Just read the above link. I don't know what it is like to be flightcrew at Cathay, but I don't think it right that members of IFALPA/Cathay Pacific issue what is in my eyes, a thinly veiled threat not to join Cathay, or else (the 'else' meaning being stigmatised by your fellow workers.)
I don't buy the 'replacement worker' bs either.
I appreciate Cathay's management might not be the best in the world, and that IFALPA/Cathay crew members may have a justifiable grudge to bear, but shouldn't there be a better way of resolving this conflict than threatening prospective pilots with language such as
'With the best will in the world and any number of rules written by the company, it is going to be difficult to operate effectively with someone who views you as a ‘replacement worker’. Would you be happy to operate in this sort of environment? Never mind the tension that might exist outside of the operation. Most trips involve social time together with other crew members, even if it is conversation in the cruise'.... ??
'The HKAOA will not provide support for replacement pilots in any circumstances whereby it would normally act on behalf of a member pilot. Such support is a major ingredient of a pilot’s airline career and includes assistance in case of accident or incident, discipline and grievance, legal representation in foreign countries, personal insurance, family support, salary negotiation and contract protection.'
I don't know the truth surrounding the sacking of all those pilots, but are these kinds of threats going to solve the problem?
De727ups From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 814 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2423 times:
The pilot group is doing what they feel they need to do under the circumstances, I see nothing wrong with it. The unjustified firing of a number of pilots who just happen to be involved with the union leadership would never be allowed in the US. I sure as heck don't have a problem with the pilot group not providing benefits to those who ignor the recruitment ban and come to work there in the present situation....why should they? If the company wants to hire pilots outside the union, they are certainly able to do that, but don't expect the current pilot group to welcome them with open arms. If you go to Cathay during the present situation, don't expect the union to help you out if you have a problem with the company...you're on your own.
Why are pilot unions so strong? Two reasons: One is that we are not just employed by our airline but we are also required to uphold and abide by government regulations....our duty isn't just to our employer but also to the FAA rules. Sometimes these two forces conflict with each other and, in such a conflict, the employer will always lose. For the sake of safety the FAR's will be followed over and above the company mandate. Because of this unique employment situation....the union is necessary to "balance out the power" to give the pilot the protection he needs to not feel threatened by the company if he has to make a safety based decision that the company might not like. Secondly, unions are strong at airlines because management will always try to get you to do more for less. That's their job....to increase stockholder value. An employee is interested in their own life and their own interests....these interests are tied to the company, of course, but the company won't look out for you....they will look out for themselves. Because of this, unions are there to look out for the employee. In a perfect world, unions wouldn't be necessary because employers would take care of their people....but in real life, it just doesn't work out that way.
There are many here at airliners that don't like unions for various reasons. Everyone has their own opinion. I've noticed in my time here that very few of the union haters are airline pilots. I'd ask you to walk a mile in an airline pilots shoes, and try to understand their unique employment situation, before you form your opinion about a union.
Capt.Picard From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Thanks for the info.
I appreciate that perhaps I might feel differently if I were a pilot, or indeed in regular employment in any industry, rather than just a student!
At this point in time, I don't have an opinion on 'unions' as such, just some queries as to their motives, and how they go about acheiving their 'wishes'. I appreciate the arguments which highlight their neccessity, in certain circumstances.
Any more opinions out there?
A shame that IFALPA feels this is the only effective way of dealing with their management, rightly or wrongly. It's a very raw deal for all concerned.
Cx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6811 posts, RR: 55
Reply 3, posted (13 years 6 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2355 times:
The CX management dispute has been going on for 8 years now and believe me if there is a way to resolve this, it has been thought of already. It is not as easy as it all seems to the outside eye, and the only people that truly feel or know what it really involves to go to work and fly an airliner are other pilots. Outsiders always critisize pilot unions because they really do not understand what it is like, and our union for one has given up trying. Its not all glamour and money as it seems to the outside world.
Hopefully our management and our union can come to their senses and work out an agreement that both sides will be happy with before the level of bitterness between both sides is such that a resolution can never be found.