Aussie_ From Australia, joined Dec 2000, 1661 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (6 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 539 times:
Very interesting. Thanks Alain
One question: why are there no viable lo-cos in France. The one in existence, Air Lib Express is apprently on the verge of collapse. Is that because labour costs in France are too high???
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 20 Reply 2, posted (6 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 536 times:
Hello Aussie,
Well, I believe Air Lib Express is not an excellent example. The airline was not built from scratch like most low-cost airlines, but on the ashes of Air Lib -- a carrier that has been in troubles for a while. The result is that the airline has higher costs than what it should have to make money. Their inadapted MD-83 fleet is just one example. Although their situation is evolving quickly (they now want to separate the Express and long-haul operations so that investors can put their money in Express only) I have a small article on my website that should shed more light on the challenges they are faced with.
Back to your question; why aren't low-cost airlines performing well in France?
Well that's not entirely true. Buzz, easyJet and last but not least Ryanair have performed rather well on the French market. There are multiple points in France that can their traffic stimulated greatly thanks to price-incentive policies (what locos do). France is a rather interesting market too: it's a popular tourism destinations for Northern Europeans. Many British, in particular, own second houses in southern France. Many regions have invested a lot of the taxpayers' mney in maintaining airports that were well-equipped but didn't get more than 1-3 viable routes -- if any. The immediate result is that around 100 airfields all over France are trying to attract the low-cost carriers and believe me, the locos seize the situation to ask as much as they can -- sometimes too much in the opinion of the other airlines, like for Ryanair in Strasbourg (SXB).
But overall, the market is maybe not as active as are the UK or Germany for instance. I see two maion reasons:
1. Low-cost airlines are tapping into the traditional markets of charter airlines. And as we know, the charter business is much larger in the two aboved-mentioned countries than it is in France.
2. The extensive highway newtork and the TGV have been pressuring domestic fares for two decades. Air France already has a rather competitive pricing policy and makes a good share of its money on the domestic network thansk to the transfers at CDG.
Now, will the growing combat between regional airlines and low-cost carriers give more momentum to the latter ones in France? Time will tell. But low-cost airlines are well present in France, and one has to deal with them.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4597 posts, RR: 38 Reply 3, posted (6 years 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 527 times:
Thanks for your information Alain!
Really interesting for me to see how Buzz has developed a specialization for secondary French airports like Bergerac, Caen or Poitiers.
It really surprises me, how underdeveloped the LCC market from the Paris area still is. A popular, but much smaller holiday destination like NCE draws almost as much traffic as Paris!
AFa340-300E From France, joined May 1999, 2084 posts, RR: 20 Reply 4, posted (6 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 514 times:
Hello TriStar500,
Buzz is indeed flying to small cities. It has, however, pulled out of Rouen-London last summer IIRC. Bergerac is notorious for the number of English living in the region.
Isn't the airline on the verge of standardizing its fleet to 737s BTW?
There are indeed plenty of unused slots at ORY which were not up for grabs for some 'mysterious' reason... The airport's traffic has sharply dropped in the recent years, despite the investments made to refurbish the Orly Sud terminal. There's a fairly sizeable potential there.
That said I'm not sure there's such a huge potential for low-cost carriers in the Parisian region: there aren't too many small airfields that they could use and the region is extremly well linked to the rest of the country. There might be more opportunities on European routes, however.
TriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4597 posts, RR: 38 Reply 5, posted (6 years 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 512 times:
Alain,
Regarding a fleet standardization at Buzz, all I know is that most of the leases for their Bae's are running out within the next one and a half year. My speculation is an interim replacment with more second-hand 733's until a long-term solution has been found.
The need for such a solution will become important after the proposed merger of Buzz/Basiq Air/Transavia into a single KLM LCC has become reality.
Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
Donder10 From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 6649 posts, RR: 17 Reply 6, posted (6 years 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 462 times:
Alain,
Buzz are leasing some Channel Express 733s at the moment AFAIK.
Were the Buzz loads/yields to Rouen awful or was pulling out more to do with airport charges?
Random q:what is the length of the runway at Dieppe?
Cheers,Alex
Cba From United States, joined Jul 2000, 4299 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (6 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 410 times:
Lowfare carriers in France have not flourished for one reason: the TGV. On any domestic route, the TGV is just more cost effective. Take the Paris-Lyon route. No more than an hour's flying time, but when you count the drive to the airports, security, etc, the door to door travel time is in excess of 3 hours. The TGV is cheaper, and though the transit time is 2 hours, the train leaves from the middle of Paris and arrives in the middle of Lyon, hence less traveling time door to door. No security lines either.
SAS23 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (6 years 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 410 times:
I flew through BVA on FR this morning from PIK, returning this evening. The airport was absolutely packed and there were aircraft in from MyTravel Lite and Goodjet as well as FR. Clearly, the French market is welcoming the lo-co's with open arms ... but domestically, the competition from the TGV is too stiff to be viable perhaps?
BHXviscount From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2002, 164 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (6 years 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 413 times:
sas23, what are the bus rides to central paris like and how long does it take? have been interested in BHX-BVA with VZ(mytravel lite) but on learning that BVA is 77km from paris put me off somewhat
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