Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5980 posts, RR: 9 Posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 1955 times:
ATA will start new non-stop service from PIE(St. Petersburg-Clearwater) to LAX, SFO, and LAS. SFO and LAX will start 2/7/03 and will be daily except for one day a week. LAS will start on 3/6/03, and will be twice a week
All flights will be on 757-300. The LAX and SFO flights will continue on to HNL and OGG.
Jjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 6 Reply 3, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1888 times:
I hope someone knows what the hell we're doing with these new routes...I'm all for boosting utilization rates on these expensive new birds, but I'm "eager" to see how these particular routes will perform. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of these markets can chime in. We're using our largest aircraft to launch non-hub flying? One of those things that make you go hmmm...
Here's another thread on this topic: http://www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/956505/
AA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5341 posts, RR: 11 Reply 4, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1885 times:
um.... I have been to Tampa- flew into tampa int'l of course- and it was great. The family I was down there to visit with lives very near PIE however. I asked as we drove by, "should I have flown into this airport?" And they said, "well, it's much closer, but no airlines fly there." As she said that, I saw an ATA 737-800 on finals about three feet over the roof of the car (I could almost read MICHELIN as they went over the higway). Then, I saw a billboard for PANAM. So, I came home and found out that yes, ATA does have SCHEDULED svc to PIE. Great I thought.
But honestly (point of this reply) why would they make it a mini- hub? Not that many people live out there, and it's 45 minutes from Tampa. Which is nowhere near Miami. Who is gonna fly LAX-PIE? It's like... flying into Arlington airport here in the metroplex. Airline service? okay, maybe. Hub? You're smoking grass.
WITH A 757-300!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! whatever.
I like ATA. I hpe they don't spend much money on this, because I don't think it makes any sense what-so-ever.
Bobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 5980 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1870 times:
I don't think you have your facts straight. More people in the Tampa Bay area live closer to PIE than TPA. You mentioned its "nowhere near Miami". What does that have to do with it. The Tampa Bay area has more than 3.2 million population.
Also all of the Suncoast beaches are closer to PIE, which is why tourists come to Florida
Phatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1322 posts, RR: 1 Reply 10, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1820 times:
According to the recent Census, the Tampa Bay area (Hillsborough, Pinellas, Pasco, and Manatee counties) has a total population of 2,589,109. Pinellas County (St. Pete/Clearwater) alone accounts for 924,610 citizens, whereas Hillsborough County accounts for 1,027,318 citizens. I believe Pinellas County is the most densely populated county in Florida, given its size in relation to Hillsborough County.
I hope ATA plans on expanding their ticket counters at PIE. It's going to be a madhouse in the early morning hours, if the carrier ever gets to their full load factors.
UA had plans to start TPA-SFO when they had TPA-LAX, but that was shelved.
ATA used to have PIE-SJU and PIE-MIA once upon a time.
Phatfarmlines From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 1322 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 1815 times:
By the way, I did not count Polk county (as the State of Florida may have counted it) as they really are not part of Tampa Bay. The Lakeland area is pretty much their own entity, split between traveling to MCO or TPA.
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31118 posts, RR: 73 Reply 13, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 1794 times:
Also per The Nielson people, the Tampa Bay area is the 13th largest in the country as a media market. FLL-MIA is listed as #17.
Media market is no way to judge a city's size. Tampa's media market covers a much larger area because they are the only major city in a large area. South Florida has two media markets, Miami and West Palm Beach, that divide South Florida. Miami's CMSA is somewhere around 3.85M. Tampa's CMSA is not 3.2M.
The figures do not show that FLL is a better market than TPA to LAX, SFO, LAS.
Actually, those figures do show that FLL is a better market to LAX. Most of Ft. Lauderdale's LAX/SFO/LAS traffic goes through MIA. MIA has seven dailies to LAX, three to LAS (will be six by March), and four to SFO, plus SEA and YVR. FLL just has one to LAS and two to LAX.
As far as popualation goes the Tampa Bay area has a population of 3,205,996 as of the census of 2000. These numbers are from the State of Florida web site.
You are about 1,000,000 off (and so if the State of Florida website). The Tampa-St. Petersburg CMSA has 2,395,997 residents as of Census 2000. Miami-Ft. Lauderdale is 3,876,380, and when it merges with Palm Beach in 2004 (assuming the merger goes through as expected; the total land area of Miami-Ft. Lauderdale-Palm Beach CMSA will still be smaller than Tampa-St. Peterburg), it will be at just over 5,000,000.
CactusA319 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 2918 posts, RR: 29 Reply 14, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 1786 times:
The Monday Morning CEO's strike again.
I'm sure the heads at ATA (who get paid to make these decisions) have figured that this is the best way to go. I see the TPA/PIE-West Coast market as being underserved (3 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS), while the MIA/FLL (14 flights to SFO/LAX/LAS) market offers more competiton for ATA. ATA is probably better off tapping the western Florida market instead of going for South Florida which already has a fair amount of service. I'm sure ATA sees it the same way which is why they decided on this strategy.
BA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11135 posts, RR: 61 Reply 17, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1716 times:
I find the route selection very odd. I was thinking they would want to do FLL-LAX/SFO. FLL is a much larger market, with the only trans-con service being two daily AA 757s to LAX.
