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New ATA Flights From PIE  
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6443 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2540 times:

ATA will start new non-stop service from PIE(St. Petersburg-Clearwater) to LAX, SFO, and LAS. SFO and LAX will start 2/7/03 and will be daily except for one day a week. LAS will start on 3/6/03, and will be twice a week
All flights will be on 757-300. The LAX and SFO flights will continue on to HNL and OGG.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineJohnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2576 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2507 times:

LAX-PIE: The Scientology Express!

User currently offlineOuboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4565 posts, RR: 21
Reply 2, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2490 times:

Welcome to the new ATA Mini-Hub.  Smile

User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

I hope someone knows what the hell we're doing with these new routes...I'm all for boosting utilization rates on these expensive new birds, but I'm "eager" to see how these particular routes will perform. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these markets can chime in. We're using our largest aircraft to launch non-hub flying? One of those things that make you go hmmm...

Here's another thread on this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/956505/

joe


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5722 posts, RR: 11
Reply 4, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

um.... I have been to Tampa- flew into tampa int'l of course- and it was great. The family I was down there to visit with lives very near PIE however. I asked as we drove by, "should I have flown into this airport?" And they said, "well, it's much closer, but no airlines fly there." As she said that, I saw an ATA 737-800 on finals about three feet over the roof of the car (I could almost read MICHELIN as they went over the higway). Then, I saw a billboard for PANAM. So, I came home and found out that yes, ATA does have SCHEDULED svc to PIE. Great I thought.

But honestly (point of this reply) why would they make it a mini- hub? Not that many people live out there, and it's 45 minutes from Tampa. Which is nowhere near Miami. Who is gonna fly LAX-PIE? It's like... flying into Arlington airport here in the metroplex. Airline service? okay, maybe. Hub? You're smoking grass.

WITH A 757-300!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! whatever.

I like ATA. I hpe they don't spend much money on this, because I don't think it makes any sense what-so-ever.

RanDale


User currently offlineFly_ATA From United States of America, joined May 2001, 616 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2466 times:

A few reasons may be the very low landing fees and the fact that the St. Petersburg dept. of tourism pays for a nice chunk of advertising for ATA.

User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

AA737-823

I don't think you have your facts straight. More people in the Tampa Bay area live closer to PIE than TPA. You mentioned its "nowhere near Miami". What does that have to do with it. The Tampa Bay area has more than 3.2 million population.

Also all of the Suncoast beaches are closer to PIE, which is why tourists come to Florida


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32602 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 2430 times:

The Tampa Bay area has more than 3.2 million population.

TPA has less than 3M people. It is a large city, though. What is odd is that there is going to be PIE-SFO service, but there is no TPA-SFO service.

I find the route selection very odd. I was thinking they would want to do FLL-LAX/SFO. FLL is a much larger market, with the only trans-con service being two daily AA 757s to LAX.



a.
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6381 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2418 times:

Actually, ATA used to have a mini-hub at PIE. BTW, Pan Am left.


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineBobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6443 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2406 times:

The figures do not show that FLL is a better market than TPA to LAX, SFO, LAS.

Average passengers per day

FLL-LAS---471
TPA-LAS---675

FLL-LAX---738
TPA-LAX---712

FLL-SFO---180
TPA-SFO---252

These numbers are from the Department of Transportation.

As far as popualation goes the Tampa Bay area has a population of 3,205,996 as of the census of 2000. These numbers are from the State of Florida web site.

Also per The Nielson people, the Tampa Bay area is the 13th largest in the country as a media market. FLL-MIA is listed as #17.


User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1345 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2405 times:

According to the recent Census, the Tampa Bay area (Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, and Manatee counties) has a total population of 2,589,109. Pinellas County (St. Pete/Clearwater) alone accounts for 924,610 citizens, whereas Hillsborough County accounts for 1,027,318 citizens. I believe Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida, given its size in relation to Hillsborough County.

I hope ATA plans on expanding their ticket counters at PIE. It's going to be a madhouse in the early morning hours, if the carrier ever gets to their full load factors.

UA had plans to start TPA-SFO when they had TPA-LAX, but that was shelved.

ATA used to have PIE-SJU and PIE-MIA once upon a time.


User currently offlinePhatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1345 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2400 times:

By the way, I did not count Polk county (as the State of Florida may have counted it) as they really are not part of Tampa Bay. The Lakeland area is pretty much their own entity, split between traveling to MCO or TPA.

