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American Airlines At Denver Stapleton  
User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1993 times:

Anybody out there know when American began service to Denver Stapleton? In looking at both floor plans of the terminal at Stapleton that date around 1980, and also at a UA Services Guide dated 1981, American is not shown as serving DEN. I flew AA into DEN in 1991, so obviously it is sometime between mid-1981 and 1991.

Also, what routes would they have served from DEN at the time of inauguration?

Tom in NO (at MSY)


"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
15 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1974 times:

For some damn reason, I seem to remember trivial nonsense. I remember flying AA in 1981 from YYZ-LAX. The printed timetable I reviewed on the aircraft highlighted new service to DEN in summer 81 and the retirement of the 707.

There you go.




Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3813 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 1935 times:

AA added its first wave of cities from DFW in June of 1981, establishing it's hub at DFW to compete with Braniff, who was already having serious problems at the time. I think another wave of cities from DFW was added in the Fall, and DEN was probably in one of the two.

I seem to remember reading (In Hard Landing, I think) that AA had big expansion plans for DEN around the time Frank Lorezo was merging Texas International and Continental. CO and TI together had a pretty sizable operation at DFW, so AA and CO kind of had a gentlemen's agreement and CO stuck to HOU and DEN, while AA developed DFW and ORD.

In 1998 Continental Express wanted to fly rj's from DAL-CLE and speculation was that AA felt that CO was reneging on the gentleman's agreement. When AA launched DAL-AUS flights in August 1998, they also started some AUS-HOU-LGA trips supposedly as a warning for Continental to stay out of Love Field.

I think that was the gist of what I read in Hard Landing

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineHlywdCatft From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 5321 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1912 times:

I remember reading in a book about Denver International Airport that before the airport was built, there were plans for three hubs at DEN- UA, CO and AA.

According to this book AA wanted to set up a hub there.


User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3813 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 1890 times:

Oops... my bad. What I had read about AA in DEN wasn't in Hard Landing, it was on this website about the original Frontier. The author claims that Frontier was looking for a buyer to outbid Frank Lorenzo, and AA was interested, but backed down.

The article (written in 1987) went on to say:

Speculation was that Lorenzo got to Crandall and reminded him of a few things. Things possibly like "I won't play in your back yard if you don't play in mine." American had announced big plans in the Denver market. No such plans exist today. Continental, while expanding into many back yards hasn't done so in American's two new hub operations. (At the time, DFW and ORD). If this speculation is true, you can bet it wasn't done on the telephone... (ref: the conversation between Crandall and Braniff's Lawerence that caused a major public uproar a few years prior).

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

As stated above, AA added a wave of cities in the early -80s to build its hub-and-spoke system. AA and DL were really the first airlines to understand the cost savings and increased appearent capacity with out actually increasing it, of the hub-and-spoke, and so while in 1980, AA mostly flew to the East Coast and the Southwest, by 1981, they had pretty much added cities in most of the country.

In fact, in 1980, they did not service MCI, my home city, but by 1981, they were. They added dozens of cities and effectively doubled capacity while the number of aircraft they owned actually went down. Now, of course, they've got about 1000 a/c and serve, -what?- over 200 cities?

it is interesting to note that Branniff already had a natural hub out of DFW at the time and dropped it because they didn't realize how much a time and cost saver it was.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineElwood64151 From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 2477 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 1829 times:

As stated above, AA added a wave of cities in the early -80s to build its hub-and-spoke system. AA and DL were really the first airlines to understand the cost savings and increased appearent capacity with out actually increasing it, of the hub-and-spoke, and so while in 1980, AA mostly flew to the East Coast and the Southwest, by 1981, they had pretty much added cities in most of the country.

In fact, in 1980, they did not service MCI, my home city, but by 1981, they were. They added dozens of cities and effectively doubled capacity while the number of aircraft they owned actually went down. Now, of course, they've got about 1000 a/c and serve, -what?- over 200 cities?

it is interesting to note that Branniff already had a natural hub out of DFW at the time and dropped it because they didn't realize how much a time and cost saver it was.



Those who fail to learn history are doomed to repeat it in summer school.
User currently offlineYyz717 From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 16248 posts, RR: 56
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 1798 times:

AA did make an announcement in the early 80's that DEN would become their 3rd hub (after DFW and ORD). Their presence at DEN at the time was very small (<10 flights/day).

