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Cathay Pacific Looking Into 747-400QLR  
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 10665 times:

It seems that Cathay Pacific is increasingly interested in Boeing's 747-400QLR along with several other airlines. A fuesalage plug and more fuel capacity are being added by Boeing to meet their demands.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
136 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10502 times:

Other airlines are China Airlines, Singapore International Airlines, Korean Airlines and Qantas.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 2, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10487 times:

Cathay is always looking into new versions of aircraft manufacturers come out with, like the A380, A345, 747-400X, 747-400ER, 747-400QXLR and now the 747-400QLR, as well as the 777-200ER, 777-200LR and 777-300ER. Does not mean we will buy them all. Just window shopping, that's all.

User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 3, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10470 times:

Yes, you're right....and you just repeated what CX747 said...he never said CX was going to buy it, he said they are looking into it. It also seems they are working with Boeing to refine the potential product...a little more than window shopping.



Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 10463 times:

Cwapilot,

I guess you know many things about how CX do their business ?



User currently offlineBOEING747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10452 times:

What about Thai Airways? They have the most diverse fleet of all airlines so far up to now but haven't ordered any 345, 346, 744ER, 744QXLR, 772LR, and 773ER yet. I hope they will order these exciting new aircraft soon.

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 10434 times:

Cathay is one of those Asian airlines with a habit of bending over completely backwards for RollsRoyce, no matter the costs/consequences... so Boeing had better have an RR option (if not exclusivity, as was previously contemplated) for the 744XQLR if they want CX to buy it.

User currently offlineJaws707 From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 708 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 10386 times:

A few months ago I remember reading that CX was looking into the possibility of leasing 6-8 A380's. Has there been any news regarding this? They definatley have some routes that can support it, so I think we will eventually be seeing the A380 in CX colors.

User currently offlineNa From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 10736 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10358 times:

Being one of the world´s top ten airlines, and seeing that their newest 747-400 is already 8 years old, its about time CX finalises its future plans for the top end of their fleet, don´t you think?
They´re for sure a hot candidate to be one of the next airlines to place orders for Jumbo aircraft.


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10310 times:

I agree that CX wants aircraft whether made by Boeing or Airbus to have Rolls Royce engines as options. That is why they went for the RR Trent 556 powered A340-600 over the exclusive GE90-115 powered 777-300ER.

User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 10304 times:

Sorry Tedski,

There are many rumours they WILL get the 777-300ER.


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10177 times:

I heard they declined the 777-300ER because of the exclusive GE90 and ordered more RR Trent 772 powered A330s.

User currently offlineCwapilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 1166 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10110 times:

Ignorant as usual. I didn't claim to know anything more than anyone else about CX's business. All I pointed out is that one poster is arguing with the other, yet merely repeating what the other said. And, secondly, working with a company to further refine a product is more than mere window shopping, whether it's CX or not. It doesn't mean CX will buy them, but it does mean they are looking into it further than some are willing to admit.


Southside Irish...our two teams are the White Sox and whoever plays the Cubs!
User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1001 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 10064 times:

tedski, how can the 333 and the 773ER be compared?. even though you obviously have a problem with the GE90, don`t rule out the 773ER for cathay. Rollout today!! one good-looking bird, by the way

raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16347 posts, RR: 84
Reply 14, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

I don't think TEDSKI stated he had a problem with the GE-90. I think he was mentioning a well known fact that Cathay has problems with anything not RR powered.

While I agree, I also wonder about the A340-300s Cathay has. They're CFMI powered...

N


User currently offline0A340 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 266 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9946 times:

Gigneil ...

You're commiting the 'sin' of mentioning the A340-300 and a certain member in the same post!!!

Be prepared to hear how much this member dislikes the 'slow climbing rate' and 'problem to complete take-off with full payload'...

 Wink/being sarcastic

Sorry, you asked for it!

George


User currently offlineBoeing767-300 From Australia, joined Sep 2001, 659 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 9945 times:

...and after operating GE-French CFMs on A343s why wouldn't Cathay try the big GE90-115s as offered on the 300ER.





