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Mesaba's Relationship To NW.  
User currently offlineI LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8
Posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1598 times:

Does NW own any of Mesaba? Or is Mesaba an independent company that operates as part of NW's route/fare structure? Do they own or plan to get any CRJs or is that just Pinnacle? How is the purchasing of Big Sky going to effect Mesaba?

Just curious, I have always had great flights with Mesaba and have had some flight crews on those flights.

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineI LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8
Reply 1, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1588 times:

Typo error it should say: Just curious, I have always had great flights with Mesaba and have had some GREAT flight crews on those flights.

User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1583 times:

Northwest owns a significant portion of Mesaba. Can't recall the exact figure, but I think it may be around 40%.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineAirworthy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1579 times:

I think they are a wholly owned subsidary of NWA.



User currently offlineTWFirst From Vatican City, joined Apr 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 52
Reply 4, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1577 times:

No, they are not a wholly-owned subsidiary.


An unexamined life isn't worth living.
User currently offlineFavre From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 595 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 1573 times:

nw owns about 33%--crj's will happen when xj gets a contract for their pilots..


BAE 146 ARJ CV-580 YS-11 SH360 DASH8 SAAB340 EMB 120-135-145-175 DC9/10/30/40/50 MD80/90 DC10 717 727 737 747 757 767 77
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 6, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1559 times:

Favre... when I saw the topic, I just knew you'd have a post in there. I hope that you're right and I hope that the CRJs come with whatever contract we sign. If the company thinks we're going to take a concessionary contract to ge them, they're idiots. Any info on the bigsky deal? I know the deal is now official, but nobody is talking and everybody is speculating. I KNOW NW knows something.

As already mentioned Mesaba is not a wholly owned subsidiary of NW. That would be Pinnacle. There are plans for a spinoff, with NW retaining 13% ownership. Even though NW doesn't own a majority stake in Mesaba, they effectively control 100% of what goes on at XJ. Xj has 1 customer, and that is NW. They buy all our seats and perform all selling and marketing for those seats. Our responsibilities lie in hiring and training employees, maintaining a/c and operating them. We also provide ground handling in MSp and DTW and many northern stations for Pinnacle and Pinnacle provides MEM hub ground service and some southern city ground handling. Though things are chaning on that front as well. NW does ground handling for alot of Mesaba cities as well.

As Favre said, we'll get CRJs when the pilots get a new contract. Although the company will lead us into believing that we hold the future of Mesaba in our hands and that if we don't sign a cheap labor contract and continue to work for pennies, our profit making airline won't be able to effectively bid for CRJ flying. So in the meantime our friends at NW are shrinking Mesaba. Hmmm... why aren't we hiring like crazy like the other regionals? Contract blues, that's why. It is traditional practice at NW that the company/entity going through major labor talks gets the shaft... and the past has proven that clearly.

As far as BigSky... Mesaba holdings, the company that owns Mesaba Airlines, is now the proud owner of the Billings based company. The future plans for BigSky are unknown to Mesaba Airlines employees, because as far as mgmt in conserned, that doesn't concern us. Well, they're wrong. We have every bit of consern, especially if their plans are to use them (Big Sky) as a bucket shop competitor to Mesaba Airlines employees who will not work for subpar wages anymore. So, it remains to be seen if Big Sky will become the 3rd Airlink carrier, or if they'll use Big Sky as a venue to bid for other feed work with other airlines. A tangle web has been woven... now it will be interesting to see mgmt get out of this without a strike.

Any more ???? about Mesaba... I'd be happy to answer them.


Thanks for the compliments... we really do try our best at providing superior service for our... oops, I mean NW's customers. That is proven in our performance numbers as well as our feedback from customers and even NW.



AZJ


User currently offlineI LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 1546 times:

Thanks for the reply AZJ...any more trips to Hawaii planned to visit home? Going in march once again. Can't wait.

If/When you guys get the CRJs are they going to use them in addition to the ARJs or are they going to phase out the ARJs? Are the Saabs going to be around for a while as well? Any new major route expansions planned or on the horizon?

Thanks for the reply


User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 1517 times:

Azj, You guys are in a tuff spot.If labor unrest comes to Mesaba NWA can void the contract for nonperformance.Is arbiration available?

