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B 777-200LR/B777-300ER  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Seems that they are not doing as well as they can. I guess its something to do with the exclusive engine deals they have with General Electric right?

At the first place, why did Boeing sign that deal? They didn't do it with the B 777-200ER/B747-400ER but these two? This is going to hurt Boeing in terms of sales since many B 777s (For example: UA's) are NOT powered by GE Engines.

Any plans to end this deal?

31 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 1666 times:

Boeing likes to standarize it's production to reduce cost & complexity.

However it wouldn't be the first time they focus to much on their own processes & forget the customer in the process.

shooting in their own foot, many potential customers want to have the RR on their 777's for their own standarization ...


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1642 times:

Many customers who have RR or P&W powered widebodies will not want to order the exclusive GE90 powered 777-200LR & 300ER. Many who have RR powerplants may go to Airbus for the RR Trent powered A340-500/600. We may see in a few years a PW4000 series powerplant being offered on the new A340 models which might get NW to order them.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 3, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1641 times:

Also, P&W.

Any chance that they will end this deal?


User currently offlineEjazz From United Arab Emirates, joined May 2002, 722 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1643 times:

GE agreed to pay half the certification costs for engine exclusivity on the B772LR and B773ER.

SIA did ask Boeing for the RR on the above models and delayed signing for the A340-500 in the hope of a compromise. When it became apparent that a compromise was not possible under the existing contracts SIA signed for 5 firm and 5 option A340-500 to ensure the commencement of LAX-SIN non-stop services Nov 3 next year.



Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1636 times:

I think Boeing MUST end this deal IMMEDIATELY in order gain more customers to compete with Airbus.

Does anyone have the number of orders for B 777-200LR/B777-300ER, as well as A 340-500/600?

I think Northwest will order more B 747-400s, which they already have a few on order. They might consider the B 747-400ER/QLR as well, due to their growing presence in Asia.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1631 times:

Well, Boeing missed the boat. SQ could have ordered the B 777-200LR/300ER.

Let's just hope that Boeing will wake up soon.... And I hope SQ will consider the B 747-400QLR.


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1621 times:

If Airbus offers to NW a PW4000 series powerplant on either the A340-500 or 600, they will buy them because their flight crews will already have the training to fly them because the A340 has the same cockpit commonality as the A330.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1618 times:

They may order both..... Who knows? They already have the B 747-400.  Smile



User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1609 times:

If Boeing cancels the exclusive engine deal with GE and brings in P&W and RR to market their engines on these new 777 models, it will keep the workforce at United technologies and Rolls Royce from being laid off.

User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1590 times:

Bunch of spin doctors! No, Boeing will not abandon the deal. The 772LR might not be doing well, but the 773ER is doing quite well against the A346. It is in an order doldrum, but that has to do with the economy, not the engine. JAL and ANA were not reluctant to order the GE90 engines, even though they have 777s with the PW4000 engines. When the economy recovers, I can assure you some of the existing 777 operators with the Trents will order the 772LR/3ER, too. In fact, we probably don't even have to wait too long because Emirates is close to making their next batch of 777 orders which might likely to include the 773ER.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 11, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 1587 times:

I strongly agree. Any talks on this?

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

Only offering GE90 on these aircraft is not the strongest selling point towards some carriers.

Agreed ?
 Smile


User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1569 times:

RR and PW are not willing to spend $$$$$$$ on developing 110-120K engines and then grabbing a third each of a limited run of Longer Range 777s.
It wouldn`t be economic viable.

And it still puzzles me that so many of you still consider engine commonality to be of greater significance to airlines than airframe commonality!
You really think UA ( when (if??) they emerge from their difficulties ) will order A345/6 with PWs( if the 345/6 will ever get pratts) instead of the 772LR/773ER with GEs????

come on!


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineArtsyman From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 4745 posts, RR: 34
Reply 14, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1565 times:

The silly thing is that the GE90 is a fantastic engine, so I don't see what the problem is.

Jeremy


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1550 times:

While RR might be able to offer an engine for these planes quite quickly (they already had Trents running with 105,000+ lbf), P&W cannot. The PW4000 core has been maxed out, according to PW themselves. So they would need to build a new engine type, and I doubt that would pay off.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1514 times:

I think if UA survives through its current crisis, I don't think they will order the A 345/346 with P&W Engines. Instead they will order more B 777-200ERs, as well as B 747-400/400ER/400QLR. I mean when it comes to REPLACEMENT, which will not happen anytime soon Afterall, they have a large fleet of these two types. So you never know......

But there is a market for the B 777-200LR, as well as 300ER.


User currently offlineDynkrisolo From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1866 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 1509 times:

P&W is not alone. Rolls won't be able to do a 115,000-lb engine with its current Trent 800 core. Having run an engine up to 105,000 lb does not mean it can have a certifiable engine at that thrust.

User currently offlineJAL From Canada, joined Apr 2000, 5085 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

I definitely think that Boeing should end the exclusivity deal with GE, this deal is costing the 777-200LR/300ER potential customers.

Just out of curiosity, doesn't Airbus have a similar deal with RR to power the A340-500/600?



Work Hard But Play Harder
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 1424 times:

So which one is doing better? The B 777-300ER or the A 346?

User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 1391 times:

I think it's the matter of it being a fairly small niche. Boeing got a good deal from GE to lessen the cost of development -- perhaps it will cost them a handful of sales, but the idea is profit as well as numbers. It's just not clear that there's a big order lurking for any ultra-long-range machine.

Steve


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1346 times:

Airbus DOES NOT have an exclusive engine deal with Rolls Royce. Rolls Royce had the Trent 500 series powerplant available at the time to power the new A340-500/600 models. P&W could possibly offer a PW4000 series engine to Airbus as an option for their new A340 models in a few years for anyone interested such as NW and others.

User currently offlineBigo747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 1296 times:

IF UA survived, they'll be likely to order 0 long-haul aircraft until their financial status is healthy.

Till that time, UA will be likely to buy 777s unless the market demand shows there's a need for B747/A380 class aircraft.


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1217 times:

So does anyone have the updated number of orders for the A 345, 346, as well as the B 772LR, B 773ER?

Thanks!



User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9185 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (11 years 11 months 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1215 times:

Also anything else they can do to promote these two products?

25 ConcordeBoy : There are currently five 772LR and 49 773ER sold. BR and PK have ordered the 772LR BR, NH, JL, AF, and PK have all ordered the 773ER, as well as ILFC
26 United Airline : Thanks mate! What about the A 3450-500, as well as the 600?
27 TEDSKI : I read where Airbus might be releasing an increased gross weight version of the A340-600 with range close to the A340-500 which would beat the 777-300
28 Bigo747 : I thought B772LR/773ER gets more order than 345/346? By the way, A340-500/-600 got 0 orders for 2002, I think. (excluding the SAA order, which some co
29 United Airline : Bigo747, I think so too. -Desmond
30 The Coachman : If Airbus did that, they would shoot the A340-500 down themselves. There is no point if the A340-600 could do that. I saw in a mag that if AI could ge
31 United Airline : If CX likes the A 340-600, they will order more...
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