Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31 Posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3329 times:
According to German online-news magazine Spiegel-online, a LH B744 with 388 people on board approaching Mexico City came to within 30 meters to an Airbus of Mexicana with 120 people on board. The crash was avoided because the LH pilot refused to follow the orders of Mexican inflight control and instead did what TCAS told him to do: he disengaged autopilot and pulled the aircraft up... the Airbus crossed his course about 30 meters below the B744.
Thank God...there were 500 people in both aircraft!
Artsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3039 times:
I believe it is protocal for the Pilots to follow the TCAS anyways, especially since the horrors over Germany a few months ago. 30m is ridiculously close, in fact it is so close that I am surprised that the wakes didnt take one of the planes down
Ikarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3016 times:
Wait a second, did the actual planes actually get within 30 metres of each other, or just their flightpaths? If it was "just" the flightpaths, then the incident may be *a bit* less serious than suggested...
Racko From Germany, joined Nov 2001, 4856 posts, RR: 20
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2995 times:
Lufthansa wants an investigation to take place, they informed the BFU (German FAA) but the BFU told them that they were not informed by the Mexican authorities as it's common for this kind of incidents...
According to the Stern (German news mag), the A320 flew 30m under the plane, not just their flight paths.
SQ325 From Germany, joined Jul 2001, 1451 posts, RR: 7
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2983 times:
30meters sounds very close and like a wonder that nothing happened!
But is there any word about the lateral distance between both Aircrafts?
i miss something in this report!
Damn press everytime cries loud after a near miss and missleading public by saying not all details!
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2968 times:
According to Spiegel Online, giving a LH spokesman as source, that the aircraft were 30 meters (approx. 100ft, or 35 yards) apart, not their flightpaths.
The LH spokesman, Michael Lamberty, said, that the pilot reacted according to LH regulations. In such a case the pilot is trained to give TCAS warning top priority. Seems like a pretty good regulation, keeping in mind there were over 500 people involved.
Rojo From Spain, joined Sep 2000, 2443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2825 times:
And if you take a look at Mexico City you will see that the airport is surrounded by populated areas, so if this happened in the landing approach it will have been a major disaster both in the air and in land...
But our authorities are too lazy to do something about this issue...
Blink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2592 times:
30 meters . Just imagine what the pax with window seats were thinking when they saw another aircraft fullsize right next to them. It's amazing that nothing happened, this qualifies for a near near near miss.
Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
Planenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2561 times:
This little blurb was posted in the Aviation Safety Network homepage:
24 OCT 2002 A Lufthansa Boeing 747-400 reportedly missed a Mexicana Airbus A.320 by some 30m while on approach to Mexico City Airport, October 7. The Lufthansa pilot ignored contrary orders from air traffic control and followed his TCAS RA to climb. (AFX)
David_mx From Mexico, joined Nov 1999, 209 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2532 times:
Probably was because workload of the ATC Controller, how many people is on MEX working on the approach? I imagine their workload is incredibly tough since they have just two runways and one plane arriving every 30 sec's or something like that.
Thank God all went ok... as Rojo said if you have a look to MEX approach is surrounded by heavy populated areas, this would be a worse catastrophe than the Terenife one.
Andreas From Germany, joined Oct 2001, 6104 posts, RR: 31
Reply 21, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 2452 times:
..are able to read German, but I can assure you, there was not a bit of German=hero and Mexican=stupid in it, as Spiegel Online does not belong in the yellow press basket. On the other hand SQ325 is completely right saying that it is nearly impossible to find out what really happened without knowing facts like what did ATC order the LH jet to do etc. The little report on the Aviation Safety Network homepage doesn't help either.
Maybe the whole thing would have gone unnoticed by media, if there had been no accident over Lake Constance a few months ago, with similar key words: TCAS, possible ATC error, many people in large aircraft...Well, you know how it works.
Regards and Greetings to Hongkong
Ghost77 From Mexico, joined Mar 2000, 5217 posts, RR: 51
Reply 23, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2249 times:
I have many friends that work in the Aviation here in Mexico, a friend of mine Pilot from the A319/320 in MXA told me two days after this happen the 9th what happened, I was really impressed but I usually don't like to said about this things... a day later I call a ATC in charge of MEX_TWR (Jorge L....s), told me about what happened about this incident and if there was an ERROR by the ATC at that moment, there's going to be a SEVERE CALL, or a punishment like downgrading this ATC to another airport with lesssss traffic... Let me tell you APP at MEX during rush hours it's incredible, and the worst thing is that there's only one person handling all those traffics this is not like the US with N, S, W, E APPs., if you once fly to MEX, bring a scanner, tune 121.85 for MEX_APP, lot's of acfts, landing in two rwys only.... really a circus!
Believe me, there's going to be an Investigation, this is something serious for MX and LH, so it's better not to 'scare' the people in Mexico... flying to Germany or Mexicana....
Ricardo Morales - flyAPM - ¡No es que maneje rapido, solo estoy volando lento!
AM744 From Mexico, joined Jun 2001, 1773 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (11 years 9 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2090 times:
Sure, but our authorities are a joke. They are too ashamed to make public that they just don't do their work properly. What where they trying to achieve by hiding this???? They thought they could get away with it. Yeah right. Whenever something goes wrong it is hidden rather than investigated. Does the DGAC(Mexican FAA) make serious and detailed reports? Do they make recomendations or modify regulations based on the conclusions of this reports? I seriously doubt it.
: Any update on this? No one that is with Lufthansa and knows some more? Thanks Jan
: Hey, I was just watching the news today (CNI for you mexican guys ; ) It seems that Mexican ATC and the SCT (the transport ministry) have done a pres
: I don't know about the security or training level in Mexican aviation, or the modernity of their equipment. But sincerely, I hope that people here are