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7350 posts, RR: 28
Reply 9, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1484 times:

Well, the XJ folks got one thing they can boast about here at SCE....at least their mainline carrier isn't in bankruptcy protection unlike the two others airlines here. This morning we were watching the TV in the restaurant to hear the fun news. Woohoo, the CSA's were entertaining some fun questions from stupid passengers this afternoon too about if we'll still be flying come Friday....yes, duh. Whatever happens with UA, us here at ACA are somewhat in bed with Delta. The Alleghany folks really have nothing to turn to cuz USAirways in there only codeshare. I for one have mixed feelings as this isn't a career job for me, just a job to earn some spending money for college in an industry that interests me. Yeah, someday I'd like to be in the management side of an airline...so I'm sorry if I now become a corporate a#@h##$, but I've been on the other side of the operations and between this job and previous ones I've worked, I've seen the workings of the unions and you've also got to remember where you came from and the people below you. I'd rather be working for XJ here, but they didn't have any openings.

I hand it to XJ, they run an good airline with excellent front line employees. Their performance is the envy of other regionals. Last month, their station here had an almost flawless ontime percentage and a 100% completion factor for the month. For us??? hah....the ops at IAD are a joke, ontime whats that? seriously now.


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 10, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1472 times:

I LOVE EWR: I went to HNL in Sept and plan on going in January, depending on my schedule. There aren't any known plans to discontinue the operation of the avro and certainly not the saabs. The A and B model saabs are slowly being retired and I believe all the As will be gone by the end fo next year and the B's gone by the end of 2004. That leaves us with the new B+ models that were the last off Saabs assembly line. Those are on lease for a long time to come, I believe about 13-15 more years. Mesaba's idea of a future fleet plan is 75 CRJs, 36 Avros and 45 Saab B+ NW can use the Avros in a market that other airlines are only now tapping into, and that is the 70 seat market. Despite was people think, the plane is not a maintenance queen and is very relable for us. We are at the top or very near the top of the industry with operational performance and that says a lot for the avro and her performance. As far as new XJ routes... the only new things we've got coming to us are the PNS flights that have been upgraded from CRJs (2 daily), MSP-GSO and ORF, the return of ASE flying from MSP and MEM. Most new cities are awarded to Pinnacle (Quebec City is a good example) and most new service seems to be upgraded service from the saabs. Look for DTW-ROA and DTW-BGM to be anounced tomorrow by Pinnacle. Those are currently Mesaba saab operations. NW does a fantastic job with matching capasity to demand and alot of "new service" is upgrades and downgrades, not really new stuff.

Filejw - we are in a tough spot, but we're also ready to play hardball. I don't know exactly what it says in our "airlink services agreement" about work stoppage. I know in the SEC filing that Pinnacle has made a certain percentage of flying has to be gone before NW can take action. NW wouldn't null and void our contract anyhow, they need Mesaba's feed, money and performance to make themselves look good and stay as they are, losing less money than the rest. Pinnacle can't cover all our flying and theirs with their fleet and resources. I don't think it will come to a strike, but XJ mgmt will let it go to the final hour perhaps. Either that or they'll drag their feet until NW says to get their act in gear and do something about our contract. I mean really... why should XJ settle with us now? The longer they can drag their feet and cry financial ruin, the longer they can pay us at subpar wages and workrules. And why should we go to arbitration... why not just negotiate in good faith? In the meantime, the pilots of Mesaba will, with the integrity that we have, continue to contribue to our stellar operational performance and assist the rest of the employees in the company, in acheiving hundreds of dollars in bonussses. We will also continue to provide one of, if not the most safe flying environments in the industry. Why? anything less would lower ourselves into the gutter with the rest of our managment who take bonusses, raises and cry financial ruin, all the while making profits, furloughing employees and letting their company shrink.

PSU - if I ever hear of an opening in SCE - I'll be sure to let you know. We'd love to have you onboard at XJ - so you can work for "an airline to call your own."



AZJ


User currently offlineI LOVE EWR From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 852 posts, RR: 8
Reply 11, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 1460 times:

Thanks AZJ, glad to see that the Avro and the Saab will be around for a while longer. Those Avros are awesome wish more carriers flew them.

User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1457 times:

AZJ.Well as I tell the kids at the rink "keep your head up going into the corners".If they think they will save a couple of dollars by giving the contract to someone else look out.Loyalty toward contract employees? Barely have it with their own.

