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Air Canada To Take On 5 UAL 744's!  
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4686 times:

As part of the Start Alliance bail out plan Air Canada is rumoured to be taking on 5 United Airlines 747-400's. I dont have any confirmed details, but it seems that there are currently two options 1)Air Canada will return 5 of their own 744's to the lessor, and lease 5 of UAL's 744's from United. Option 2) would see AC take on 5 additional 744's increasing their 744 fleet to 12 Aircraft. This option would obviously cost a lot of money, and would probably not be justified unless some 340's were parked/returned to lessor.

All info is from a source(s) at Air Canada....


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAirCanadaMan From Canada, joined Feb 2000, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4616 times:

Isn't C-FBCA already parked in the desert?, which is owned, not leased.

If that is the case, than option 2 seems much less likely. And with a whole bunch of Asian downgrades to 763's, do they need 12 744's in total?

In option 1, returning them to the lessors, thats fine and dandy, but only 3 are leased, 2 combis from GECAS and a regular 744 from GECAS.

So, if the two combis were to be returned to GECAS, and replaced with regular 744's, would that not leave a hole in AC's European cargo market?


It all seems a little fishy.


User currently offlineBoeing747-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4616 times:

What ones would they get rid of, I hope not my fav one, the Team Canada 747-4F6

User currently offlineB747-437B From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4613 times:

That's all AC needs - a bunch of MORE non-standard large widebodies.

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 4, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4561 times:

Im pretty sure all the 744's are currently in service, one or two were parked for a while, but no all are online, and Im pretty sure that all of them are leased. Dont know which would be returned.


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 5, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4527 times:

Just did some checking and ACman you are right, BCA was returned to lessor in october...and only 3 are leased...could they just be parking 5 aircraft then, sending them to sit with their -200 sister's in mojave?


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineGodbless From Sweden, joined Apr 2000, 2752 posts, RR: 16
Reply 6, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 4506 times:

Couldn't these extra 747's help AC solve the Canada-Germany problems between YUL and YYZ?
With extra planes at hand it would be possible to satisfy the demand which, according to various "YUL vs. YYZ" threads, seems to be very high.
And until LH get their act together AC could serve YUL-MUC. And if the demand is really that high then why not serve it with the 747?

Max


User currently offlineUAL Bagsmasher From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 2146 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4315 times:

If it's true, then I'm glad to see them going to a good home...one who will know how to take care of them.

User currently offlineFutureFO From Ireland, joined Oct 2001, 3132 posts, RR: 21
Reply 8, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

It would be nice to see the oddball routes taken on by these extra 744's. YWG-HKG//YWG-NRT//YEG-TPE


I Don't know where I am anymore
User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4293 times:

Done forget YUL-YEG right Mark??


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineA380 From Canada, joined Dec 2000, 658 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

If those 744's are additions, how about possible routes like YYZ-PEK, YYZ-PVG, bigger equipment on YVR-PVG, YVR-PEK etc.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4209 times:

AC will have these B747-400 shuttling YUL-YYZ on the half hours  Big thumbs up

AC with B744's..... where will they put them?

Mark


User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 12, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4066 times:

AC with B744's.... where will they put them?

Mark, I hope they put them into the sky....??

I know here at YYZ there is lots of room at the infieild terminal, as well the new Internation pier will be open for T3 soon, hopefully AC will get more room there untill T-new is opened fully!!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offlineLymanm From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 1138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3950 times:

I'm sure AC will do what they can to help UAL, but Option #2 is a rather sloppy and irresponsible idea. AC, for the past decade, has been very conservative with their fleet planning, and overall growth. This is simply too big a capacity increase to sustain in current conditions. Even in good conditions, with all the A330s and loooong A340s buzzing around the world, where do you realistically put them? Additionally, this would add a 3rd type of 744 to the fleet: the federally mandated over-bulky combis -433s and the former CP -475s. I'm not in the know enough to comment on how compatible the UAL models are...anyone?

BUT option #1 does sound more realistic. It streamlines the 747 fleet, and if the lease terms are more favourable, then AC will be all over that particular aspect. Mind you, the combis, although range-limited, can still earn their keep and I'm sure AC would miss them.

In any event, this rumour sounds too good to be true.



buhh bye
User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3937 times:

They could keep the combis and park/sell/return the ex-CP -400's (weren't they all leased???). That would standardize the fleet to all-PW powerplants, as the ex-CP aircraft use GE power and the -433M's use Pratt... although that doesn't help much with standardizing given the PW/GE split in the 767 fleet.

