This is an interesting article in which Transat A.T. CEO suggests its competitors are crazy because they are apparantly adding 40% capacity this winter compared to one year ago. Air Transat will remain at the same level as last year, and suggests one or more competitors will be "crippled" by adding this much capacity.
Air Transat isn't perfect, but I give them credit for being in a good financial position, and also being conservative with their growth prospects.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
Slawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 10 Reply 1, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 1870 times:
Transat said the same thing a few months ago, can't recall for sure but it was at some meeting of Canadian aircarriers...anyway I agree with what they are saying, I see the moves of some carriers, Skyservice in particular as maybe being a bit too much. Tour operators are not always 100% accurate in predicting their requirements for each season. I guess only time will tell who was right, I personaly think that transat's take on it is the safest, and most correct, but I could be wrong....and hope that I am for the sake of those still working in the industry.
"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 2, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 1826 times:
I totally agree with you Slawko (amazingly). It says a lot that after September 11th, the airline with the worst on time and customer service records in Canada, as well as suffering from a few incidents (Azores, Florida, and France) remained, and is now posting profits again.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
Gmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 22 Reply 6, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 1790 times:
It definately is a risky move by the tour companies, but if it does work and the business is there.....than look out! I don't think TS is in a position right now to lay it on the line to try and gain market share.....they are doing the right thing.....slow and steady wins the race you know.....I think you will see SSV chasing their tail in the end of it....
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 7, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1733 times:
VonRichtofen, you are so ignorant for not knowing the Florida incident!!!!
The Florida incident was not a big deal, but it did make headlines when an L1011 was taxiing to take off, and there was smoke in the cabin. They decided to evacuate. This was at a time when the media followed every move that Air Transat made, and always put them as the top story with stupid things like "Air Transat fuel spill, airplane departs 1 hour late!!!" and BS like that.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
Rootsgirl From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 530 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1733 times:
If the market need is there then SSV should have no qualms about it. Bear in mind that it is the tour operator who pays for the lease of the aircraft for SSV, so therefore, if SSV only has one seat sold on a flight, the tour operator is still paying full for it.
As for Transat, they still are much larger than SSV, so therefore, they can be cautious because they are still yeilding more. And I guess they have to be cautious until the incident about the Azores really comes into full fruition and the investigative report is released.
Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?
I did not see anyone here disagreeing when TS announced their increase sched routes to Warsaw, Paris, Italy and Dublin.
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16004 posts, RR: 59 Reply 11, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1699 times:
Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?
Not necessarily. The Canadian tour companies should seek out the airline offering the lowest cost, not just the Canadian charter carrier offering the lowest cost. If MyTravel can serve the Canada-UK market cheaper than TS ot SSV, then that is to the advantage of the Canadian traveller. Besides, the Canada-UK market served by MyTravel is not "Canadian business"....they were also serving UK customers visiting Canada.
Similarly, if a US charter carrier was ever able to offer Canadian tour companies lower costs on Canada-LAS or Canada-Florida charters, it would be in the Canadian consumer's interest for the tour company to select the US carrier.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Rootsgirl From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 530 posts, RR: 3 Reply 15, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1680 times:
Nuno, meaning what??? You were waiting for someone to play the devils advocate? Good point about Transat collecting more licenses for sched Polaris. But that's o.k. according to the " experts" ha! ha!
Cessnapimp From Canada, joined Oct 2001, 1320 posts, RR: 22 Reply 16, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1676 times:
Too much time... yeah right...
Spent most of my time today freezing my cohones fuelling an AF 340. 53 000 litres. Maybe it was the cold and the fumes, but those AF koochies were all hot!
Neil, you heard wrong we merely had a shared cinematographic experience... uh... I know which one sounds worse now...
Lymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1133 posts, RR: 1 Reply 17, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 1661 times:
"Why should Canadian business go to My Travel or JMC? I say bring it on to Canadian carriers and if SSV is in the position to get it then why not?"
Rootsgirl, there are 2 sides to this... Of course if there are unemployed, qualified Canadian flight crew out there (which there are quite a few!) it is very difficult to justify using UK-registered aircraft and crew in Canada. However, the same argument could be said with SSV and their winter ops with Canadian crews in the UK(where there are also unemployed, qualified flight crew).
Polaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1123 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1613 times:
The Canadian tour companies should seek out the airline offering the lowest cost, not just the Canadian charter carrier offering the lowest cost. If MyTravel can serve the Canada-UK market cheaper than TS ot SSV, then that is to the advantage of the Canadian traveller.
Unfortunately, by doing this, tour companies would be looking at only one side of the equation. That side being the supposed benefit to the Canadian traveller.
The complete picture would also include benefits to the Canadian employee and the general public. The Canadian traveller that chooses the services of a Canadian employee working for a Canadian company that, in turn, pay taxes into the Canadian system that benefits the general public...now that's a winning combination and an advantage to everyone!
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 19, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1593 times:
Polaris, that is a good point, and it shows that there are qualitative, and not just quantitative factors which should weigh in the decision to use either a Canadian airline or a foreign airline. But truth be told, the tour operator will be looking at dollars and cents, and not take into account qualitative factors. There are many benefits for a Canadian tour operator, focussing on the Canadian market to use a Canadian airline, and that might not equate to direct dollars and cents savings, but in the long run, it just might weigh in their favour. That becomes a very complicated process though, to figure out the proper benefits of either option.