User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 13, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1451 times:

Filejw - that's the gamble that we're going to have to take. Consessions were made in 1996 to get the avro - which weren't needed because we were getting the avro anyway. We're not playng that game again this time. We know that we're not immune to the fact that NW could just find another company to fly their CRJs for. Hmmmm... like Bigsky or any other bucketshop regional. But we're going to fight tooth and nail for what we deserve and if it means not getting CRJs, at least we'll be appropriately paid avro and saab drivers. Screw the CRJ if it means buckling to company strong arming and intimidation. Screw the CRJ if we have to fly them for poverty wages and sweat shop like work rules. Screw the CRJ if it means selling our jobs and the profession down the river just because we have hard of for a damn airplane. Quality of life is way more important and the tide is changing at the "regional" level. When are people going to realize we do exactly the same job as a Dc9 driver at NW? Why can't we just be treated with the respect and dignity that we deserve and be compensated like the professionals we are. We don't expect to get paid NW rates or anything like that... we just want to have Fos make more than poverty level wages and the captains make what their counterparts make flying similar sized airplanes in similar sized companies. It's not going to be easy, but we're willing to fight for what we deserve.


AZJ


User currently offlineFilejw From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 359 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

Well good luck I hope everything works out for you.

User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7350 posts, RR: 28
Reply 15, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1404 times:

AZJ - Thats cool if you hear anything, I'm sure I'd probably hear about it here to, since we all work in close proximity of each other. Actually, the lines are blurred between the different carriers here somewhat. If anyone ever needs a hand around here, you can get someone from another carrier to help out. We all share our some of our ground equipment if necessary like our bag carts, tugs, and planeside carts since nono of us really have the enough equipment to run as efficeintly as possible. We can do turns alot quicker that way since we only have one cart here. Lots of times for our flights we'll load up our cart with the outgoing checked luggage in the back room and as soon as our a/c comes in we'll take XJ's cart out to the aircraft to unload the inbound luggage. Next we'll pull up our cart with all the outgoing luggage and load that all before we unload XJ's cart onto the belt. The XJ crew is jealous of our de-icing rig though, we got a cherry picker bucket truck while XJ uses that goofy ladder-stand being pulled around by a tug. Its probably a heck of a lot cheaper and easier to maintain than our ghetto-IAD hand-me-down de-icer truck that is a bear to start up some mornings. This job isn't anything perminant, I'm not going to be sticking around this town after graduation or possibly grad school here. I was fortunete to have some connections in order to get the job, and its pretty cool since I'm only part-time and more-or-less a glorified sub so my hours can very but the plus side is that its rather flexible. However, when you go to be at work at 0-dark:30 in the morning after little sleep in order to work the 6:00am departure and then attend a full load of classes it can get to you, but I couldn't turn down this opportunity.

Anyways....a couple ?'s about XJ......

Whats the deal with the 6-7 Saabs parked doing hardstands and closed up off the west side of Concourse C in DTW? The past few times I've been there, its been like this? Are these just excess aircraft, that overnight there? Seems like a poor utilization of the fleet.

Those A-model Saabs and the paint-jobs.....wow. N27XJ was in here the other day....that plane is frickin' pink! That or it looks like they've been through the sand-blaster. All the A models I've seen look like that. I assume the paint job is a result of them being retired soon. How often does the red have to be repainted in order to keep them red?

Did XJ get all of the former 9E Saabs, or were some or all returned directly to the lessors? I would assume those are some of the first to leave the fleet, right?

Oh yeah, and you guys got some hot FA's, heck some are younger than me. Well, we got some hot ones too, but they don't seem as cool......been trying to get some to go out with us on their overnights, no one's taken up the offer though....

btw...do you ever fly the MEM-ASE or MSP-ASE routes? or wasn't there something about select crews with special training only? Might be heading in there for spring break this year.


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 1390 times:
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I know NWA owns perhaps 11 of the Avros and leases the remainder. On what basis do they then sub-lease them to Mesaba? How long is the sub-lease term and on what basis can they be re-called.

If Mesaba's flight crews decide to pursue job action to improve their shockingly low wage scales, does this allow NWA to ''repossess'' the Avro's? i.e. does a strike provide NWA the legal authority to take them back and look for another operator?

