA) through a consolidator ("bucket shop"), INVARIABLY owned by the London station manager's brother (INVARIABLY). The consolidator would stick you on their own waitlist and get the seats released from the airline (ie his brother), usually at the last minute, only when it was CLEARLY obvious to the station manager that the empty seats would not be filled by full Y fare paying punters (fat chance).
Oh yeah, I mentioned earlier that the worst airlines for this kind of pratting about were Tarom, Olympic and Air Zaire. I just remembered two more. One is Garuda (with their lovely 4 stops - FRA or ZRH or FCO, BAH, KHI, SIN or something - to Jakarta when their neighbours served London nonstop ie SQ, MH, TG) but the worst of all was PHILIPPINES.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
LJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4169 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (10 years 7 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 1295 times:
I don't see KLM willing to code share on the route. Was a mistake on the Rumanian Civil Authority signing such a gullible agreement . . .?
Tarom could have signed an agreement before KLM started its own flights to OTP. Moreover, KLM still has a codeshare deal with OK, with both OK and KLM having own flights. However, you just can't compete against a twice daily flight with three flights a week and their idea of daily nightstopping at AMS (as they did last year) isn't cheap.
Connector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 923 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1267 times:
As I said before, in many instances the employee's work - ethic could be called in question. I would surely put the blame with the airline management for failing to clean thoroughly their house in the early 90's and put an end to that nonsense old fashion pricing policies coupled with "consolidator freebees".
I bet that REGULARS never had trouble learning from their travel agents about "consolidators almost free pie". So they never had to bother with the full fare even at the risk of not flying out in a particular day. Did Tarom as an airline gained or benefited in anyway ? The answer is absolutely not and that's why they are finally pulling the plug. Was BA or KLM for that matter happy with Tarom selling tickets at a LCC level trough consolidators? No way. Will be KLM soon offering lower fares on the route ? I strongly doubt.
Personally I never heard or read about a KLM code share agreement being offered as an option for Tarom.
Maybe LJ could come up with some more details on that. Yes I would agree with you that tree weekly flights can't compete twice daily and that a code share agreement would have made more sense to both Tarom and KLM.
As for the existent KLM / OK code share agreement let's not forget that OK is a Sky Team member while RO is still unaligned.
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From Canada, joined May 2001, 923 posts, 
From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 7724 posts, 
From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1267 posts, 
From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, 
) it's still sad to see them go.
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