User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6605 posts, RR: 55
Reply 17, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 9905 times:

Our fleet manager has just returned from Boeing after having given the 777-300ER a good look. It would not be surprising if we ordered these, although we may just order more normal 773s. I am fairly confident that we will be sending our 777s to Europe within a year or two. Moscow is the latest rumour. I doubt we will buy any more 747s unless they are freighters. Our CEO hates Airbuses but we will not fly twin engined aircraft across the ocean. Airbuses are costing a lot of money in maintenance and as a result the engineers all hate Airbuses too. Expect more Boeing purchases. There, that's all I know.

User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9835 times:

and I'm looking into buying a new BMW 540...that doesn't mean I'm going to buy one, now, does it???

User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4454 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9837 times:

I thank you for the insider info from the CEO Cx flyboy. It is good to hear from you. I find it interesting that the current CEO is not an Airbus fan, and that aircraft are more expensive to operate than the Boeing stable mates in maintenance terms. (Sorry but a small smile here with the quote, "You can pay now or pay later, either way your going to pay.) How is life in the 777?

747-400QLR & Cathay Pacific: From what I have heard and read though, CX is more than just "window shopping" in regards to the 747-400QLR. They are actually defining the aircraft to meet their requirements and Boeing is listening. Cathay is pressing Boeing for 8,000nm range along with pax and cargo increase. Boeing is meeting the demands with a 80' plug forward of the wing which will allow for the demanded increase in pax & cargo along with increasing the size of the horizontal and vertical stabalizer fuel tanks. 10 airframes also be the what the initial order will look like.

777-300ER & Cathay Pacific: Let's stop the rumor about CX and their problems with the 777-300ER not having RR engines. INITIALLY, they were skeptical of the situation, but have now come full circle due to the tremendous deals GE offers and the fact that the engine is a winner.




"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineSllevin From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 3376 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9801 times:

"meeting the demands with a 80' plug forward of the wing"

Wow! That's going to be heck of a stretch to balance!  Smile

Steve


User currently offlineTK From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 9800 times:

HATE is a strong word. Perhaps, preference towards one thing over another, is a better description. Nothing's perfect. The fact is that both Europe and America builds great jetliners and each shows advantages in various aspects over the other. Airbus and Boeing both act as catalysts to promote each other's productivity and creativity to give the world's airlines a better fleet of airplanes. Biases towards certain things may be more pronounced in different locations but IMO should not be used as a be-all and end-all outlook of the whole.

TK


User currently offlineTEDSKI From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9796 times:

Gigneil, don't pay any attention to OA340 he doesn't know the quality and performance of Boeing made jets which why carriers and passengers prefer the 777 over the A340-300.

User currently offlineBrons2 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3013 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9775 times:

Boeing is meeting the demands with a 80' plug forward of the wing which will allow for the demanded increase in pax & cargo along with increasing the size of the horizontal and vertical stabalizer fuel tanks. 10 airframes also be the what the initial order will look like.

An 80 foot stretch! That oughta put the A380 to shame on capacity! What will it take to get it off the ground? 4 GE90-115's? lol.

 Big grin



Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
User currently offlineTK From Canada, joined Oct 2000, 247 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9772 times:

TEDSKI,

You said, "Passengers prefer the 777 over A340-300."

My question is, do you have any evidence to substantiate this claim?

