Jet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 787 times:
Just as I posted that I realised I had forgotten one!
TransAer of Ireland have several A320s and have just contracted to lease several more from GECAS, along with some 737-800s!!!
So the list is;
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4117 posts, RR: 37 Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 777 times:
South African Airways, which has some older A320s, is reported to be buying 737NGs. BWIA/West Indies used to operate 2 A321s for a half year in 96-97, and then decided to lease some 737NGs. But they never flew side by side with BWIA.
But BWIA, SAL and TransAer swap one type for the other, that can be logical, and they'll probably have two types together in the fleet only for a short time. But I don't understand a thing about SAS (which could have bought some more 738s or 739s and do the busiest routes with A332s or so) and TunisAir which could have bought the A318 and/or A319.
But maybe they couldn't agree about the pricing, so the airlines had to order the other type, not to loose face, give in and order the plane they thought to be too expensive.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
Sammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1686 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 770 times:
Jet Setter, is the TransAer lease for a short time? Is it just for extra summer capacity? I'm asking because I think with SAS and Tunis Air they are becoming a more permanent part of their fleets. Another "maybe" airline for this combination I hear is RAM...
Jet Setter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 7, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 774 times:
The TransAer 737-800s were ordered at the same time as more A320s. They will continue to fly A320s, however the 737-800 will also be a permanent part of the fleet - their 737NGs will be delivered new on long term leases.
However, TransAer operates many flights on behalf of other airlines like Cubana, Lybian Arab, Britannia, AOM etc. Maybe the 737NG is so they can offer to operate 737-800s for airlines that have that type (eg Britannia) and A320s for airlines having those (eg Transmeridian)
So if that's the case, they will be able to get more business by using both types and flying the 737NG and A320 side-by-side makes sense!
Flying-tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4111 posts, RR: 39 Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 767 times:
Main reason for the B737-600 and A319/320 combination: politics. They want to have good relations with both parts of the world so they did someting everyone can accept: ordered its aircrafts. The same with Egypt Air, here the A340-300/-600 and the B777-200.
Mirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3120 posts, RR: 16 Reply 11, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 753 times:
Well, it's your opinion. That's hipocrit when the land of freedom is expecting a Boeing order just because you help Israel. It's ok with me, I really don't care.
I just posted a simple fact and you are trying to get another fight with me, thanks.
KLM 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 742 times:
>>Well, it's your opinion. That's hipocrit when the land of freedom is expecting a Boeing order just because you help Israel. It's ok with me, I really don't care.
I just posted a simple fact and you are trying to get another fight with me, thanks.<<
It's not my opinion Mirage. El Al are not going to order the A330 and will take additional 767/777 as needed. I personally feel this is justified because the United States does not simply "help" Israel. Without the United States, there wouldn't be an Israel. The United States gives the Israeli government billions of dollars every year without need of repayment of any kind. They have also been on the receiving end of some of the most advanced American military equipment which many other nations have not been permitted to receive. The US turns a blind eye to Israel's possession of nuclear and chemical weapons while other countries are not permitted to have them,
What does Europe give Israel that can compare with all this?
By the way, it is the Israeli government which nixed the Airbus purchase. The US Government did not issue a decree to EL AL's board of directors.
I was not trying to get into a fight with you. I was just wondering why you think that this is so unfair. Maybe you could give a reasonable reply other that some half-assed attempt at cynicism that does nothing to hide your obvious distaste for the US.
Mirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3120 posts, RR: 16 Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 739 times:
"It's not my opinion Mirage. El Al are not going to order the A330 and will take additional 767/777 as needed. I personally feel this is justified because the United States does not simply "help" Israel."
First you say it's not your opinion, then you personally justify it, so it's your opinion.
El Al already ordered some A330's and you didn't show me facts saying this is not true, you just showed me your personal opinion. Everybody can have a personal opinion, even me.
BTW. I've no distaste for the US, sorry if you don't like to read what I post, ignore it.
Sammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1686 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 733 times:
Mirage, you should read what KLM777 posted a bit more carefully. He said its not his opinion that El Al are not going to buy Airbus, he claimed that as a fact. He did however express his opinion of whether it is fair or not. Two totally different things.
