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KLM Place Firm A330 Order  
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

After the LOI it was already almost certain that KLM would order the A330. This morning KLM confirmed ordering 8 A330. Delivery will start in April 2005 due to the fact KLM hasn't decided yet on which engine to take.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHkgspotter1 From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4463 times:

Very good news, they will look nice in the KLM scheme.

User currently offlineDutchDeltaDude From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4408 times:

According to the press release, it is 6 firm orders, not 8.

Also, KLM has taken an option on another 18 A330 aircraft.

Question: just two months ago, KLM placed an order with Boeing for the B777. What differences are there between the A330 and the B777? Why would KLM want to fly both aircraft?


User currently offlineSkystar From Australia, joined Jan 2000, 1363 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4401 times:

Why do CX, MH and AF do that too?

User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4402 times:

retouched Picture from Brazilian jetside.com



KLM 747-400, 777-200ER, A330-200

Great mix I think.

All able to fly most long haul destinations with substantial cargo from AMS.


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5051 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4395 times:

DutchDeltaDude,

Then reasons KLM ordered the A330-200 are quite simple: for many of their routes, mostly the ones on which the 767 is used today, the 777 would be too large and heavy, it would be overkill. The A330-200 is considerably smaller, but still has sufficient range and, above all, enough cargo capacity (the lack of cargo capacity appears to be the main reason KLM wants to get rid of its 767s). So the A330 was obviously the best choice for this segment.


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

Scorpio correct, I heard 767 replaced A310 because of lack of range (atlantic)
I gues now A330 replaces 767 because of better range & cargo.
#seats 747/772/332 : 400/320/250 good build up IMO ...


User currently offlineUdo From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 4179 times:

Difference between A330-200 and B777-200: about 60 (SIXTY) seats. A332 competes with B767 only, not the B777. I hope anybody will realize that one day...


Regards
Udo


User currently offline9V-SVC From Singapore, joined Oct 2001, 1797 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4085 times:

This is great news .


 Smile



Airliners is the wings of my life.
User currently offlineLarspl From Netherlands, joined Apr 2002, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4080 times:

i also heard the following rumour: they only ordered these a330 so boeing will drop the prices on the 777's. eventually the a330 would be leased out to others.

L



facebook.com/ddaclassicairlines
User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5051 posts, RR: 44
Reply 10, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4063 times:

Larspl,

That has to be the funniest rumor I've heard in quite a while! That would be the first time I've heard of an airline ordering planes with the intention of NOT keeping them...


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Scorpio,

I don't know if that rumor is true. But Singapore Airlines does that routinely. They purchased a lot of 777s for SALE and not for their own direct use.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4014 times:

i also heard the following rumour: they only ordered these a330 so boeing will drop the prices on the 777's. eventually the a330 would be leased out to others.

Absultely not true as they first ordered the B777 (firm order in May 2002) and then the A330 (only just today). However you won't see them on the Boeing site as they're part of an order placed by ILFC, the leasing company which will lease the B777 to KLM.

N79969, KLM doesn't have any leasing firm there's no gain for KLM to follow such a strategy.

the lack of cargo capacity appears to be the main reason KLM wants to get rid of its 767s

Or better, KLM wants to get rid of the LD2 containers which aren't compatible with the LD3 conatiners which fit in all the other wide bodies (Yes I know that LD3 fits into a B767, but only at a loss)


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5051 posts, RR: 44
Reply 13, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4008 times:

N79969,

The comparison to SIA makes little sense, as SIA has a leasing arm, SALE, so it's only normal for them to order planes for that leasing arm. SIA also makes it very clear, when ordering planes, that they will go to SALE. KLM does NOT have a leasing arm, and has clearly announced its intention to operate the A330.


User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3996 times:

Right, that's why I wrote SALE. Singarpore Aircraft Leasing...

I doubt the rumor myself; I think KLM will fly their own 332s. But KLM could lease aircraft out without a leasing arm.


User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3987 times:

So, I take it these machines will fly to destinations like YVR, ATL and the ME?

User currently offlineArsenal@LHR From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2001, 7792 posts, RR: 19
Reply 16, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3980 times:
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My bet is on the PW engines for KLM's A330-200's, looks like PW engines in the KLM A330 picture above.



