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Cathay To Commence Nonstop HKG-NYC  
User currently offlineB-HXB From New Zealand, joined Jan 2001, 745 posts, RR: 0
Posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1928 times:

The South China Morning Post reports:

"In a long-awaited move, Cathay Pacific yesterday said it would begin direct flights from Hong Kong to New York as soon as April.
Hong Kong's flag carrier would inaugurate the direct service to America's finance centre shortly after it took delivery of three A340-600 aircraft from Airbus Industries, chief executive David Turnbull said at the Association of Asia Pacific Airlines' conference.

The route, which flies over the polar regions rather than across North America, is the longest in the world and can only be flown non-stop by a new generation of long-haul jets, including the new wide-body A340-600."


The article seems to imply that CX will deploy the A340-600 for this route. If I recall correctly, the route was originally planned to be operated by an A340-300 but that was pulled after the September 11 attacks, presumably due to concerns over commercial viability.

Has the market improved that much? How frequent can CX afford to go on this service?


29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAA 777 From United States of America, joined May 2002, 807 posts, RR: 13
Reply 1, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1894 times:
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Sweet CX A340-600's at JFK

AA 777
Matt



CRJ-700 FO
User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1882 times:

The NYC-Asia market is quite strong. Even after 9/11, there hasn't been so many service reductions as there has been to Europe. I flew to Seoul this summer and had a lot of difficulty finding a seat!

NYC-Hong Kong? CO already operates a flight to there. They recently upgraded the frequency to daily, so things must be going well on that front. Can NYC handle another NYC-HKG service? I don't know. There is a huge Chinese population here, but most people of Chinese decent in the area have roots from Taiwan and China, rather than Hong Kong.

Deploying the A346 (does it even have the range for a full payload?) seems a bit optimistic, but I don't think a company like CX would make any rash decisions, especially in today's environment. I thought they were using those planes to London, Sydney and Toronto?

On a side note, I took UAL's nonstop flight from JFK-HKG last summer. That flight was cancelled because the 744 couldn't run a full payload that distance. It also didn't help that UAL had minimal presence at JFK to begin with.


User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 3, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1860 times:

United operated a 747-400 from JFK to HKG from April 2001 to August 2001 and then axed the route. It wasn't heavily promoted at all, the 747-400 had payload restrictions on the route and it was downgraded to a 777 before it was axed.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineSpaceman From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 534 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1832 times:

CX A340-600 would be able to fly NYC-Hkg under full load, since it only configures it's A340-600 with 286 seats, which is well under the limit of 380 seats. I would assume that there will be plenty pay load left for cargo service. They should order more A340-600 for flights to Canada too.

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 5, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1803 times:

They'll be able to have a higher load factor for the route than CO, I'm pretty sure, since CO's 777s that fly the route aren't the highest MTOW available, as well.

N


User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 603 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1733 times:

My dad's childhood mate in New York and he said the HK/Cantonese community here are quite sizable. I think cathay did not buy those 346 outright is because they want a better verison (the one EK is discussing with Airbus at present), they remembered the 340-311 story well, where 343 was vastly upgraded to 343X after just a few years.

Regards
Kev



Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1714 times:

Why is it that everyone often seems to forget that while JFK/EWR-HKG are the longest ROUNDTRIP flights currently/formerly operated.... SA's eastbound segment from ATL-JNB is actually the longest flight in the world?????

User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1710 times:

.... not to mention the fact that ATL-CPT is also longer than NYC-HKG as well.

User currently offlineKdonohue From Canada, joined Sep 2001, 373 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1675 times:

You know what I find interesting about this article? Is how people, especialy the media, misuse the term "direct" flight. In this article, they make reference to this being a direct flight twice. Cathay already has direct service to JFK via YVR.

A direct flight, if I am not mistaken, is not non-stop, but rather one where there isn't a change in aircraft. Some travellers not used to flying, may be surprised that thier "direct" flight is not a non-stop one as they may have thought.

Just my thoughts.



User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 19
Reply 10, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1619 times:

Gigneil

Not sure what you mean about 'load factor', but our 777's can easily carry a full load from EWR-HKG plus cargo.

Our max gross take off weight is not quite the maximum available but so what?
we don't fly any longer routes so why pay extra for a capability you don't need.

Actually, Co had looked at uprating the engines and raising the max t'o weight but found it uneconomical.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 11, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 1610 times:

Max Q-

Really? I find that interesting since a lot of UA's problem with the 744 from JFK-HKG was the unbelievable payload restrictions (I think I read in this forum somewhere that it was limited to 200 pax and not much cargo?).

How many pax total does CO carry on the route?

N


User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6532 posts, RR: 55
Reply 12, posted (11 years 5 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1591 times:

Just a note that UA did not downgrade the service NY-HKG service to a 777. UA has NEVER flown scheduled services to HKG with a 777. I wish they did though!!

User currently offlinePROSA From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5576 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 1513 times:

NYC-Hong Kong? CO already operates a flight to there.

I saw a funny sign on Sixth Avenue this afternoon advertising CO's EWR-HKG service:
King Street
to
Hong Kong
Nonstop


I must have been out of it after a long week at work, it was several seconds before I "got" it!



"Let me think about it" = the coward's way of saying "no"
User currently offlineCx flyboy From Hong Kong, joined Dec 1999, 6532 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1463 times:

you what? .

