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Will Alaska Airlines Get More B737-200's?  
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Posted (11 years 12 months 3 hours ago) and read 6767 times:

Hello!

I know SWA and a lot of others are retiring there 737-200's, will Alaska Airlines buy any of them and comvert them to combi's for bush operations?

Would like to hear what you guys have to say.

Thanks!

-Dmitry

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (11 years 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 5692 times:

The FAA is very much Poo-Pooing any new combi aircraft, either new build or converted. So that is one of the reasons why the market value for the existing combi 737's is going through the roof.

Alaska was looking for a good many years before they picked up 747AS(I think that is the tail number) and it was desperately needed. I don't know if they are still looking for combis, they don't come on the market that often.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (11 years 12 months ago) and read 5645 times:

I think Alaska could even use some all cargo 737-200's.

-Dmitry


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 3, posted (11 years 12 months ago) and read 5643 times:

I don't think that would be a smart move, most routes instate wouldn't support that large of aircraft, in anything other then a combi.

I could see a combi version of a -300 or -400 running between Anchorage and Seattle/Portland as possibly making money, but I am not sure that would justify the cost.

Of course Alaska kept N753AS running as a straight freighter for the whole summer of 1994 when I worked for them, It was the last 727 in their fleet.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5586 times:

You could be right. I wonder how long they plan to keep the -200's, I would say at least 10 more years.

-Dmitry


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5520 times:

I would say at least that....

They are definatly going to outlive the MD-80's



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 867 posts, RR: 8
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5514 times:

Yes AS could use more 737-200's. I would say if they could add 1 or even 2 all freighter -200 they would be a bit better off. It would be a dream if they could get a -790F built and approved, however that will not occur.

As far as the MD's, yeah they are on the way out, but not as soon as most would think. The rates they scored on those birds after September 11 is unheard of, and easily reclaimed the bird some much earned flying time in the years ahead. I could see N931AS N950AS and N951AS being on the top of the list to hit VCV first, maybe I can sway them to park it at my house, I don't charge rent, and trust me it would be in good hands!

Ryan aka KindaScaryHowMuchHeLovesTheMD80



You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 5505 times:

I need to correct something in my earlier post.

I can see a freighter of a mid-range 737, that means a -300 or -400 conversion. Not a combi as I typed.

I don't see much point to a -200 freighter unless Alaska wanted to fly straight cargo within Alaska to gravel strips.

I don't think there is enough of that buisness, especially when competing with Everett's and NAC's DC-6's and Lyndon's C-130's to justify the expense.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineRydawg82 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 867 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 4 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 5485 times:

Would just make our lives upstairs a little easier if we could have a 73S operate ANC-DUT-ANC and a 73M (Freighter) run it seperatly.


You can take the pup out of Alaska, but you can't take the Alaska out of the pup.
User currently offlineBjones From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5429 times:

When Alaska's board of directors approved the search that resulted in the purchase of 747AS they approved the purchase of 2 aircraft. I don't know if they are still looking for another one or not. They could use it. As far as an all cargo -200 goes it would be useful for more than just gravel strips in Alaska they currently run at least one -200 in an all cargo configuration between Anchorage and Seattle every night and depending on fishing season have various freighters through southeast Alaska as well.

User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2901 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5390 times:
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Some of the folks I've talked to have also confirmed that the MD80's are destined to stay in the fleet longer now that the lease rates are so low, much to the dismay of the cabin crews who don't like that plane at all, it seems...

User currently offlineBrianhames From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 795 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 5382 times:

Wonder how long it will be before they cut a whole in the front of the 700 and make IT a combi?


 Big thumbs up


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5344 times:

After they got rid of the last 727 N753AS they where running at least one, if not two of the combis down to Seattle.

But that trip is 1200 miles. I think they have a weight penalty with using the combi's. Also you have issues with the noise curfew in Seattle. In case yall where wondering why so many flights depart right between midnight and 2 am up here is Anchorage.

A freighter conversion of a heavier lifting 737 may be a brighter solution.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5282 times:

Was in SEA a couple of days ago and saw a few -200's, must be cargo down and perhaps some pax from the Southern tip of AK. I think they will get more -200's in the near future, I think this would be the best time to buy them, they are pretty cheap for the time being.

-Dmitry


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5275 times:

They do use a combi 737 on a "milk run" to all of the small towns in Southeast.

One trip south and one trip north has been traditional.

Also some of the heavy maintaince has to be done at the Seattle Hangers.

Dimitry, the prices on -200 combis aren't dropping anytime soon. Boeing only built about 250 of them.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineBjones From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 123 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5239 times:

The -200 is able to carry a pretty decent load on the ANC-SEA run. It is also not limited on noise anymore because they are all hush kitted and are stage 3 compliant now. The noise restrictions out of SEA was before the hushkit.

Weren't the combis an aftermarket conversion, not an original build from Boeing?


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5207 times:

Nope, Boeing offered it as a factory option.

Bjones, Are you working for those guys?

Just curious, because I remember hearing that weight restrictions was one of the reasons why they held onto N753AS so long after the rest of the 727's where retired in 94.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 5123 times:

Boeing built between 95 & 105 737-200Cs. I went to three different sources to look this up, and came away with three conflicting numbers. The last -200 Combi was built/delivered in 1985...this one every source agreed on. I also agree that Alaska could use another -200C...the tenth ship if Alaska's management can find & fund one. There are a handful in out of service/in storage per Bill Harms' census list. And let not forget that Boeing does produce a 737-700 combi/convertible...the C-40. The USN has 6 while the USAF has 4. IMO, the 737-200 is a very rugged aircraft, and the combi version will be around for many years to come, even after the early 733/4/5s are gone. Good topic as well.  Wink/being sarcastic Regards.


