BryanG From United States of America, joined May 1999, 418 posts, RR: 0 Posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4568 times:
This Sunday Southwest finally "crashed". No fatalities, but they lost a plane. That's something that hadn't happened since day one of the company.
Are there any other "major" airlines that have "perfect" safety records? By major, I mean airlines with substantial fleets that have been around for years. By perfect, I mean no loss of life OR equipment.
Quantas came to mind, and a look of the database reported that they've had two crashes: the Bangkok 747 (which isn't a loss) and a Lockheed Constellation runway overrun in 1960. There were no fatalities on either incident, but the fate of the Connie wasn't specified. Does anyone know if that was a write-off?
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4117 posts, RR: 37 Reply 1, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 4373 times:
The Connie, VH-EAC, was written off in Mauritius in 1960, but noone was killed. But Qantas had some other write-offs earlier, before WW2. And the difficulty with such a statistics-operation; Qantas inherited and took over some other companies which DID have some (but not many) crashes. Like (Trans)Australian Airlines. So you can't say they have a PERFECT record.
America West had no real crashes but they declared a 737 N198AW a write-off, but that was because it was an oldie. If they knew they would be judged on it, they might have fixed it.
Other major airlines whitout crashes: Singapore Airlines, BWIA, Kuwait Airways (only loss are aircraft destroyed by Iraqi's), Tunis Air, Hawaiian Air, Monarch Airlines, Japan Transocean, Emirates Airlines, Royal Brunei, klm UK, Midway Airlines, American Trans Air, Air Malta, Transavia Holland, Aero Lloyd, PremiAir, Tower Air, Virgin and Meridiana.
But the real majors have just made too many flights in a time when accidents did happen ten times as much as now.
So in fact, airlines like Continental, SAS and BA have more impressive records than most of these smaller lucky airlines.
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 4350 times:
...or rather, it has different criteria.
SWA 1455 at BUR was not the first time an aircraft was damaged. There have been a few taxiway excursions (icy taxiways) over the years, and aircraft were returned to service with little damage, if any. In the mid-1980s, a 737-300 slid off at AMArillo in a driving rain and ripped off the nosegear. In 1996, a 737-300 made a partial gear-up landing at ONTario. In both cases, the aircraft were repaired and returned to service.
SWA 1455 does appear to be the first "hull loss" for SWA based upon the severity of damage and the cost to repair it.
The most critical aspect of a measurement of safety, in my book, are passengers. SWA's record of never having suffered a passenger fatality in 29 years of operations is still intact
Johnboy From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2472 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4328 times:
Isn't there some story regarding QANTAS and its no-fatality record? I remember reading somewhere about a little old lady or man falling to his/her respective death from a jetway, after being told not to walk down the jetway.
I'm not meaning to split hairs here, but I think it illustrates how one might be safer in the air on a plane versus walking around at those dangerous airports!
Mish1234 From Canada, joined Jun 1999, 298 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 4320 times:
EL AL has a very good saftey record..
1 airplane crash and one accident.
Till today they still think that it was onpurpose to loosen the engine screwes. now I really dont know what happend.. but for engines to fall off like that is messed up. Poor 747 and flight crew died.. taking 47 people in the building it ran into. PLus last year they skidded off the runway.. so its not much of a crash .. its an accident.
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4317 times:
I wouldn't say that Singapore Airlines is crash free, as you have to take into account Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA) which did have numerous crashes before the two airlines were split up. Two F27 and 1 DC-3 in the late 60s/early 70s.
The only company that I know that QANTAS took over is Australian Airlines (formerly Trans Australia Airlines). Because for so many years, Qantas was the only airline allowed to operate international services (and not domestic services) there was no other carrier that they could take over. Any crashes by TAA cannot be included in any statistics for QANTAS, as they had no control over the operations of TAA. This is like saying that the Merpati Itan Do-228 which crashed near Miri in Malaysia a few years ago, is a crash for Royal Brunei Airlines, as the flight was being operated for RBA. This is not a tarnish on the record of RBA, as it was not their plane, merely an aircraft operated on their behalf.
The QF 747 'incident' in BKK is not a crash, but is merely, as I said, an 'incident'. QF is one of the few airlines of its size that has never had a crash since the beginning of jet operations. The guys at the Jet Base take safety as being their number one priority, and this shows in what I would say is QF's perfect JET record.
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4315 times:
El Al has had more than one accident/crash, as listed below:
DC-4 5/2/1950 skidded off runway although no fatalities
DC-4 24/11/1951 crashed at Zurich...6 people killed
L-149 Connie 27/7/1955 attacked by Bulgarian Air Force fighters with 58 fatalities.
747-258F 4/10/1992 crashed into an apartment building in Amsterdam with 4 fatalities (although one could say this was a Cargo Air Lines flight, it is included in El Al's record as the aircraft was theirs, flying for them, and Cargo Air Lines is a subsidiary of El Al which does not really operate independently of LY)
Boeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4310 times:
Brissie lions, please be careful in jumping to conclusions here! While you're right these crashes in Canada you mentioned did happen, they were under Canadian Pacific Airlines(later CPAir). I think CPDC10-30 meant the record SINCE 1988 when PWA took over CPAir and merged. (they still kept the CP airline code, that's why the PWA and Wardair accidents couldn't be included).
DLMD-11 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 10, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4304 times:
There was one other crash of CPAir in the 1960s which I am all too well aware of as the day after, a BOAC 707 crashed having taken off from the same airport....
On March 4th 1966, CPAir DC-8-43 reg. CF-CPK operating as flight 402 from Hong Kong, in stages, to Vancouver via Tokyo Haneda Airport crashed on approach to Tokyo. The aircraft landed short of the runway, hitting a sea wall, bouncing off it and sliding down the runway. The aircraft then exploded into flames.