User currently offlineGigneil From United States of America, joined Nov 2002, 16345 posts, RR: 86
Reply 15, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1454 times:

I don't get it.  Sad

N


User currently offlineContinentalEWR From United States of America, joined May 2000, 3762 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1363 times:

"KING KONG"

Continental's ads in NYC are ubiquitous and sometimes annoying. They adorn everything from taxicab roof tops to buses, phone booths, subway posters, and so forth.

Others include "AVENUE C TO ORANGE COUNTY. NONSTOP" and "YO TO ALOHA, NONSTOP", "POST NO BILLS TO CONGRESS, NONSTOP" and one of my favorites, "WANT TO SEE THE WORLD? WE'RE SELLING TICKETS".

Continental is the biggest airline in the New York Area market, with 350 daily departures from Newark Liberty International Airport, the carrier's second biggest US hub. It also flies from LaGuardia, JFK, White Plains/Westchester County Airport.

ContinentalEWR


User currently offlineN503JB From Hong Kong, joined May 2000, 300 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1358 times:

I agree with Max Q!!!!!

The reason is right as what he said. I worked for Dragon Air (HIAS) and operated the CO B777-200ER HKG/EWR load Master. The B777 can carry full passenger load and around 4-6 tons of cargo. However, the MTOW will be depend on Runway in using, Temperature and QNH. I can't understand why the UAL B747-400 have that unbelievable payload restrictions????

jetBlue Airways
N503JB



HKIA Ramp Spotters
User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4059 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1310 times:

The 747-400 is beyond the limits of it's full payload range on the EWR-HKG route, so, not only does it have to carry a full load of fuel, whereas CO with it's 777's does not even have to fill the tanks, but it also has to reduce it's payload to lower the fuel burn sufficiently to make it non-stop.

Notwithstanding that the 747-400 is still the queen of the skies, it's uneconomic on this route.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1294 times:

MaxQ,

What's your source on CO being able to run a full load on said flight? Gordon was specifically quoted as saying that CO's 772ERs are quite heavily restricted on the westbound EWR-HKG segment (due to EWR's "short" runway and that CO's 777s are powered by the relatively weak GE90-90B), but pax yields tend to make up for it.


User currently offlineBOEING747400 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1268 times:

How long will it take for CX's A346 to fly from HKG-JFK or JFK-HKG non-stop? I doubt that there will be a demand for these flights because the flying time is way too long to be comfortable for most passengers. I think that any flight over 15 hours non-stop is too long for most people so I don't think CX will make much revenue for this route. What does everybody else think? Thanks.

User currently onlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16689 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 1241 times:

EWR's departure runway is 11,000-12,000 ft (I forget exactly), I would think 11,000 (on the shorter end) is long enough.


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineBlink182 From Azerbaijan, joined Oct 1999, 5476 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1198 times:

I am sure this route could make money, but does anybody want to spend 15 hours on an airplane? I'd rather go through LAX or YVR and have a layover so I can get out of a tube for a little bit.

Airlines need to begin to realize that people fly because they have to, not because they want to(with people like us aviation freaks being the exception), and nobody wants to spend 15-16 hours on an airplane. I feel bad for the crews having to operate this flight.

blink



Give me a break, I created this username when I was a kid...
User currently offlineRai From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

I am sure this route could make money, but does anybody want to spend 15 hours on an airplane? I'd rather go through LAX or YVR and have a layover so I can get out of a tube for a little bit.

Airlines need to begin to realize that people fly because they have to, not because they want to(with people like us aviation freaks being the exception), and nobody wants to spend 15-16 hours on an airplane. I feel bad for the crews having to operate this flight.


I have flown NYC-HKG non-stop before and, yes, it is a long flight! It took us 14h 45min to traverse the route. YVR-HKG is about 13h eastbound (it might be even longer now as my dad flies that route a lot and he says it has taken up to 14 hours, thanks to the A340) and LAX about 14h. It's not THAT huge of a difference.


User currently offlineConcordeBoy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (11 years 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1131 times:

"EWR's departure runway is 11,000-12,000 ft (I forget exactly), I would think 11,000 (on the shorter end) is long enough."

EWR's longest runway (4L/22R) is 11,000ft long exactly, which is a close call for a flight traveling to Asia. BOS's runway is 'only' 1,000ft longer and off limits to all such flights.


25 Cch362 : Some people avoid this route because of the possible health risks from radiation. The exposure on a EWR-HKG flight is equivalent to three chest X-rays
26 Bigo747 : CX HKG-JFK schedule: CX 822 03.3.30-03.10.25 HKG1015-1405JFK 346 F8C60Y220 CX 823 03.3.30-03.10.25 JFK1550-2010+1HKG 346 F8C60Y220
27 Rai : CX HKG-JFK schedule: CX 822 03.3.30-03.10.25 HKG1015-1405JFK 346 F8C60Y220 CX 823 03.3.30-03.10.25 JFK1550-2010+1HKG 346 F8C60Y220 Wow, so it is true!
28 Rai : One more thing! Does this mean that they will stop the HKG-YVR-JFK run? And why aren't they sending the A346's to YYZ? I always thought that CX wanted
29 United777 : Will Cathay Pacific still fly between Vancouver and JFK???
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