Anyway, they changed their strategy and opened RDU and BNA hubs in the mid-to-late 80's instead.



Panam, TWA, Ansett, Eastern.......AC next? Might be good for Canada.
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5480 posts, RR: 15
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

In hindsight, I think it was a good move by AA not to hub there and let CO do the hubbing. Continental is pretty much done with Denver(do they even still have the maintenence base at DIA?), while AA still has a strong presence in ORD.

Say, if AA had hubbed at Denver, what would their route structure look like? To me, Denver just doesn't seem as a very feasible place to hub out of once you've got ORD and DFW.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineBA From United States of America, joined May 2000, 11153 posts, RR: 59
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 1735 times:

Blink182,

Continental still has it's maintenance base in DEN.

It's true that AA did want to hub in DEN, but realized that competition would be extremely tough. So I guess they changed there minds.

Look what happened to CO in DEN.

DEN is probably the best geographically located city for starting up a major East-West hub. It's not surprise why AA would want it.




"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 1721 times:

I flew American from ORD to DEN in June of 1986. At that time they only operated MD-80's to DEN from DFW and ORD. It seems strange now, but I remember that originally we were supposed to go IAD-ORD-DEN without an aircraft change. At that last minute they made an aircraft swap and we had to change planes. The wierd part was I could swear to it they said "serving Denver and continuing to Palm Springs." I know it makes no sense, and I cannot find any evidence of AA ever serving PSP from DEN, but that's how my mind works.

User currently offlineTom in NO From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 7194 posts, RR: 32
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 4 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 1623 times:

I was going to ask which gates AA operated at before concourse E opened in 1987, but I answered my own question: it looks like they shared gates D26, D28, and D30 with Piedmont.

Tom in NO (at MSY)



"The criminal ineptitude makes you furious"-Bruce Springsteen, after seeing firsthand the damage from Hurricane Katrina
User currently offlineDiatraveler From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1529 times:

BA,

Continental does not have a maintenance operation at DIA anymore. Mayor Webb killed that notion when he nixed allowing Continental to retain a maintenance operation at Stapleton after the opening of DIA. The Continental hanger you see at DIA is predominately leased by Frontier for their heavy C-checks, etc.


User currently offlineCody From United States of America, joined May 1999, 1932 posts, RR: 9
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 1521 times:

From what I have been told by a Continental Operations Manager who was originally from Denver, the only thing left of the Denver hub days are 13 mechanics who do line maintenance on the ramp. As mentioned above no hangar work. She even told me that most of the ramp service is contractual. Apparently most of the former Denver employees have a "dream" that CAL will return to Denver. She did not see it happening anytime soon though. I wasn not aware of this, but apparently Denver reservations is also gone.

User currently offlineJsnww81 From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 2030 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 1493 times:

Continental scaled their Stapleton hub back quickly and dramatically, as I recall. After the Frontier acquisition in the late 1980s, Continental took over almost all of Frontier's old Concourse D, except for a small portion belonging to TWA and Eastern. This was in addition to Concourse C, where they were the sole tenant. For a long time in the late 1980s-early 1990s, their DEN hub was larger than United's.

By 1993 or so, though, things began to come apart... almost all of the rapidly-shrinking mainline flights were moved back over to Concourse C, and Concourse D was given over to Continental Express. The Denver hub was gone by the time operations moved to DIA.

On my last trip through Stapleton, in March 1993, I arrived on a Sun Country 727 into a gate on Concourse D. I remember there were Continental logos on all the gates and on the walls, but no CO aircraft anywhere (there were plenty on Concourse C though.) Concourse D seemed very abandoned to me - and many of the shops and restaurants had in fact closed and were boarded up. Very ghost-townish.


User currently offlineChautauquasaab From United States of America, joined Oct 1999, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 3 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 1429 times:

Anyone remember "TORQUE" at Stapleton? United had an employee incentive system for converting Continental customers to UAL. The back of some buttons had the old CAL logo with a large "screw" drawn as if it had been driven into it. As I recall, TORQUE was an acronym for "Try Our Real Quality United Experience" but was a not so thinly veiled program to "screw" Continental.

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