KLM 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 731 times:
Mirage, it makes no difference to me whether or not you "like" the US, but why try to hide your true feelings? What's the point in doing that? I know the kinds of attitudes you have from reading your posts so why do you have to cover that up by lying through your teeth?
From the ELAL website:
......"EL AL is renewing its fleet to the newest
Boeing 747-400, 767ER, 737-800 and
737-700 aircrafts. Since the begining of
1999 we have been receiving a new
aircraft almost every month!......"
It's common knowledge that Airbus has lost the Airbus order. Why can't you accept that? In the future, do your homework before you come on this forum and post your nationalist bollocks.
LH423 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 6501 posts, RR: 55 Reply 17, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 716 times:
I have to agree that KLM777 is correct. Number one, you have never hidden your Airbus favouritisms, and seems to have always taken an anti-American, anti-Boeing approach. Number two, have you not realized that the Boeing order has been confirmed for months now, but the Airbus order is constantly being put off, for "re-evaluation." They put it off, because they are unsure, of the Airbus product.
« On ne voit bien qu'avec le cœur. L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux » Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Mirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3120 posts, RR: 16 Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 720 times:
Number one: I know the Boeing order has been confirmed but I don't know if the Airbus order was cancelled, do you? I've no problem at all if it is cancelled, I don't receive any money for it.
Number two: IF I'm a pro Airbus, what's your problem with that? nobody tells me what I should like or not, you are free to like ice cream and I'm free to like whatever I want.
You guys seem to act as some dictators wanting that everybody agrees with you and when you read something you don't like, you get mad. If you don't like what you read you start calling "you're anti-american". Open your minds, the world is not all blue or red, it's a mix of everything.
So, you agree with KLM 777, congratulations that's 3 against 1 on the "We all against Mirage" club. LOL
Sammyk From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 1686 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 722 times:
Was it ever signed? Was it ever a firm order? How can you cancel something that was never ordered? Like others have said, it was always put off for further evaluation. Please provide an order announcement.....thanks.
P.S. I can care less which airframe manufacturer you like.
Magyar From Hungary, joined Feb 2000, 596 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 704 times:
I think KLM777 is absolutly right about El-Al, I do not think they will
ever order/have Airbus product.
As far as this "what is fair, and what is not" concerned, when
are you guys going to understand it, that this is NOT an
important issue in this Airbus-Boeing business. Both company
will do anything ( OK maybe not anything but a lot) to hurt
the other as long as they can get away with it. No matter
how low/dirty it is. They lie, fake statistics and present
things which is favourable to their image and hide
that which is not. And they use all their political leverage
They probable do not state false fact, but you can lie without
saying anything false. It is all in the presentation.
TP343 From Brazil, joined May 1999, 312 posts, RR: 5 Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 703 times:
I tryed not to participate here, but the number of bull**** is too high...
Some comments on KLM 777's comments:
"The US made Israel and is the biggest recipient of its foreign aid"
AID????? NO Country "AIDS" others. Countries DO HAVE things called INTEREST. Try learning some geopolitics before having this *lovely* *romantic* and *FALSE* vision of countries relationships. Israel is an interesting MILITARY PARTNER to the US. Nothing more than this. Or do you believe the US is seriously concerned about the peace, the cause of the people, etc? Give me a break, Mr. Netherlands!
"THe least they can do is order a few Boeings"
Boeing is a PRIVATE company; the US a State. By saying what you said you addmit Boeing is helped by the US Government; not with direct founds as people stat Airbus receive, but with a *very dirty* game of influences. And more: if you personally think Israel should retribuite the "aid", please do not EVER enter any church...
"Without the United States, there wouldn't be an Israel"
We should not forget that it was the UK (EUROPE) who gave the lands and the UN recognized the soverany. This is on the schoolar books...
"The US Government did not issue a decree to EL AL's board of directors."
