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LH744 And Mexicana Airbus: Close To Collision  
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3436 times:

According to German online-news magazine Spiegel-online, a LH B744 with 388 people on board approaching Mexico City came to within 30 meters to an Airbus of Mexicana with 120 people on board. The crash was avoided because the LH pilot refused to follow the orders of Mexican inflight control and instead did what TCAS told him to do: he disengaged autopilot and pulled the aircraft up... the Airbus crossed his course about 30 meters below the B744.

Thank God...there were 500 people in both aircraft!

Andreas

link:http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,219712,00.html
sorry, it's German.


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

The incident happened on October, 7th, but was not reported until today. The Mexican authorities see no necessity to start an investigation, obviously 30 meters are not close enough.


I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineSabena332 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3334 times:

30 meters is very close, thanks God that the planes did not collide.

Patrick


User currently offlineSwake From Belgium, joined Jan 2001, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3324 times:

When did the incident take place? Whas the information confirmed? Der Spiegel seems a reliable source to me...

Could have been nasty if true... Remembers me somehow of Cedarjets post of yesterday or the day before!


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1807 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3319 times:

Wait...........believe me there will be an investigation........but it will be kept behind closed doors, so in order to keep reporters from asking further questions they give them the runarround.


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3312 times:

According to the source, LH confirmed the incident! Sorry I don't find an English source, the one I gave you is german!
Yes, I do think Spiegel online is reliable!



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3146 times:

I believe it is protocal for the Pilots to follow the TCAS anyways, especially since the horrors over Germany a few months ago. 30m is ridiculously close, in fact it is so close that I am surprised that the wakes didnt take one of the planes down

Jeremy


User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3123 times:

Wait a second, did the actual planes actually get within 30 metres of each other, or just their flightpaths? If it was "just" the flightpaths, then the incident may be *a bit* less serious than suggested...

User currently offlineRacko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4857 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3102 times:

Lufthansa wants an investigation to take place, they informed the BFU (German FAA) but the BFU told them that they were not informed by the Mexican authorities as it's common for this kind of incidents...

According to the Stern (German news mag), the A320 flew 30m under the plane, not just their flight paths.


User currently offlineSQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1453 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3090 times:

30meters sounds very close and like a wonder that nothing happened!
But is there any word about the lateral distance between both Aircrafts?
i miss something in this report!
Damn press everytime cries loud after a near miss and missleading public by saying not all details!


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

According to Spiegel Online, giving a LH spokesman as source, that the aircraft were 30 meters (approx. 100ft, or 35 yards) apart, not their flightpaths.
The LH spokesman, Michael Lamberty, said, that the pilot reacted according to LH regulations. In such a case the pilot is trained to give TCAS warning top priority. Seems like a pretty good regulation, keeping in mind there were over 500 people involved.



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineTrickijedi From United States of America, joined May 2001, 3266 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3036 times:

This happened on October 7???!!!  Wow!

And we're just now hearing about it???  Confused

Hmmm... I think someone's trying to hide something!  Pissed



Its better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than be in the air wishing you were on the ground. Fly safe!
User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6229 posts, RR: 11
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 3022 times:

Thank God a colllision between those two aircraft did not happen , it would have been a major catastrophe with over 500 deaths.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineRojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2476 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 2932 times:

And if you take a look at Mexico City you will see that the airport is surrounded by populated areas, so if this happened in the landing approach it will have been a major disaster both in the air and in land...

But our authorities are too lazy to do something about this issue...

Rojo


User currently offlineBR715-A1-30 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2854 times:

I Praise the LH Pilot for following his TCAS.  Smile I scorn Mexican Traffic Control for not doing their job.  Pissed What is he trying to do, Murder more people than Ted Bundy, and Jeffrey Dahmer combined.



User currently offlineAvObserver From United States of America, joined Apr 2002, 2472 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2772 times:

Thank God in Heaven near-catastrophe was averted that day! Bet we all still have nightmares about that horrendous twin 747 pileup in the Canary Islands back in 1977-beyond belief!