In Arsene we trust!!
User currently offlineN79969 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3966 times:

I think there is no way that PW will get this deal. They were the first company eliminated in the 777 engine competition. KLM is diehard GE.

User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5051 posts, RR: 44
Reply 18, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3963 times:

Arsenal,

The picture you see is in no way official, it's from a site which specialises in making fake pictures of planes. I would be highly surprised if KLM chose PW engines for the A330, considering that ALL their other widebodies have GE CF6 engines, and they've already selected GE for the 777s as well.


User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

All the A330 will be leased A330's and KLM doesn't lease out its "own" aircraft (tecnically KLM doesn't own any aircraft as they're all leased from various leasing companies) to other airlines anymore.

The A330 will be going to the Middle East (except AMM, BEY and DAM) Western Africa and will porbably end up on AMS-LHR for test flights (as usual)

BTW first KLM B777 expected late next year


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2581 posts, RR: 13
Reply 20, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Keesje,

Indeed quite ironic.
KLM ordered the A310 way back in the eighties, mainly for their cargo capacity. They replaced the A310 by the 767 because the 767 had much better range. Then they found out that the 767 cargo capacity was quite disappointing. And now they are replacing the 767 by the A330 because the 767 doesn't have the cargo capacity!

The 777/330 combination is getting quite popular these days!

Mr. Ford once sold his T-Ford like this: "You can have it in any colour as long as it's black!"
KLM purchasing department: "Mr Noël Forgeard, please feel free to deliver the goods equipped with any kind of engine, as long as it has GE all over it...".

PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlineJrebel From Sweden, joined Aug 2000, 174 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3925 times:

It would appear that the 744ERFs and 777s will be delivered with a new livery, according to a post on AirlineCrew.net.

johan


User currently offlineRaggi From Norway, joined Oct 2000, 1005 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

kl has talked about nw ordering the 330 as well, and that it would open up new perspectives in the alliance in terms of maintenance and operation.. so maybe pratt can land this...
but my bet is the 72K CF6-80E1 for kl`s new birds


raggi



Stick & Rudder
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4477 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3918 times:

KLM ordered the A310 way back in the eighties, mainly for their cargo capacity.

PW100, KLM ordered the A310 because of the LD3 container and moreover because the B767-300ER wasn't on the market (or to be delivered soon don't know exactly which one). Should the B767-300ER be on the market and/or be deleiverable soon, they wouldn't have ordered the A310 (only available medium range airliner suitable for the European and Western African flights).

BTW too bad for P&W that the deal between United Technologies and KLM never materialised (then the chances of P&W getting the engine order would be greater).


User currently offlineGerardo From Spain, joined May 2000, 3481 posts, RR: 30
Reply 24, posted (12 years 1 month 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

Little correction, LJ:

the KLM B777 order is splitted. 4 B772 are ordered directly at Boeing and listed there, the rest will be delivered via ILFC, as you pointed out.

Regards
Gerardo



dominguez(dash)online(dot)ch ... Pushing the limits of my equipment
25 Post contains images S.p.a.s. : Hey Keesje, Haven´t you seen the KLM 777 at jetsite? Here it goes.. together with the 340 Best regards and thanks for sharing our photos with the A.n
26 Coronado : What are the legalities of NWA and KLM intermixing their A330 fleets shifting who is operating them on a seasonal basis? It is clearly a North Atlanti
27 N79969 : Mixing and matching aircraft would be a real pain in the ass and probably cost prohibitive. US carriers must list their entire fleet on the operating
28 Arsenal@LHR : What engines has NW ordered on their A330's? KLM's decision might be swayed by NW's engine selection.
29 9V-SVC : NW ordered PW-powered engines . But somehow I think they will stick to GE engines since the rest of the fleet is powered by GE .
30 Lubcha132 : I dunno, i think the A310 situation is going to happen again.
31 Coronado : Are they looking forward to change in laws such as EEC striking down European bilaterals and trading that for an opening of US rules, with the effect
32 RayChuang : I think besides the fact the A330-200 can carry LD3 containers, the A332 has a maximum range of 6,600 nautical miles. That's more than enough to fly K
33 Jrebel : According to an article in a newsletter for KLM Flying Dutchman members in South Africa, the airline is investigating whether there is a business case
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