"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 5074 times:

You know I think the -200 is one of those excellent built planes that will out live some of the new up to date aircraft flying now. I saw about 2 of them in SEA last week, looks like they have about 2 flights per day with the -200's. Any idea what they ship down in them?

-Dmitry


User currently offlineAS_GSC From United States of America, joined Sep 2002, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 5056 times:

I used to work for AS in SEA and I can tell you that anything and the kitchen sink is on there. (I do remember actually seeing some kitchen sinks!) AS continues to transport horses on a regular basis.

Salmon is the name of the game when it's in season. During the Copper River Salmon season, several freighters per day are packed with 30,000+ lbs of fish running non-stop between CDV (Cordova, Alaska) and SEA. Someone in LAX can eat something that was caught the same day in CDV.

For the most part, it's household supplies for people who are moving to or from AK or did too much shopping when they came down to the lower 48. They would have to ship any excess items as cargo.

Cheers!
AS_GSC



User currently offlineNonrevman From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1302 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5018 times:

Some of the routes that the combis are flying are places that have no connecting roads and possibly little chance of receiving cargo by sea. They are places like Nome, Barrow, Prudhoe Bay, and Juneau. Naturally, they need some type of passenger service, so an all freighter version would not help. Yet, that cargo space is probably very precious to this communities, especially Barrow with its 1 month a year access by barge. That leaves the combi as the ideal plane for those routes.

User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 5 days ago) and read 4964 times:

Thanks guys! Very interesting!

-Dmitry


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4941 times:

If there was a combi version of the 737-700 approved for airline use, it would have several problems.

The FAA trend to deny approvals for combi aircraft, this was in response to the SAA 747 crash a few years back, which was blamed on a main deck cargo fire.

I don't think the palletized seating would need the G force requirements that are now in effect. So no quick change aircraft.

Even it there where quick change seating that could be certified, the FAA requirements now for a main deck cargo compartment pretty much would allow for only a hard bulkhead, so you would be stuck in a 3 pallet configuration, wearas the current older QC combis can be configured appropriately for the available load.

Don't expect a -700 ever to get gravel certified. That isn't as big of an issue as it used to be, but you still won't be able to land one at Red Dog.

I don't think you will be able to operate a -700 into DUT. I was down in DUT today and got to see the morning flight land (N743AS if you where wondering) It is impressive to watching it stop on that 3900 feet. A -700 could relive flight pressure on the -200's to do those marginal routes, but again getting a -200 would allow it to fly those routes.



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
User currently offlineAlaskaairlines From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2054 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4873 times:

Shawn, where is DUT? That sure would be breathtaking to watch a -200 land on a 3900' RWY! How much of it does it use when taking off? BTW, what were you doing at DUT?

-Dmitry


User currently offlineL-188 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 29805 posts, RR: 58
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4869 times:

Dutch Harbor is down the chain about 600 miles from Anchorage. Takes about three hours to fly it in a Metro.

It was a fun trip.

Bouncy as hell over Turnigan Arm on both legs. That was Monday, the same day that they had those wind storms take out all of those power lines down at Girdwood.

We had a charter to drop off a generator at Nikolski which is on Umnak island, the next one out from Dutch Harbor. Just happened to be scheduled to leave at 0800 which was an hour after I got off work that night. Since there was no passengers I hopped down. And since the generator weight a little over 750 lbs I think they wanted the extra help to get it off the aircraft.

Stopped for gas at my old stomping grounds at Cold Bay and then we had to go over to Dutch Harbor and pickup the mechanic that was actually going to install the generator at Nikolski and take him over there too.

We then flew VFR from Dutch Harbor to Nikolski staying under 2000 the whole way. At Nikolski we must have had the whole town out taking photographs of out aircraft. Apparently the only thing they ever see on that 3400 foot strip is the Goose that Pen-Air flies out of Dutch Harbor, nothing as big at that Metro we where flying around in!

Got to see my old ramp lead from Cold Bay at Nikolski too. Which was very cool, didn't get to see his dog though, which I puppy sat on a couple of occasions.

The only thing that was a downer is that I didn't bring a camera with me.

Like I said A really neat trip.

Like I said it was really impressive watching the 737 land, used only about two thirds of the strip but it was wet so the whole backside of the aircraft disappeared in water vapor being kicked up by the aircraft.

Too bad I didn't bring a camera, I was at our aircraft on the ramp when it landed, it would have made a great inside the fence shot.

On other observations, saw the TSA agents at work there in DUT, they must have hired those guys right off the cannery/processor lines......SCARY!!!



OBAMA-WORST PRESIDENT EVER....Even SKOORB would be better.
25 Douglas DC-9 : I honesly think that they should save the 737-200's for cargo services! If you ask me the 737-204 was the best model of the 737 ever built! As for Ala
26 FlagshipAZ : Douglas DC-9...just out of curiosity, why do you think the -204 subtype is the best model 737? That's Britannia Airways' customer code for their 737s,
27 Post contains links and images L-188 : Here is a shot of the Dutch Harbor airport for those who are interested. View Large View MediumPhoto © Dan Gasper This Metro is landing opposite
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