As opposed to American or Delta who set up strctures where they are actually owning their regionals, is this NWA structure the model for the trunk carriers to control their regionals and keep them on a tight leash without actually owning them?

While they still own Pinnacle they are planning the spin off and I note that all those CRJ's also are controlled by NWA and subleased to Pinnacle.



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineAcidradio From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1867 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 1365 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

N27XJ is the pride of the fleet  Big grin It is the oldest plane in the fleet and will likely go back to the leasing company sooner or later (more likely the dumpster). I thought it was already returned but sure enough, I worked a flight on it the other night. Oh well. 27 was certified in 1985. It was the 27th Saab 340 to roll off the line. That is as old as my sister!  Big grin

In re: all the hardstanded DTW Saabs, in recent times things have gotten slower for the Saabs. Some of the Saab routes have been pretty much been replaced by Pinnacle's CRJ's. I don't know about out of DTW, but here at MSP you are seeing ever-growing banks of CRJ flights, some cutting into routes that were always XJ strongholds, such as MSP-RST, MSP-CWA and MSP-DLH. And you get a day like Saturday which is a bit slower than the rest and you are going to find less need for the capacity. The lowered fleet utilization isn't all that great, but when you need a spare to replace a broken plane or a B+ model because an A model won't do the job, it's kind of nice sometimes.

As far as 9E Saabs, I've seen at least ten of their Saabs around, I can't remember what the highest a/c # is that I've seen around though. The fleet even includes the notorious N366PX, the same one that was kindly parked in a ditch at MEM one evening.

Oh and we do have some attractive young flight attendants. And quite a few attractive female pilots as well  Smile



Ich haben zwei Platzspielen und ein Microphone
User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1331 times:

Hey PSU - As acid radio mentioned, each month our saabs are replaced by CRJs, without anything new for the saabs to do. So, we have a huge inefficiency in fleet utilization. So, that's what you're seeing in DTW. They hardstand them for mx and for spares and I guess for just a lack of a better place to park them. As on NW planes, the red is hard to maintain. Our saabs look a lot better this year than they did last year because of a new washing program. There is even some exploration into a new paintscheme, but there are a lot of open promises at this company. Foley, our former CEO (now just CEO of Mesaba Holdings) said something in a weekly message of a predominantly gray scheme. I personally think this has something to do with the suposid new NW scheme. Mesaba only took over leases of 11 Pinnacle saabs, and they were only B models, including the "ditch witch." All their A's were returned to the lessors and many of them can be found in BNA. Their last saab flight was December 2 that ended in MEM with a huge party at their hanger. From the saab crews and the mechanics, the Pinnacle saabs are pieces of JUNK!! Hopefully they'll be the first ones to go. The As will all be gone by the end of 2003, including 27XJ and then all the Bs gone by the end of 2004. Yup, we do have some awesome FAs. Young, hot and willing to play... nuff said. As for ASE flying... only MSP crews are certified to fly there, so all ASE flying is on MSP patterns, including the MEM flying. This dates back to when we had to go to Berlin or Manchester for sim training and the costs to certify all Avro pilots would have been outrageous. Now that we have a nice new training center in MSP, with an avro sim and a new ASE training program recently approved by the FAA, there are plans to certify MEM crews in the future. Time frame? Who knows... remember XJ has many open promises still unfulfilled. Not to mention the fact I'm moving domiciles in January and won't be based in MSP or MEM, my chances are very slim I'll be doing any ASE flying. Oh well...

Is this your last year at PSU?



AZJ


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 19, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 1325 times:

Coronado - NW owns 12 avros outright and lease the remaining 24. They in turn sublease all of them back to Mesaba. I believe there are on 10 year leases, but I'm not sure. So, the earliest one to go off lease will be in 2008. As far as NW allowing another airline to operate the avro, they'll have to get through their pilots first. In the 1998 NW pilot contract the avros were grandfathered in, and include scope that says Mesaba AIRLINES pilots will be the only ones to fly the airplane and Mesaba AIRLINES be the only operator of the avro for NW. So, that limits them severely. The airlink services agreements (1 for the saab and 1 for the avro) specify termination dates and required notice by NW. The turboprop contract is up on June 30, 2007 and NW is required to provide 1 year termination notice. NW has the right to terminate the jet agreement on April 25, 2004 with at least 180 days or up to 365 days notice for termination. These agreements can be terminated at anytime by any party in the event of uncured breach by, or the insolvency of, the other party. NW can also terminate the agreements should Mesaba fail to pay leases payments or maintain insurance on the planes. I knew the annual report would be good enough for more than just bathroom reading!! =)

