Lapper From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2002, 1534 posts, RR: 7 Reply 6, posted (11 years 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 1647 times:
Skippy and Apuneger: United has not gone! Chapter 11 does not mean this is the end of the carrier right now, if indeed ever. Flights will still take place, so no need to rush out and start being sentimaental.
FlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (11 years 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 1544 times:
While I feel sorry for the hard working blue-collared employees of United, I have no pity whatsoever for the management & unions leaders. They bought this upon themselves. Sloppiness & greed is & will be their ultimate downfall. United they stood, divided they fell. To the working man & woman of United, things will get better, because they always do. Regards.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3757 posts, RR: 36 Reply 13, posted (11 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1437 times:
I have a dumb question.
Normally when a company has filed for bankruptcy, the trading of its stock is halted, yet I see where UAL stock is still being traded as of right now (12 mllion shares traded so far today.) Why is that?
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 14, posted (11 years 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 1401 times:
Trading in the stock of bankrupt companies does happen. Sometimes trading is halted "pending news" right before or after a bankruptcy filing but there is no rule saying bankrupt companies can't be traded. This is because technically, it is possible for there to be something left for the original stockholders after reorganization. But this is rare. If the company has enough assets to pay all of its creditors + some left for the owners, then there is seldom a reason to file for bankruptcy in the first place.
The final death of a stock, I believe, is delisting from the exchange - not a halt in trading. Those of you who are considering buying United stock in hopes of a Continental-like rebound should keep in mind that the ORIGINAL stockholders of a bankrupt company are nearly always left with nothing. If you believe in a turnaround and have money to burn - buy when NEW stock is issued as part of the reorganization. THAT was the stock you could have bought to make allot of money off of Continental, etc. It is still a huge risk but there is a real chance of making money that way.
Check out the Motley Fool website if you want to learn more. Enter Bankruptcy as a search term and you should be able to find a better explanation for this.
MSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (11 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1281 times:
I just read the bankruptcy filing. Very interesting. I also have my contact in the Bankruptcy court who read the proposed reorginization plan. It is very interesting according to him. We will hear more about the plan following the first hearing with the judge regarding access to the DIP financing.
On a side note, in the list of affiliated companies co-filing for chapter 11 one of the companies is AIR WISCONSIN, INC. I did not know that they were going to file also with UAL. If anyone knows the reason for this i would be interested to hear. IT is on page 4 of the petiton.
LoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3757 posts, RR: 36 Reply 17, posted (11 years 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 1230 times:
Trading in the stock of bankrupt companies does happen. Sometimes trading is halted "pending news" right before or after a bankruptcy filing but there is no rule saying bankrupt companies can't be traded. This is because technically, it is possible for there to be something left for the original stockholders after reorganization. But this is rare.
Thanks for the great explanation, Cloudy, and now that you mention it, I believe someone on another board had said that the America West bankruptcy several years ago was like that, where there was actually some money left for the orignal stockholders.
DesertJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 7717 posts, RR: 17 Reply 19, posted (11 years 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1197 times:
From what I read this morning in the Washington Post it said United is planning for a 18 month stint in Chapter 11. Makes me wonder why they aren't trying to do a fast track reorg like USAirways is doing. Can anybody speculate as to why.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
MSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (11 years 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 1165 times:
The main reason they are looking at a longer period of time in Chapter 11 is the complexity of some of thier debt issues. THe other reason is the shear size of UAL. The larger the company, the larger the debts, the longer it takes to sucessfully work your way out of bankruptcy.
The first thing UAL will need to do in bankruptcy is get the DIP court approved. THe second thing is to meet with the secured comittee, and negotiate with them repayment/forgiveness terms on their debts. Then they will need to meet with the unsecured comittee and work the same deal. Also during this time UAL will trim its costs. It will do this anyway it can. As others have speculated, there are many areas where this will occur, some we know about, but some will suprise even the best of us. The amount of debt here is amazing, and the time required will be extensive. That is why they are looking at 18 months.
FATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5739 posts, RR: 16 Reply 22, posted (11 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1096 times:
MSY-MSP and Jjbiv,
I'm only making an educated guess, but I would imagine that the Air Wisconsin Inc. refers to a corporation that UAL formed to own AWA in 1992. Today it is probably just a shell corporation that UAL kept active and could use if needed.
I believe the corporate names involved with owning and operating AirWisc today are:
Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation
CJT Holdings, Inc.
Note the name difference between the 2 Air Wisconsins.
"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
MSY-MSP From United States of America, joined Jun 2002, 132 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (11 years 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 1076 times:
That is what I thought, but when I read the petition it made me think otherwise. I just had to ask, in case I missed something on the ownership. Thanks for the input. Glad to see they aren't in this too.