User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2760 times:

That story in a German magazine does sound very:

Gemany = hero
Mexico = Stupid

Will we see any more on this incident ??


User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5482 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 2699 times:

30 meters  Wow!. Just imagine what the pax with window seats were thinking when they saw another aircraft fullsize right next to them. It's amazing that nothing happened, this qualifies for a near near near miss.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineAerosol From Germany, joined Oct 2000, 559 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 2671 times:

Regs?
Anyone knows?


User currently offlinePlanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 2668 times:

This little blurb was posted in the Aviation Safety Network homepage:

24 OCT 2002 A Lufthansa Boeing 747-400 reportedly missed a Mexicana Airbus A.320 by some 30m while on approach to Mexico City Airport, October 7. The Lufthansa pilot ignored contrary orders from air traffic control and followed his TCAS RA to climb. (AFX)



User currently offlineDavid_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 2639 times:

Probably was because workload of the ATC Controller, how many people is on MEX working on the approach? I imagine their workload is incredibly tough since they have just two runways and one plane arriving every 30 sec's or something like that.

Thank God all went ok... as Rojo said if you have a look to MEX approach is surrounded by heavy populated areas, this would be a worse catastrophe than the Terenife one.


View Large View Medium
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Photo © Ricardo Morales Aviation Photography of Mexico



View Large View Medium
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Photo © Timon Kruisman



And, as always, our government did nothing, not even reported it. Lazy people who do nothing but spend our money.

David.


User currently offlineAndreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2559 times:

..are able to read German, but I can assure you, there was not a bit of German=hero and Mexican=stupid in it, as Spiegel Online does not belong in the yellow press basket. On the other hand SQ325 is completely right saying that it is nearly impossible to find out what really happened without knowing facts like what did ATC order the LH jet to do etc. The little report on the Aviation Safety Network homepage doesn't help either.
Maybe the whole thing would have gone unnoticed by media, if there had been no accident over Lake Constance a few months ago, with similar key words: TCAS, possible ATC error, many people in large aircraft...Well, you know how it works.
Regards and Greetings to Hongkong
Andreas



I know it's only VfB but I like it!
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 2531 times:

WOW! Thank God everything was OK.

-Dmitry


User currently offlineGhost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5225 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 2356 times:

To ALL,

I have many friends that work in the Aviation here in Mexico, a friend of mine Pilot from the A319/320 in MXA told me two days after this happen the 9th what happened, I was really impressed but I usually don't like to said about this things... a day later I call a ATC in charge of MEX_TWR (Jorge L....s), told me about what happened about this incident and if there was an ERROR by the ATC at that moment, there's going to be a SEVERE CALL, or a punishment like downgrading this ATC to another airport with lesssss traffic... Let me tell you APP at MEX during rush hours it's incredible, and the worst thing is that there's only one person handling all those traffics this is not like the US with N, S, W, E APPs., if you once fly to MEX, bring a scanner, tune 121.85 for MEX_APP, lot's of acfts, landing in two rwys only.... really a circus!

Believe me, there's going to be an Investigation, this is something serious for MX and LH, so it's better not to 'scare' the people in Mexico... flying to Germany or Mexicana....

ghost77  Smile



Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
User currently offlineAM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1784 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 22 hours ago) and read 2197 times:

Sure, but our authorities are a joke. They are too ashamed to make public that they just don't do their work properly. What where they trying to achieve by hiding this???? They thought they could get away with it. Yeah right. Whenever something goes wrong it is hidden rather than investigated. Does the DGAC(Mexican FAA) make serious and detailed reports? Do they make recomendations or modify regulations based on the conclusions of this reports? I seriously doubt it.

25 Lufthansa404 : Any update on this? No one that is with Lufthansa and knows some more? Thanks Jan
26 SR117 : Hey, I was just watching the news today (CNI for you mexican guys ; ) It seems that Mexican ATC and the SCT (the transport ministry) have done a pres
27 Post contains images Derico : I don't know about the security or training level in Mexican aviation, or the modernity of their equipment. But sincerely, I hope that people here are
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