64 passengers & crew were killed, while 10 people were seriously injured.
Reason for accident: The pilot initiated too steeper rate of descent. Poor visibility due to fog meant he landed to early.
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4301 times:
I understand what you have said here regarding Canadian Airlines, but even the airline themselves say that they are older than 13 years, so in effect, Canadian Pacific Air Lines = CP Air = Canadian Airlines. But point taken anway, sort of :0)
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 4300 times:
One of the most amazing accidents was one which involved a JAT DC-9-32 YU-AHT, on 26/1/1972, which was blown up in-flight by a bomb. There were 28 people on board the aircraft and there was only 1 survivor, a flight attendant who survived a 15,000 feet fall while in the tail section of the aircraft. A world record to this day, for the highest fall and survive.
Boeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 4298 times:
I'm a little surprised that no one mentioned Ansett, which I thought has had just as spotless a record as Qantas! Is it true?
BTW, about your curious username, is it a favorite footy team of yours or are you actually from Brisbane yet living in the other end of Australia(or vice versa)?
Brissie_lions From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (13 years 2 months 3 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 4298 times:
Ansett (and it's predecessors/subsidiaries), unfortunately, do not have a perfect record.
Here is a list of their crashes/accidents
Airlines of New South Wales
12/12/60 DC-3 Crashed on pilot training flight 3 killed
1/4/65 DC-3 Crashed just after take-off 0 killed
Ansett Airlines
25/3/71 F-27 Destroyed in hangar fire 0 killed
Ansett Airlines of Papua New Guinea
17/7/72 DC-3 Damaged beyond repair 0 on board 0 killed
1/9/72 Shorts Skyvan Crashed in Mt Siluwe 4 killed
Ansett Airways
10/3/46 DC-3 Crashed on climb 25 killed
Ansett-ANA
12/1/56 DC-3 Crashed on final approach 1 killed
30/11/61 Viscount Crashed on climb 15 killed
17/3/65 F27 Crashed on final approach 0 killed
22/9/66 Viscount Crashed after engine fire 24 killed
Australian National Airlines
26/6/50 DC-4 28 killed
16/10/52 DC-4 undershot runway at SYD 0 killed
Butler Air Transport
3/6/47 DC-3 Crashed on training flight 0 killed
15/12/55 DC-3 Crashed after engine failure 0 killed
East West Airlines
4/11/57 DC-3 Crashed after engine failure 0 killed
31/5/74 F27 Crashed on final approach 0 killed
MacRoberton Miller Airlines
31/12/68 Viscount Crash on descent 26 killed
Skywest Airlines
13/5/80 Metro Crashed after engine failure 0 killed
Although these stats may paint a shocking picture, Ansett has, fortunately, has a perfect jet record. The only jet crash involving an Australian operator was on 29/10/91 when a Royal Australian Air Force 707 crashed off Melbourne with the loss of 6 lives.
The 'most' fatal accident in Australian skies was a Trans Australia Airlines F27 on 10/6/60 with the loss of 29, which crashed into the sea after holding off Mackay (in Queensland) for 70mins due to fog.
As to my tag, the Brisbane Lions is my footy team and I live on the other side of the country...weird huh? www.lions.com.au
CPDC10-30 From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2000, 4759 posts, RR: 26 Reply 18, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4273 times:
Boeing 777 is right. I was only mentioning the modern-day Canadian airlines...sorry to confuse people by using CP - but that is still their code.
Boeing 777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 20, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 4272 times:
Little wonder...My parents in Northern Alberta don't feel very comforatable flying on DC-10s at all. That's why my dad chose to take an ANZ 747-400 out of LAX to SYD (nonstop) last time he wanted to go to SYD, rather than be stuck on a CP DC-10-30 from YVR to HNL on the way to SYD.
My mom, being an Englishwoman, is glad they're not flying CP DC-10s to LHR anymore. (She'll be taking a BA flight from YYZ to LHR after connecting from YEG to YYZ on CP this summer.) With the DC-10s gone, CP will be able to maintain its safety record without having to worry about something askew on their DC-10s!
UK FLY From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 21, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 4282 times:
About a year or so ago I got a package from britannia. Inside it had a leaflet with infomation on the airline,
"Safety
At Britannia we pride ourselves on our strict maintanance and service on our aircraft.
We have one of the worlds best safety records with nearly 40 years flying experience"
Then 4 weeks later G-BYAG crashed at gerona.
How much do crashes, like the britannia and southwest damage the airlines reputation?
MEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4117 posts, RR: 37 Reply 22, posted (13 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4257 times:
UK Fly, it is very interesting to see how different people react on publicity about crashes.
UK and US newspapers are a bit more "sensational" to put it mildly, in their approach to accidents and incidents. Tragedy's and incidents can be brought very dramatically.
A good example is Excalibur, a nice airline who didn't hurt a single passenger, had a dramatic publicity after a DC-10 was delayed time after time due to technical snags. Crying passengers who got afraid or who missed their holidays, were frontpage news and broadcasted life...
In the US, intensive media coverage about the Air Florida crash in 1982 and the Valujet crash in 1996 were the cause of the first one bankrupting and the second one having to rename (AirTran). Also the Pan Am and TWA 747 crashes of 1988 and 1996 may also be a factor in the financial troubles; passengers reluctant to fly them.
On the other hand, in many other countries the public don't seem to care much.
Martinair, a Dutch charter company, had two big jets crashed (while their fleet is only 10 or so) in approach accidents. Although the reports blame the airline (pilots felt pressure by the management to avoid diverting in adverse weather conditions). Although both accidents have been extensively covered by Dutch media, the passengers never seem to care and Martinair didn't loose a single passenger. (I also trust Martinair again, I flew them 4 times last year).
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
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