TK


25 Post contains images N949WP : TK, don't fall into TEDSKI's trap!! '949
26 Post contains links NWA742 : My question is, do you have any evidence to substantiate this claim? Almost every survey I've ever read of passenger preference of an aircraft, the 77
27 TK : NWA, If you know anything about statistics, then you will know that surveys are among the most UNRELIABLE forms of statistics. They are useful in cert
28 Post contains images Gigneil : Heh, its fun to be fought over. I've never been on an A340-300. I've been on one of US's A330-300s, and I thoroughly enjoyed the experience. Same plan
29 0A340 : "Gigneil, don't pay any attention to OA340 he doesn't know the quality and performance of Boeing made jets which why carriers and passengers prefer th
30 Post contains images Dynkrisolo : Cx_flyboy: I found your comment about your CEO to be exaggerated. How long has he been in that position? Around 5, right? Under him, CX had added new
31 N79969 : I heard that A300s are maintenance pigs but I did not realize that the newer Airbus also have this characteristic. I find it interesting that the CX C
32 0A340 : N79969 "I heard that A300s are maintenance pigs but I did not realize that the newer Airbus also have this characteristic " Dear N79969, it would be i
33 N79969 : OA340, Note I used the term "heard." I have a cousin who works in MRO and has worked on many types of aircraft. He told me that the A300 and ATR42 are
34 0A340 : N79969, Thanks for agreeing with me that your claim is totally unfounded. You admit that there are no data backing this up, no other proof than your c
35 N79969 : OA340, I'm not sure why I'm responding to you. I trust my cousin's word. I would say my claim has basis in fact. You can go dig up spreadsheets and wa
36 Cx flyboy : We have 180 Minute ETOPS so that is not an issue. Our managers are simply very reluctant in flying a twin over such a large expanse of Ocean, and so a
37 N79969 : Cx_Flyboy, Easy there. I think a CEO's personal preferences can carry a lot of weight. For example, I don't see Gordon Bethune buying Airbus no matter
38 Gigneil : I think it goes pretty easily to say that while a lot of those carriers do fly ETOPS routes frequently, not a lot of them fly routes that are of the s
39 B-HOP : HK people do NOT understand the concept of ETOPS, they think if you are flying accross the ocean, is 4 better than 2. I remember my mum said to me in
40 N79969 : ETOPS is usually a good business practice as well as a validated operational practice. I don't how different HKG's geography (for transpacific route p
41 ConcordeBoy : Well, for one thing... HKG can still be flown from the USA under ETOPS180/207 if granted, but MEL (as a south Pacific destination) cannot receive high
42 Hamlet69 : Gigneil, Actually, many airlines fly ETOPS flights over topogophy that is extremely similar, if not identical, to CX's routes. Continental, China Sout
43 N79969 : Hamlet69, Do you know why Cathay is that conservative about using twins over the Pacific? There have many other conservative, safety conscious compani
44 Cx flyboy : We are almost certainly getting A300 freighters for Air Hong Kong/DHL to fly. I am guessing they will be in the new yellow DHL colours. We will be get
45 CX747 : I would like to correct my 80' plug and restate that it is 80". My apologies.
46 Rai : If CX decides to purchase this plane, where would they fly it to?
47 JAL : When can the first order for the new 747 variant be expected?
48 N79969 : Thanks Cx_Flyboy. It seems that culture is a big reason for Cathay's policy on ETOPS. That is interesting.
49 Dynkrisolo : What Cx_flyboy has pointed out is a very common trend among Asian airlines. I would say Japan Airlines and All Nippon Airways used to be even more con
50 Hamlet69 : N79969, I have been aware of CX's conservatism for some time, however, I would not be the one to ask as to the reasoning. Indeed, Cx flyboy's comments
51 Cx flyboy : I know that the chances of both engines failing due to independant reasons are next to none, but tell me that if you are flying in the middle of the P
52 Boeing nut : Cx Flyboy, Is Cathay considering the A345 at all?
53 Rai : You guys never answered my question about where CX plans to fly this plane if they get it...
54 Jupiter2 : They would probably use it to LHR/LAX/JFK, the current routes thay have where a little bit of extra capacity would help, passenger wise, but where the