User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4976 posts, RR: 51
Reply 15, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3873 times:

Given Canada's market of 32 million people, and trying to catch some of the US connection traffic, where can they feasibility implement a full pax version of the Boeing 747-475 (orwhatever the UAL version may be)... Unless they plan on reducing frequencies on pontential YUL-CDG, YVR-LHR, YYZ-FRA, YYZ-LHR, then perhaps they have a fit..... I would argue that Air Canada's needs pertain more to the boeing 767-300 and A321 rather than the Boeing 747-400..

Mark


User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 629 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (11 years 9 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3832 times:

Well said AC183!! That is what i think too, it would be more efficent to have 1 engine type for an aircraft type.


Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineGmonney From Canada, joined Jan 2001, 2159 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (11 years 9 months 2 hours ago) and read 3621 times:

For sure guys, one engine type would be a good option, in this instance that they can get the aircraft and a Alliance Partner, being United as the old owner it add peice of mind. The aircraft will be in good working order, clean, and reliable. Its a whole lot better than getting them from like PIA or some other company!!

Grant



Drive it like you stole it!
User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 3536 times:

It would be "moronic" for Air Canada to lease/purchase/barter what ever United 747's from their unwashed enemy to the south...  Yeah sure I'd rather scrap them...

User currently offlineSlawko From Canada, joined May 1999, 3799 posts, RR: 9
Reply 19, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3503 times:

Easy there 747-451, we dont all think he is a Moron. Its actually too bad that WE have a Moron running our government, he should have sacked that idiot right away and appologized at the Nato Summit. For that matter he shouldn't have come out of retirement in the 90's... But on the same note, we are not always going to agree on everything, we are an independant country too...


"Clive Beddoe says he favours competition, but his actions do not support that idea." Robert Milton - CEO Air Canada
User currently offlineBigmo747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 306 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3505 times:

" Its a whole lot better than getting them from like PIA or some other company!! "

can u please explain what u mean by that statement?

thank u


User currently offline747-451 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 2417 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 3469 times:

"But on the same note, we are not always going to agree on everything, we are an independant country too..."

We don't expect you to, and we realize Canada is an independent country. What we do ask is that your administration you treat our administration with the dignity and respect we treat yours.

Now to apply the blow torches and wrecking balls on those 747-422's.


User currently offlineAC183 From Canada, joined Jul 1999, 1532 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3440 times:

"the dignity and respect we treat yours."

...and that could be the beginning of an entirely different mess... but lets not go there.


User currently offlineHeavymetal From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Blow torch several hundred million dollars worth of relatively young, premium air transports? All because the economy sucks right now?

Nay, nay dear sir, expandeth thy vision... Wink/being sarcastic

When backs are against the firing squad wall, either you die...or you invent a way out. And if you're really good, you do it in a way that leaves you on the firing squad's Christmas card list.

This sounds like a plan.....and perhaps...a shape of things to come in airline collaboration.


User currently offlineCaptaingomes From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 6413 posts, RR: 55
Reply 24, posted (11 years 8 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 3332 times:

747-451, interesting way of thinking you have there. Interesting how UA is in financial trouble, on the verge of bankruptcy, and Air Canada might be in there with a helpful plan to purchase some of their excess aircraft, and thus injecting some much needed cash, and you bring up something that one person in the Canadian government said as a means to argue that these airplanes should be torched??? Dude, you're cracked if that's the way you think. We don't see the U.S. as an enemy. And I don't think most Americans see Canada as an enemy. Just as I don't think Americans should take what this one person said too seriously, especially because it wasn't an official statement or even on a microphone or anything, I'm not going to judge all Americans based on your crooked opinions.


"it's kind of like an Airbus, it's an engineering marvel, but there's no sense of passion" -- J. Clarkson re: Coxster
25 SegmentKing : just remember that when ErrorCanada was on its brink of failure, that UAL Corporation came in and purchased 3 A340s from AC in CASH and leased them ba
26 Captaingomes : SegmentKing, that's all very good! Both companies work very closely together, and they both benefit from that. Now, I can understand that Americans mi
27 747-451 : 1) my statement about "blow torches and wrecking balls" was "sarcastic" since that Air Canada is "such" a dedicated Airbus operator why would they tak
28 747-451 : (sorry for the cut off in my last post....) .....are not asking Canada to compromise in any way, just to see our point of view, respect it and agree o
29 Slawko : Actually Segmentking that was just a proposal, and it was for A330's...it never actually happened
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