Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Question About Approaches  
User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5049 posts, RR: 15
Posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1101 times:

Ok, when you turn on final you're lining up with the ILS (unless you're doing a visual) and that guides you straight in. But when I've watched planes land, sometimes they will kind of "zig-zag" on final. They'll go to the left of the runway, then execute another turn back, go a little to the right, then turn again. I saw it a couple months ago at HSV - an Atlas 747 heavy was approaching. Must have been at least 10 miles out. But it kept turning till maybe 4 or 5 miles then lined up straight with the runway. There was no other traffic. Why do they do that?

I've only seen it from the ground. I don't ever recall it happening when I was on a plane - all the approaches seem like they line up and go straight in for 7 - 10 miles.


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineMirage From Portugal, joined May 1999, 3125 posts, RR: 14
Reply 1, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 1004 times:

I'm not a pilot but a friend of mine who is, once told me that what you saw is called "to bake". It can be done to reduce speed or reduce altitude or to line up the plane as the pilot wants.

Luis, Faro, Portugal


User currently offlineBuff From Australia, joined Mar 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 999 times:

Additionally, even though you might not have seen traffic, perhaps there were airplanes taking off and extra time was needed by the Tower Controller. Or maybe it was a brand new pilot!

Best Regards,

Buff

PS Welcome back Luis!


User currently offlineBY285A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 996 times:

I think what you might have seen was called "side slipping" in which pilots correct for wind by keeping to the right (or left) of the runway every now and again and then let the wind blow them onto the centerline, using the rudder when about 300 ft above the ground

Tom


User currently offlineTwa747100 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 600 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 990 times:

Maybe he was following a bird?   

User currently offlineHeavyJet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 993 times:

This "S" turing is a technique used to increase spacing behind other aircraft or to increase total distance flown in order to lose additional altitude or airspeed if high or fast. Most of the time pilots will ask for "S" turns, but sometimes ATC will ask the pilot to do it so he/she can squeeze out another departure before you land.

Bill


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5049 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 987 times:

That might explain some of the turns at busier airports like MIA but the Atlas 747 I watched was approaching 18L at HSV and there was no departing traffic and no other arrivals on 18L or 18R.

Maybe he was correcting for wind....as someone mentioned



Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
User currently offlineRalgha From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 1614 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 975 times:

Actually, in a sideslip the airplane is always lined up with the runway. The pilot banks into the wind and uses opposite rudder to keep the longitudinal axis of the airplane parallel to the runway. It is called a sideslip because the airplane is flying sideways with respect to the runway, however, the wind is continually pushing back on the airplane and keeping it lined up with the runway. The airplane is flying sideways through the air and straight over the ground.

The other form of slip is the forward slip which is used to lose altitude quickly, usually on approach to land. The pilot shoves in full (or nearly full depending on the airplane) rudder to one side, then uses the ailerons to keep the airplane lined up with the runway. Again, the airplane is uncoordinated, flying sideways through the air, but straight across the ground.

This is a hard concept for many non-pilots to grasp and many student pilots have difficulty understanding the difference between motion with respect to the airmass and the ground.

Just to spit out another thing and maybe touch off a debate among the pilots, the downwind turn is no more dangerous than any other turn in the traffic pattern, even when the wind is high 



09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
User currently offlineHeavyJet From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 976 times:

Bruce...

Not to beat a dead horse here but, "s" turns are a fairly common manuever. Don't know what caused it with the Atlas jet but the list is long and I'm sure they had good reason. Anything from wind changes, high/fast approach, spacing with other aircraft, flying pilot being new to the equipment, or something you couldn't see such as a airport vehicle on the far end of the rwyway missing an intended taxiway turnoff. As you can see there are many reasons for S turns and they're more fuel efficient then having to go-around. I've lost count on how many times I've S turned for one reason or another.


User currently offlineBruce From United States of America, joined May 1999, 5049 posts, RR: 15
Reply 9, posted (14 years 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 952 times:

I have actually witnessed this from the ground. I've seen planes on final that did not look like they were lined up at all, coming straight in at me!! Once I got a little worried because it was coming right at me...not the runway!! But they sure were lined up....right on centerline


Bruce Leibowitz - Jackson, MS (KJAN) - Canon 50D/100-400L IS lens
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Question About IFR Approaches Using Flir posted Mon Sep 25 2006 20:33:07 by Boeing Nut
Question About LGA Approaches. posted Sat Jul 8 2006 04:22:50 by Nycflyguy
Question About EMA posted Thu Dec 14 2006 05:11:38 by Pe@rson
Question About Antrak Air (Ghana) posted Wed Dec 6 2006 14:08:08 by ENU
Question About US Dividend Miles posted Tue Dec 5 2006 09:30:49 by QXatFAT
Question About Intl. Ops At PDX posted Mon Dec 4 2006 16:01:23 by Planenutz
A Question About Route Maps posted Wed Nov 29 2006 21:48:21 by LY777
Question About SIA 744 Vs 773ER Route Assigments posted Wed Nov 29 2006 18:59:58 by NA
Question About Steward's Uniform! posted Thu Nov 23 2006 18:31:55 by RootsAir
A Question About St Maarten Airport (SXM) posted Mon Nov 20 2006 21:00:40 by Aero145