55 Cx flyboy : Boeing_nut, I have not heard anything about us being interested in the A340-500, but I am guessing that we have looked at it thoroughly and would not
56 Gigneil : cx_flyboy, The A340-500 is about 4 meters longer than the A340-300, and has a typical range of 8,650nm with full pax load. They say it carries 313 pas
57 ZK-NBT : It is strange how they use the A333 to SYD and MEL now rather than the A343 then, is it only because of the new J class cabins? I heard once that CX w
58 CXCPA : CX Flyboy, If CX managements hate Airbus, why CX have so many Airbus fleets? And Cathay will have Airbus 340-600 soon. It is quite strange. A330-300 c
59 Cx flyboy : CXCPA, If you had read what I said, you would see that I said our CEO does not personally like Airbuses. Our management like Airbuses, their operating
60 Gigneil : cx_flyboy, What problems with the A346 are you referring to? N
61 Cx flyboy : Well I am not an Airbus pilot and I was told by my friend who is one, although he had not fully heard what was going on, but as he understood it, ther
62 ConcordeBoy : ... that, and while the A346 can fly HKG-NYC with as much (and somewhat more) payload than the 772ER which currently flies that run; it can NOT howeve
63 Boeing nut : ... that, and while the A346 can fly HKG-NYC with as much (and somewhat more) payload than the 772ER which currently flies that run; it can NOT howeve
64 TEDSKI : Another reason CX might go for either the A340-500 or 747-400QLR is because they can be ordered with Rolls Royce engines.
65 Gigneil : Wait, I thought RR had been publically disgusted with Boeing because Boeing was refusing to offer the QLR with RR engines? Didn't they release somethi
66 TEDSKI : Who knows what is going on between Rolls Royce and Boeing? Maybe they can offer the Trent 600 series as an option on the 747-400QLR?
67 CXCPA : CX flyboy, It is very strange. Why do you know CX management personally hate Airbus? I think it is just your personal opinions, right?
68 Hkgspotter1 : CXCPA, I think you are very strange, how the hell do you know where Cx_flyboy got this info from ?? Stop posting silly messages.
69 Cx flyboy : CXCPA, Please read what I write before you post. It is not my personal opinion. I know that our CEO does not like Airbuses, but it does not mean that
70 Kaitak : This week's Flight International has a piece referring to plans by Boeing to offer a completely new version of the 747, the -800X, which will be "more
71 Gigneil : With only 286 seats on their -600, why not order -500s? I think they could likely fit 286 seats on in relative comfort... maybe not. Is it a cargo thi
72 CXCPA : Purchasing aircraft is an important job. CEO should involve in this job. I don't know why the CEO do not pursuade the relative departments stop purcha
73 Cx flyboy : CXCPA, The CEO should rightly not let his personal feelings into something as important as an aircraft purchase. I like Tristars, but if I become CEO
74 Post contains images Hkgspotter1 : I like the Global Express so if I was CEO Cathay would have about 800 of them !!
75 B-HOP : CEO of KMB (Kowloon Motor Bus) also like Volvo, but we have Dennis, Man, Neoplan. Regards Kev
76 Klaus : Interesting to read that at least some pilots see ETOPS with a little more reservation that some accounting departments do... On another point: I´m s
77 RayChuang : If CX wants the 747-400QLR, there's only one route where this makes sense: HKG-JFK. It certainly doesn't make sense for HKG-SFO or HKG-LAX, where the
78 777236ER : Lol, it's great how someone who actually works in the company is branded as someone with subjective personal preferences (read: liar) just because wha
79 CXCPA : B-HOP, You are wrong! Volvo double-decker buses actually are Leyland, a British Company which was bought by Volvo few years ago. And the CEO of KMB do
80 N79969 : Ray, I think the extra cargo lift capability of the QLR would be useful on any of the routes you mention that are served by 744s. CX_Flyboy, A couple
81 Post contains images Klaus : 777236ER: Lol, it's great how someone who actually works in the company is branded as someone with subjective personal preferences (read: liar) just b
82 N79969 : Klaus, Cathay's Airbus aircraft might be maintenance pigs and they could sensibly still order them. Airbus has a reputation for very good customer ser