LOL!!! The American secretary of state visited Israel twice (the first one was when El Al was near of announcing who was the winner - the B777 or the A330/340 - and the second was when the Israeli airline wanted to fit RR engines under the wings of the B777 and Ms. Albright said "the relations between the US and Israel could be severely affected if El Al chooses no-American engines" ) and spoke with Mr. Barak about the El Al order and you say that! Try reading some daily newspapers! They are good for (mental) health!
And about Mirage:
If Mirage is anti-American, you KLM 777 are CLEARLY anti-European! It's enough to read your previous posts, the language used on them and the "spirit" behind the words to get this conclusion! Everybody has one's own opinion. If you are totally American and Boeing driven, that's ok, but you don't have to right of being agressive and humiliating as you use to be. Tolerance and respect are concepts you should learn; not Mirage.
Smegma From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 689 times:
Listen, I understand your anti-American sentiment but there is a much better way to go about it than by making personal attacks and silly statments that simply aren't true. HINT: CHECK YOUR SILLY LITTLE "FACTS"!
Your theory of "geopolitics" (LOL) is pretty flawed. In your opinion aid is given only to countries if it is in the strategic interest of the US to do so. So why then is the US giving $4 billion dollars annually in aid to Israel? What is the strategic interest in supporting a country that has done nothing but destablize the Middle East and discredit the US prescence in that part of the world? Strictly speaking, Israel gives nothing to the US in return for its unwavering support and billions of dollars. It is the other countries in the region that have the oil that the US needs. According to your theory, Israel should receive no aid and yet it receives more than any other country on the planet.....
By the way, American humanitarian aid is in the tens of billions of dollars and millions of people around the globe have the US government to thank for being alive. This is purely humanitarian aid--there's nothing political about it. Where's the strategic interest in that? Who gave Brazil millions of dollars in 1998 to stop the devaluation of its currency?
>>>UK gave the lands and UN recognized the soverignity?<<<
Boy, you really don't know what you're talking about do you? The UK did not "give" the lands, it ceded them to UN control when it could not reconcile the dispute between the Arabs and Palestinians. When the Jewish people conquered the land by force, it was the United States that pushed through the UN resolution recognizing the State of Israel. It was the US who gave hundreds of tons of the most advanced weapons to the Israeli army and helped it whenever attacked by the other Arab nations. This is what is in the "scoolar" books, not your convoluted version of events. What is the UN anyway but a mouthpiece for the US?
Albright's visit to Israel had nothing at all to do with aircraft. It was a diplomatic mission where the EL AL order came up because it was in the news at that time. Do you really think the US Secretary of State would travel all that distance just for some lousy aircraft engines? Gimme a break!! I've said it before and I've said it again, I feel Israel does owe the United States a debt of gratitude for its many years of both political and financial support, and if that means buy American, then so be it. The European Union has given Israel next to nothing in comparison.
If you are a student of economics as you claim, then you should know that political and economic policy go hand in hand in democratic societies. When your president needs a regional jet, should I expect a fair competition between Embraer and Canadair/Bombardier? Didn't think so.
By the way, all of EL AL's 757's are Rolls-Royce powered. I guess US foreign policy was just had a really bad year right?
I shouldn't have wasted the time.
p.s. Your English could use a little work
If you get down off your anti-American high horse for a second, you might realize that the US does a lot of good in the world in addition to the bad.
Avion From Bouvet Island, joined May 1999, 2205 posts, RR: 8 Reply 24, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 676 times:
TP343 is right. Israel has a big military knowledge and that is what the us gets from israel in exchange. And the us has a influential jewish minority. Thats why israel gets huge financial aid from the US. There are other countries that would need more aid than israel. Israel is not poor in any way.
25 Smegma: The US needs Israeli military knowledge?!! The most militarily advanced country in the world needs Israeli technology? Cut the crap you know that cann
26 Avion: Israel gets the support because the US has a influential jewish minority. Many of the politicians are jewish and they want to help their country. And
27 Smegma: The fact that there is an influential Jewish minority is as irrelevant as it is obvious. There are actually very very few Jewish politicans in the US-
28 Sammyk: Janne, SAS, TunisAir, & TransAer Have a nice day folks! Sammy P.S. Theres nothing like redundancy!