User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6381 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 2398 times:

I think ATA is the REAL glue holding PIE together. Who else serves it?

Royal-gone
Canada 3000-gone
Pan Am(#3)-gone
American-gone
Air South-gone
Midway(#1)-gone
People Express/Continental-gone
Eastwind-gone (they were there only 9 days!)

I think this is all:
Some small form of Sunjet International/Southeast
Air Transat
ATA




Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32602 posts, RR: 72
Reply 13, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Also per The Nielson people, the Tampa Bay area is the 13th largest in the country as a media market. FLL-MIA is listed as #17.

Media market is no way to judge a city's size. Tampa's media market covers a much larger area because they are the only major city in a large area. South Florida has two media markets, Miami and West Palm Beach, that divide South Florida. Miami's CMSA is somewhere around 3.85M. Tampa's CMSA is not 3.2M.

The figures do not show that FLL is a better market than TPA to LAX, SFO, LAS.

Actually, those figures do show that FLL is a better market to LAX. Most of Ft. Lauderdale's LAX/SFO/LAS traffic goes through MIA. MIA has seven dailies to LAX, three to LAS (will be six by March), and four to SFO, plus SEA and YVR. FLL just has one to LAS and two to LAX.

As far as popualation goes the Tampa Bay area has a population of 3,205,996 as of the census of 2000. These numbers are from the State of Florida web site.


You are about 1,000,000 off (and so if the State of Florida website). The Tampa-St. Petersburg CMSA has 2,395,997 residents as of Census 2000. Miami-Ft. Lauderdale is 3,876,380, and when it merges with Palm Beach in 2004 (assuming the merger goes through as expected; the total land area of Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Palm Beach CMSA will still be smaller than Tampa-St. Peterburg), it will be at just over 5,000,000.



a.
User currently offlineCactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 25
Reply 14, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 2371 times:


The Monday Morning CEO's strike again.  Yeah sure

I'm sure the heads at ATA (who get paid to make these decisions) have figured that this is the best way to go. I see the TPA/PIE-West Coast market as being underserved (3 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS), while the MIA/FLL (14 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS) market offers more competiton for ATA. ATA is probably better off tapping the western Florida market instead of going for South Florida which already has a fair amount of service. I'm sure ATA sees it the same way which is why they decided on this strategy.



User currently offlineBig777jet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 2349 times:


>Royal-gone
>Canada 3000-gone
>Pan Am(#3)-gone
>American-gone
>Air South-gone
>Midway(#1)-gone
>People Express/Continental-gone
>Eastwind-gone (they were there only 9 days!)

Is that you said? "American" have been served before? I never heard of American Airlines served to PIE all my life. Are you sure? So, if it did so where they fly to and when they stop serve?

Thanks,

Big777jet




User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 45
Reply 16, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 2314 times:

PIE is much closer to Bradenton and Palmetto than TPA. I have family there and if I could fly into PIE without changing airlines for a connection (no codeshare from CLE) then I would probably do it.

The only time I ever flew into PIE was in 1993 with KIWI International. Unfortunately it was KIWI, not the airport itself, that left me with a bad taste.

How many other people realize that in addition to TPA & PIE, there's also SRQ (Sarasota) and three g/a airports in the Tampa metro area?

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2301 times:

MAH4546,

I find the route selection very odd. I was thinking they would want to do FLL-LAX/SFO. FLL is a much larger market, with the only trans-con service being two daily AA 757s to LAX.

FLL may be a larger market, but it is a wiser choice for ATA than PIE? The answer is no.

Lets take a look at this:

Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - Los Angeles (LAX): 1 Delta 757 from TPA, 0 from PIE.
Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - San Francisco (SFO): 0 from TPA, 0 from PIE.

Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - Los Angeles (LAX): 2 United from MIA, 5 American flights from MIA, 2 American from FLL.
Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - San Francisco (SFO): 1 on United from MIA, 2 on American from MIA, 0 from FLL.

Which market has the least competition? The Tampa Bay Area, and the most logical choice.

I understand you like the Southern Florida region because it's your home, however you need to understand that airlines do not always go for the largest market.

They go for the market that makes the most sense and in this case, the one with the least competition and MOST potential.

The MIA/FLL - LAX/SFO market is already served well.

There is nothing on the TPA/PIE-LAX/SFO market except 1 daily Delta flight on a 757 to SFO from TPA.