83 ConcordeBoy : It could just be that a few of Cathay's Airbuses are lemons... and nothing more. Remember the incident where EK and SQ were delivered Trent892s which
84 Hamlet69 : Cx flyboy, I can see where you're coming from. OTOH, a nightmare of mine is being in the middle of the Pacific, 3-4 hours away from the nearest divers
85 N79969 : ConcordeBoy, It is statistically unlikely that Cathay would have disproportionately high mx problems relative to other operators although it is certai
86 F4N : To all: This post is really getting to be a hoot. First off, a participant who actually flies commercial liners for a respected international carrier
87 N79969 : F4N: Agreed...my sentiments exactly.
88 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : N79969, Trent800 engines, though by far the optimum choice for the 777A market ships... does not stand up to the high centrifugal forces of the high90
89 Hamlet69 : ConcordeBoy, While there may have been periphery influences on BA's decision to go with RR for their last batch of 777s, the primary reason is their c
90 Gigneil : Speaking of Trent operators and shutdown rates... Thai is withdrawing their 777-300s from ETOPS service due to a SD too close to the ETOPS limits... r
91 Cx flyboy : Wow, go to sleep at night and by the morning this thread has got interesting hasn't it! OK first of all, N79969, Copied from our manual regarding engi
92 Cx flyboy : As for the Airbus maintenance thing, I don't have any figures and have no proof of anything. You may choose to take my word for it or ignore me comple
93 Gigneil : I wonder if all airlines that operate A330s and A340s encounter the same issues? This really is the first I've heard of them having such major operati
94 CXCPA : If the cost of maintenance is very high, how so many airlines order so many Airbuse? Do they want to waste money? Airbuses may be cheaper, but the cos
95 CXCPA : If the cost of maintenance is very high, how so many airlines order so many Airbuse? Do they want to waste money? Airbuses may be cheaper, but the cos
96 N949WP : Let (sic) think about the consequence of that staff if the relations between CX and Airbus become worse because of his comment. This is the most sense
97 Gigneil : I'm pretty sure Cathay and RR co-own an aircraft service center in HK, similar to the one in Singapore that's co-owned by Singapore Airlines and RR. i
98 Post contains images Klaus : Hamlet69: I can see where you're coming from. OTOH, a nightmare of mine is being in the middle of the Pacific, 3-4 hours away from the nearest diversi
99 Post contains images Klaus : Cx flyboy: Even now, speaking to the engineers when we fly to outports, we often hear comments like "Oh, I am glad you're a 777 today and not an Airbu
100 CX747 : CX Flyboy: I would just like to thank you for your extremely professional comments and for taking the time to expand upon your Airbus/Maintenance disc
101 Cx flyboy : CX747, Thanks for your kind words. CXCPA, As for you, I don't even know why I bother! What is it that you don't like about me? Are you threatening me?
102 CXCPA : CX flyboy, Do you know that why the mass media have so much story to write to say something bad to a organization/person. It is because there are some
103 Oxygen : Largest Aviation scandal in Hong Kong History - Cathay CEO suspected of being a Boeing Fan !!!
104 N949WP : Personnel announcement : CXCPA appoints self as Airliners.net resident media consultant !!
105 Post contains images Cathay Pacific : Give me a break!!!!
106 Ejazz : Concorde Boy: Remember the incident where EK and SQ were delivered Trent892s which continually shred their fan blades due to high-vortex resettlement
107 Hkgspotter1 : CXCPA, It would seem there are people having a very good talk here so what you have to say is not needed. Go away. Kind Regards Daryl
108 N79969 : Thanks, ConcordeBoy for the great explanation about Trents and Ejazz for clarification. I also want to thank Cx_Flyboy for the very informative posts.
109 N79969 : I do want to add again that Airbus support and service is supposedly excellent. I have a friend that works in the finance department for a major and r
110 ConcordeBoy : "The only inservice bulletin they could think of was regarding the HP stage 1 new casings coating, Metco 320, which has nothing to do with the fan. "
111 Post contains links Brons2 : Ejazz, perhaps you should read this about the Trent 8XX series fan blades. http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/tech-rep/8-01/index.cfm There's even a pic