FLL may be a larger market, but it is a wiser choice for ATA than PIE? The answer is no.
Lets take a look at this:
Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - Los Angeles (LAX): 1 Delta 757 from TPA, 0 from PIE. Tampa Bay Area (TPA/PIE) - San Francisco (SFO): 0 from TPA, 0 from PIE.
Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - Los Angeles (LAX): 2 United from MIA, 5 American flights from MIA, 2 American from FLL. Southern Florida (MIA/FLL) - San Francisco (SFO): 1 on United from MIA, 2 on American from MIA, 0 from FLL.
Which market has the least competition? The Tampa Bay Area, and the most logical choice.
I understand you like the Southern Florida region because it's your home, however you need to understand that airlines do not always go for the largest market.
They go for the market that makes the most sense and in this case, the one with the least competition and MOST potential.
The MIA/FLL - LAX/SFO market is already served well.
There is nothing on the TPA/PIE-LAX/SFO market except 1 daily Delta flight on a 757 to SFO from TPA.
This is why ATA chose PIE, and it makes a lot of sense.
Like the others mentioned, PIE also has incredibly low landing fees and operatinc costs. That's another advantage for ATA.
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
ToFlyToServe From United States of America, joined Oct 2002, 32 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Just wanted to let you all know that Sunjet International had its headquarters in St. Pete. I was a Flight Attendant for them during the 90s and I thought PIE was a neat airport! I loved taking off over the water. The view was great!!!We operated MD-80s and DC-9s. I was based in DFW and Sunjet operated the DC-9 on that scheduled route. It, by far, was my favorite airport, route, and plane to work.
It is good to hear that ATA is still at PIE. I had a lot of friends that work, or worked, for them at PIE. Soo just wanted you guys to know that PIE has a little more history to it. Thanks!!!!!!!
RayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 7695 posts, RR: 5 Reply 20, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1695 times:
I think the Tampa-St. Petersberg area is really ignored despite the fact that it is a very fast-growing area. When people think of Florida they either think of the Miami/Ft. Lauderdale/Palm Beach area and Orlando, conveniently ignoring Tampa/St. Petersberg and Jacksonville.
Good for ATA to fly PIE-SFO, especially given more and more cruise ships are starting and ending their cruises away from overcrowded Miami.
Sllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6 Reply 22, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1677 times:
I think BA has the right point as well -- there's tons of MIA/FLL service to LAX and SFO; why take all that on when from TPA/PIE there's no real competiton and far less infrastructure for it (as compared to American's significant operation at MIA)
ScottysAir From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 23, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1626 times:
I do remember seen with Eastwind, Canada 3000 and Air South were before into Florida there, too. When I was see Eastwind were came into FLL by last of 4 years ago from Greensboro, SC or Charleston, SC. I think. It was on the aircraft by B737-700, too. That was of the last time seen with Eastwind were came into FLL, too. I pretty sure that one for before. They are use into South terminal 4. Also, I did see Air South were flying into JAX, too. Well, catch ya later!!
Jjbiv From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 1226 posts, RR: 6 Reply 24, posted (10 years 6 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 1623 times:
Does PIE have any jetbridges? Is the terminal decent? If these new routes perform, there are going to be a LOT of people going through PIE on ATA. Let's hope our facilities (and those of the airport) can adequately support them.
25 Ouboy79: Non hub . . . couldn't help get past that . . . FA bases in both LAX and SFO. Is this in regards to that ATA isn't setting a hub up or that there aren
26 CactusA319: Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That does
27 727LOVER: Cactus 319, perhaps they will add flights to within Florida destinations, then it would classify as a mimi-hub. As I stated before, they used to opera
28 Ouboy79: Mini-hub? They're going to be flying to 4 different destinations (LAX,SFO,LAS,MDW) and there are really no connections between any of them. That doesn
29 Pecoua: I just booked myself roundtrip from LAS/PIE/LAS an when I booked my seat, it was a 737-800...I am leaving on the 9th of March and ATA said that was th
30 Fpdonald: I think you are losing the gist of these new schedules. Basically, it's a one stop to Hawaii from Florida. Pleasant Hawaiian Holidays has long worked
31 CactusA319: Oh yeah forgot that they served IND or as I call it "the forgotten hub". I'm not sure that ATA would go intra-state seeing as how Southwest and AirTr
32 Tbonecapalbo: No, PIE does not have jet bridges. However, the terminal is a beautiful facility. It is very easy to get in and out of. I would fly out of PIE any day
33 Coronado: 2 or 3 times a year I fly ATA's MSP-MDW-SRQ route since it puts me right into Sarasota and just about 10 minutes from my destination. I prefer it to t
34 ZID: Yes the Tampa/St.Petersburg MSA is only 2,395,997 but BobNWA brought up an interesting stat when he mentioned Nielsen's media ADI (area of dominant in
35 ZID: Ooops, sorry. Arbitron has the ADI's, Nielsen has the DMI's (designated market areas).
36 Skyway1: Just a little interesting sidenote about PIE. ATA's 737-800's are currently capped out to 156 out of 175 seats available out of PIE due to runway cons