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
Yyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16004 posts, RR: 59 Reply 20, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1593 times:
The complete picture would also include benefits to the Canadian employee and the general public. The Canadian traveller that chooses the services of a Canadian employee working for a Canadian company that, in turn, pay taxes into the Canadian system that benefits the general public...now that's a winning combination and an advantage to everyone!
No, I disagree. When you buy a vacation, you want the lowest costs. If a foreign company can provide it cheaper, then that is to a Canadian's advantage. You have extra cash left over for other purchases/investments.
Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
Rootsgirl From Canada, joined Mar 2001, 530 posts, RR: 3 Reply 21, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 1588 times:
In the paper today...Transat still holds the reigns as the largest charter airline in Canada, having over 40% share of the market. The rest of the market is shared with SSV/Westjet ( now doing some charters), Zoom and the other new one from out west.
Lymann, yes, there are 2 sides to the story. While SSV is using a British front end for the 757 and a Canadian back end ( temporarily until our own 2 757's arrive in the spring), My Travel uses a Canadian front end to operate the 320's that SSV sends over to the UK for the summer. Kind of six of one - half a dozen of ther other.
As far as it being cheaper for the tour operator to use My Travel/ JMC - not so. It was a fact that SSV did not have the fleet " readily available" to do it.
I guess My Travel/Sunquest are all under the North American Leisure Group umbrella, so it's kind of a weird relationship. I guess it works for them.
Though, we will have to wait and see what the future holds for My Travel - thus maybe a possibilit of affecting Sunquest/Alba - according the the paper today. But....could it be Signature to the rescue?
Polaris From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 1123 posts, RR: 1 Reply 22, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1531 times:
When you buy a vacation, you want the lowest costs. If a foreign company can provide it cheaper, then that is to a Canadian's advantage. You have extra cash left over for other purchases/investments
Yes, from an individual perspective, you might have a little more money in your individual pocket. However, the foreign company will re-direct 60% of the money from the sale "back home" to the country where it is headquartered. That means money leaves Canada to the benefit of citizens in other countries. (These average percentages are available through research companies.)
Purchasing through a Canadian company will keep 60% of the sale in the home country. That money routes through the system and provides greater benefits to all who work and live in that country. That money then allows you to take your vacation, keeps your neighbour employed and, in turn, maintains the society you are trying to build.
Captaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 58 Reply 24, posted (10 years 7 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1526 times:
Sorry Slawko, that's a grey tie that I used. Sorry if you're that confused!
"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
25 Polaris: Captaingomes: the tour operator will be looking at dollars and cents, and not take into account qualitative factors. If I may, I'd like to take your c
26 Slawko: HEHE...oh ok Nuno sorry...thats right I forgot the grey tie...
27 Yyz717: Yes, from an individual perspective, you might have a little more money in your individual pocket. However, the foreign company will re-direct 60% of
28 Slawko: I would agree with YYZ717's stand point only if the situation was the same for Canadian operators...in other words, no problem let JMC or My Travel fl
29 Yyz717: no problem let JMC or My Travel fly here, but then let Transat go over there and compete for that market. It cant work just one way.... It's not worki
30 Cpt Underpants: Folks, you're missing the bigger picture here. Mr. Eustache and his crew are whining to the media because these other 3 tour operators are going after
31 Boeing747-700: I WAS ON THAT PLANE THAT HAD THE ACCIDENT IN FLORIDA THAT DAY IT HAPPEND TOO. I GOT OFF IN ORLANDO AND IT WAS TAKING PEOPLE BACK TO TORONTO. I WAS ON
32 Captaingomes: Captain Underpants, I agree to a point with what you have to say. But like has been said before, Transat has large reserves to play with, and the same
33 Polaris: My point is not anti-trade at all. My point is that money used to purchase Canadian product is more likely to circulate in Canada and as such is more
34 Yyz717: My point is that money used to purchase Canadian product is more likely to circulate in Canada and as such is more likely to benefit Canadians - that
35 Polaris: No, my point is not anti-trade. It is a fact. At no point did I say anything about restricting competition. I'm just stating the obvious. My point app
36 Dash8King: I forget where Westjet is doing charters this year can anyone help me?
37 Rootsgirl: Yes, lets' just see. I'm placing my vote that SSV will suffice just fine. Why is Transat complaing so much? They still have the market dominance in ch
38 Yyz717: WJ is also doing a Varadero series this winter, not sure whether from YYZ or YHM.
39 Slawko: I was just using transat as an example, didnt mean to offend you rootsgirl My point is actually in support of YYZ717's view, if Canadian operators whe
40 Gate Keeper: Rootsgirl you said "As far as it being cheaper for the tour operator to use My Travel/ JMC - not so. It was a fact that SSV did not have the fleet " r
41 Polaris: I think that if foreign carriers flew from Canada on sunquest or conquest charters yes a portion of money would flow out of the country, but a large c
42 Slawko: Where I disagree with you is that even the money that goes out generates money in canada, through more service, better prices for Canadian's, and the
43 Cmm340: I could be mistaken however SSV did not have sufficient fleet required for the 2002 summer transatlantic program, and therefore the 'lift' was provide
44 Slawko: Transat AT own Star airlines and Air Transat outright, thats not the same as SSV being contracted by UK carriers or V/V.
45 Polaris: Where I disagree with you is that even the money that goes out generates money in canada, through more service, better prices for Canadian's, and the
46 Cmm340: Contracted? didn't think I had said that. SSV is independently owned but has contracts, yes, with NALG, Conquest, Signature and Titan Tours, to name a
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