Richard Anderson believes there is no need to own the mainline carriers regional affiliates. I think this was proven by him when the bid for NW to aquire the rest of Mesaba shares was canceled last summer. I personally don't think there is a need either. NW does very well, keeping us under s tight leash without owning us and the same will go for Pinnacle when their sold off. This is especially good for us, as we can pursue work with other airlines. Actually, Mesaba Holdings can pursue work with other airlines. Mesaba Airlines is bound by he airlink agreements to operate solely on NW's hehlaf. Hence the need for Holdings to go shopping and buy Bigsky. Which incidently, the big master plan should be unveiled soon. They're in Billings for a big meeting this week regarding their future. Also remember Comair and their strike and how badly that affected Delta. I think it is a bit rediculous for the mainline carrier to take on the complete different cost structure of a "regional" airline at the same time maintaining a mainline cost structure. It's very similar to a low cost airline within an airline, a la Continental Lite, UA Shuttle etc... So, I think this set up is the wave of the future... especially if the mainline carriers can profit from a stock offering, like CO and XJT.

And regarding NW getting rid of XJ all together. We have to remember that NW and Carl Pohlad are the largest investors in Mesaba. We are a viable profitable company (although, shrinking, due to complete politics) that provides great service and financial benefits for NW. It would be crazy for NW to get rid of a money making entity such as Mesaba, when all we do is put money in their pockets and as so ignorantly said by a reporter in a UA article, "provide taxi service" to their hubs. Not to mention the financial gain to the personal pockets of the shareholders of MAIR stock. There is always the threat that NW will want to walk away from Mesaba as our price for our product increases. But proof is in the pudding with Air Wisky, ACA, Comair and the rest that have "expensive" contracts, that they are still quite cost competitive with their new labor contracts.


AZJ


User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1986 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 1301 times:

"In re: all the hardstanded DTW Saabs, in recent times things have gotten slower for the Saabs. Some of the Saab routes have been pretty much been replaced by Pinnacle's CRJ's" "As acid radio mentioned, each month our saabs are replaced by CRJs, without anything new for the saabs to do. So, we have a huge inefficiency in fleet utilization. So, that's what you're seeing in DTW."

Then why are cities like TOL losing flights constantly?? TOL has exceeded the systemwide loadfactor almost every month since the beginning of the year. TOL used to have 8 Saabs and 1 CRJ a day, right now we are sitting at 1 CRJ and 4 Saabs (3, YES 3 overnighters!) going to 6 Saabs in January. I don't disagree that they are bein under utilized at all, but why not run some more flights to your money maker cities like TOL, CAK, FWA??? Thanks for any comments AZJ and I do hope things get better for ya guys....

Ry

P.s Is Mr. Sokol still flyin' w/ ya guys?


User currently offlineAzjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3799 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 1263 times:

Ry - POLITICS - that is the name of the game right now. That plus, Nw controlls all of our scheduling, but Mesaba arranges fleet planning and staging of a/c. FWA is a new mx facility for Pinnacle, so look to see more PCL flying out of FWA than XJ flying. Same goes for TYS and SBN. I don't know why NW and XJ do some of the things they do... I stopped trying to figure it out. Things will get better at Mesaba as soon as the pilot contract is settled. But until then, we'll be the one "regional" moving in the other direction o the rest, all the while making money and doing everything else right.


AZJ

I know of a J. Sokol, but have never flown with him.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7350 posts, RR: 28
Reply 22, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1239 times:

AZJ - Nope, I'm still here for another year...I was on internship for a semester last year ago and I'm also working on a minor, thus adds up to an extra year. Thats ok though, as the saying goes around here, "Graduating in 4 years is like leaving a party at 10pm" Good thing I've got another year, since the job market and the economy is still in the crapper.

Which domicle you switching to?

Have any plans been finalized for the redesign of C and the extension on B in DTW? Weren't they planning on starting construction this fall or in the spring?

(Figure I better though in something relevant to the topic at hand here in the meantime)


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1127 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1216 times:
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AZJ--

Thanks for the very complete replies. I always greatly enjoy my flights with Mesaba up to our cottage a few miles from CMX, and I hope things work out so the Saabs can be replaced by RJ's as the older ones go off lease and put out to pasture.