This is why ATA chose PIE, and it makes a lot of sense.

Like the others mentioned, PIE also has incredibly low landing fees and operatinc costs. That's another advantage for ATA.

Regards



"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32602 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2303 times:

American Eagle served MIA-PIE back in 1997. Not sure how long it lasted.


a.
User currently offlineToFlyToServe From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 32 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 2289 times:

Just wanted to let you all know that Sunjet International had its headquarters in St. Pete. I was a Flight Attendant for them during the 90s and I thought PIE was a neat airport! I loved taking off over the water. The view was great!!!We operated MD-80s and DC-9s. I was based in DFW and Sunjet operated the DC-9 on that scheduled route. It, by far, was my favorite airport, route, and plane to work.
It is good to hear that ATA is still at PIE. I had a lot of friends that work, or worked, for them at PIE. Soo just wanted you guys to know that PIE has a little more history to it. Thanks!!!!!!!


User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7987 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

I think the Tampa-St. Petersberg area is really ignored despite the fact that it is a very fast-growing area. When people think of Florida they either think of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Palm Beach area and Orlando, conveniently ignoring Tampa/St. Petersberg and Jacksonville.  Insane

Good for ATA to fly PIE-SFO, especially given more and more cruise ships are starting and ending their cruises away from overcrowded Miami.  Smile


User currently offlineFpdonald From United States of America, joined Aug 2002, 430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2278 times:

Non hub . . . couldn't help get past that . . . FA bases in both LAX and SFO.

Coast to coast, non stop, unequalled . . . a niche.

PIE is close enough to MCO to take advantage of the cheaper fares, being only an hour by road. Who else can match the route/time/investment?

Kudos, where due.



User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

I think BA has the right point as well -- there's tons of MIA/FLL service to LAX and SFO; why take all that on when from TPA/PIE there's no real competiton and far less infrastructure for it (as compared to American's significant operation at MIA)

Steve


User currently offlineScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2211 times:

Hey Guys!!!

I do remember seen with Eastwind, Canada 3000 and Air South were before into Florida there, too. When I was see Eastwind were came into FLL by last of 4 years ago from Greensboro, SC or Charleston, SC. I think. It was on the aircraft by B737-700, too. That was of the last time seen with Eastwind were came into FLL, too. I pretty sure that one for before. They are use into South terminal 4. Also, I did see Air South were flying into JAX, too. Well, catch ya later!!

Regards,

Scott W.


User currently offlineJjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2208 times:

Does PIE have any jetbridges? Is the terminal decent? If these new routes perform, there are going to be a LOT of people going through PIE on ATA. Let's hope our facilities (and those of the airport) can adequately support them.

joe


25 Ouboy79 : Non hub . . . couldn't help get past that . . . FA bases in both LAX and SFO. Is this in regards to that ATA isn't setting a hub up or that there aren
26 CactusA319 : Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That does
27 727LOVER : Cactus 319, perhaps they will add flights to within Florida destinations, then it would classify as a mimi-hub. As I stated before, they used to opera
28 Post contains images Ouboy79 : Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That doesn
29 Pecoua : I just booked myself roundtrip from LAS/PIE/LAS an when I booked my seat, it was a 737-800...I am leaving on the 9th of March and ATA said that was th
30 Fpdonald : I think you are losing the gist of these new schedules. Basically, it's a one stop to Hawaii from Florida. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays has long worked
31 CactusA319 : Oh yeah forgot that they served IND or as I call it "the forgotten hub". I'm not sure that ATA would go intra-state seeing as how Southwest and AirTr
32 Tbonecapalbo : No, PIE does not have jet bridges. However, the terminal is a beautiful facility. It is very easy to get in and out of. I would fly out of PIE any day
33 Coronado : 2 or 3 times a year I fly ATA's MSP-MDW-SRQ route since it puts me right into Sarasota and just about 10 minutes from my destination. I prefer it to t
34 ZID : Yes the Tampa/St.Petersburg MSA is only 2,395,997 but BobNWA brought up an interesting stat when he mentioned Nielsen's media ADI (area of dominant in
35 ZID : Ooops, sorry. Arbitron has the ADI's, Nielsen has the DMI's (designated market areas).
36 Post contains images Skyway1 : Just a little interesting sidenote about PIE. ATA's 737-800's are currently capped out to 156 out of 175 seats available out of PIE due to runway cons
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