112 Hamlet69 : Klaus, "Question is, are the 340s and 747s really still that far behind the ETOPS-certified twins as they might have been at the beginning of the ETOP
113 Ejazz : Brons2, Thank you for the link. I have already read the Australian ATSB report on the EK incident. What I am trying to correct is the statement that S
114 TEDSKI : Because Singapore Airlines is very happy with the RR Trents on their 777s is why they ordered more 777-200ERs to replace their GE/SNECMA CFM56-5C powe
115 Gigneil : Was it their love of Rolls-Royce was the deciding factor in replacing the A340-300? I'm pretty sure Boeing's super-offer that included buying them off
116 Dynkrisolo : TEDSKI: Don't spread lies. SQ ordered the 772ER to replace the 343 has nothing to do with the engines. Same with the 345. When SQ ordered the 345, GE
117 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : "Personally, I would be more inclined to take the word of Singapore Airlines Engineering on Singapore Airlines Engineering issues rather than the word
118 Post contains images Raggi : for a thread with a topic united airline would have been likely to start, this has turned into a very interesting thread indeed.. tedski, how many tim
119 CX747 : Well, this is quite a thread to say the least! There is new news out now that Boeing is also looking into a 747-800X! It seems that new life will once
120 Cx flyboy : Raggi I am on the 777-200 and -300. (no differences)
121 Post contains images Klaus : Cx flyboy: I am afraid that I cannot give exact details or figures. What I say has been based on what I hear about Airbuses just about every other day
122 Post contains images Klaus : Klaus: Question is, are the 340s and 747s really still that far behind the ETOPS-certified twins as they might have been at the beginning of the ETOPS
123 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : You seem to forget that the quad's probability should be halved considering that a 744 probably cannot continue to cross the ocean loaded and on one e
124 Post contains images Klaus : ConcordeBoy: You seem to forget that the quad's probability should be halved considering that a 744 probably cannot continue to cross the ocean loaded
125 Post contains images ConcordeBoy : That brings up a somewhat off-subject question that I've always wanted to know the answer to.... Can a 747/A340 take off on only 2 engines? I know twi
126 Post contains images Klaus : I guess we´re firmly in tech/ops territory by now. Maybe it´s time we packed and moved to a fresh thread over there... Nevertheless... ConcordeBoy:
127 Hamlet69 : Klaus, "The "multi-engined" models (>2) do now and could then continue to "spend" some of their intrinsically higher safety margin on more direct rout
128 Areopagus : Klaus, the relative safety of the quad vs twin in your scenario is dependent upon what you assume for the probability of restart. If the probability o
129 Klaus : Hamlet69: With LROPS, the various regulatory agencies are recognizing the gains made during the past 2 decades in engine reliablity, and that it is no
130 Post contains images Klaus : Areopagus: Klaus, the relative safety of the quad vs twin in your scenario is dependent upon what you assume for the probability of restart. If the pr
131 Continental : Wouldn't be suprised to see Cathay get the 747-400QLR, they are already a pretty loyal customer to Boeing! Continental
132 Areopagus : Klaus: My guess is that - depending on exact model and loading - most quads would still be able to cover substantial distances on a single engine and
133 Areopagus : On the other hand, if a quad has 3 dead engines, they have almost certainly succumbed to common-mode failure, and there is not much reason to believe
134 Post contains images Klaus : Areopagus: I would think that if a 747 is caught far out to sea with only one healthy engine, it should be able to make it back to a coastal airport.
135 Post contains images Hamlet69 : Klaus, "Statistics isn´t as simple as that. A risk doesn´t suddenly vanish just because there are other, larger risks at the same time!" Not once di
136 Post contains images Klaus : Hamlet69: Not once did I say that the risk had vanished. Well... When you´re claiming that a twin and a quad with identical build and maintenance qua
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