Tonight my daughter flew in from YUL to MSP. DC9-30 with about 10pax.

It looks like the Avros start up again on or about Dec 17.

How are load factors on this route this time of the year? Or is this a route that would definely benefit this time of the year if Mesaba had a 44 or 50 pax jet?

Frankly at this time of the year I would me more comfortable with a Mesaba crew operating MSP-YUL than a Memphis operation!! You land enough times in cold weather and snow and some of that experience has to rub off!



The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineFLYYUL From Italy, joined Jun 2000, 4952 posts, RR: 51
Reply 24, posted (11 years 4 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 1194 times:

Coronado, I work for NW at YUL, and I can tell you that YUL-MSP is a full boat come summer time, two times daily. Unfortunately come winter, the MSP flights are much less in demand. But so is everything, including DTW from this city. And come christmas time, the AVRO's to and back from MSP are full from YUL based on the loads that I have looked at.

YYZ or YYC-MSP dont offer anything better during this time of year...

Mark


25 Azjubilee : PSU - CVG is the new base Corronado - Our resident NW YUL expert answered perfectly regarding YUL loads. I flew DTW-YUL overnight YUL-MSP last winter
26 Post contains images FLYYUL : Butwith CRJ, you lose the huge J demand. There are many many high-yield pax on our afternoon flights to DTW and MSP, 3 of which are regulars, every th
27 CV640 : As it has already been stated, Mesaba is a commuter that provides feed for NWA. They are indpendently owned, although NWA does have about a third owne
28 Azjubilee : I don't doubt the demand for high yielding pax out of YUL. But I think NW has a bigger picture issue to look at, especialy with us in contract negotia
29 Post contains images FLYYUL : Absolutely.. but I do believe that YUL-MSP will remain a Northwest route, and perhaps in the slower months, a Mesaba route.. at least thats what my ma
30 Theiler : Coronado, Just out of curiousity, where abouts is your cabin at in the UP?? My family has a place about 60 miles south of CMX. Nice area!!! I went to
31 CV640 : I don't think you'll see the CRJs in the UP any time soon. NWA seems to want to others are already flying RJs.
32 Azjubilee : FLYYUL - MSP-YUL will go to Mesaba in the winter. We got our bid packets today and I noticed some patterns with MSP-YUL turns on some of the lines. So
33 Coronado : My comment and concerns on the winter driving experience was actually referring to the Pinnacle which up until recently has very much been concentrate
34 Coronado : I recall the Shorts often needing volunteers to deplane and leaving the last couple rows empty caused by weight limits--a fair amount of heavy luggage
35 Coronado : FLY-YUL: We have met several McGill students who hail from WI, MN, NE that use the 2 daily YUL-MSP rotations, as well as their parents off to visit th
36 Post contains images FLYYUL : Sure... but as of Jun 1, Northwest is back The Mesaba ARJ is a stupid looking plane and im on it tommorow morning to DTW.. later
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Mesaba Union To Announce Concessions posted Mon Nov 27 2006 20:36:05 by KarlB737
Connecting From DL To NW At MSP posted Mon Nov 6 2006 07:31:41 by Copaair737
What Will Happen To NW's Saab 340s? posted Tue Sep 5 2006 02:22:16 by Af773atmsp
Judge Orders Mesaba, Unions To Keep Talking posted Fri May 12 2006 20:18:36 by KarlB737
Mesaba DTW Makes NW Look Bad 5-2-06 posted Thu May 4 2006 22:37:41 by Isitsafenow
Mesaba Labor To Informational Picket In 5 MN Towns posted Wed Apr 12 2006 02:52:17 by KarlB737
Mesaba Seeks To Close Some Bankruptcy Proceedings posted Wed Feb 22 2006 20:51:43 by KarlB737
Mesaba Management To Get $2.2 MIL Bonus Summer '06 posted Thu Jan 12 2006 18:41:37 by LUVRSW
Report: Mesaba's Fleet To Shrink posted Wed Jan 11 2006 23:13:01 by TOLtommy
Mesaba Pilots To Picket On Monday At MSP, MEM, DTW posted Fri Dec 16 2005 23:14:33 by KarlB737